Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sodan's Statement Regarding the Death of the DE Hybrid Plan
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Sodan-droiddreamer
Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:22 pm
#1
First of all, I want to thank all the people that helped put the Hybrid DE plan together. I planted the seed but it was cultivated by others. I think it is admirable that the dabate was largley positive and focused. Many of those who lodged objections did so in a constuctive manner, or at least were able to agree to disagree.
I think the lesson learned, however, is that 40+ pages of discussion and voting do not even warrant a response or explaination from the Devs. They'll just trot out TK with the bad news. No explication of how the plan could be fixed, nothing. This silence in the face of constructive feedback from the community is an affront to the community.
Personally, this plan was my last-ditch hope to save the DE profession and make SWG resemble the Star Wars universe we love much. I tried. I poured my energy into it. Ultimately, the Devs rejected the idea and that's fine with me. hey, at leat we tried.
That said, my contribution to the Hybrid DE plan marks the end of my substantive contribution to the DE forum. I've been here with many of you for a long time and seen thousands of discussion threads, polls, and bugs go ignored. Case in point: the latest "gee, what are your top five issues" thread. I'm with Kollos on that one. We already answered that question a thousand times over.
I'll close my comments with a nice metaphor: The DE Toolset. This little crap from the dev's imagination is the ONLY new DE content added since game launch (sorry, optimists, bug fixes aren't new content). It can only be constructed using a Droid Repair Tool -- an item that is not only no longer craftable in the game, but never worked to begin with. As if that wasn't bad enough, people are reporting that even with a non-existantDroid Repair Tool the DE Toolset cannot be crafted. To round off and make perfect the metphor, all you have to do is add to this the fact that the DE Toolset is bandoleer and cannot be worn with abackpack. Wearing a backpack is essential given the number of components, subcomponents and varied resources are needed for crafting. So there you have it: The DE Toolset, a mataphor for the Dev's mishandling of the DE profession.
Anyway, I will be around, but I see no point further contributing ideas that will only be ignored by devs who think, literally, that they have bent over backwards for us. Sweet dreams and thanks for all the laughs.
DigitalOne
Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:35 pm
#2
Sorry Sodon, i know i wasnt a 100% fan of your plan, but it hurts to see it dead. Your plan had alot of potenial, and was definatly the most serious and ambitious plan ive seen to date. Thanks for your time and effort Sodon.
Sodan-droiddreamer
Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:37 pm
#3
Thanks for your contribution to it, man.
DigitalOne wrote:
Sorry Sodon, i know i wasnt a 100% fan of your plan, but it hurts to see it dead. Your plan had alot of potenial, and was definatly the most serious and ambitious plan ive seen to date. Thanks for your time and effort Sodon.
DigitalOne
Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:42 pm
#4
You'd think the Devs would be willing to iron out some ballance issues instead of blowing the whole idea off. I think they feel threatend by better ideas then they could come up with.
RotorofCorRng
Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:45 pm
#5
[quote]I think the lesson learned, however, is that 40+ pages of discussion and voting do not even warrant a response or explaination from the Devs. They'll just trot out TK with the bad news. No explication of how the plan could be fixed, nothing. This silence in the face of constructive feedback from the community is an affront to the community.[/quote]
Amen!
Amen!
OrionsByte
Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:12 pm
#6
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
I think the lesson learned, however, is that 40+ pages of discussion and voting do not even warrant a response or explaination from the Devs. They'll just trot out TK with the bad news. No explication of how the plan could be fixed, nothing. This silence in the face of constructive feedback from the community is an affront to the community.
First of all Sodan, I'm sorry to see you're giving up, but I can definately understand why. However, the statement above is akin to writing a letter to your congressman or representative (or the comparable official of whatever political system you may be a part of) and expecting a personal hand-written response. No matter how much merit your idea has, no matter how well it's worded, chances are you'll get some sort of form letter. If your submission has a lot of support, you might get a dictated letter from a secretary, but it's highly unlikely that that politician is going to sit down and write to you him- or herself. They've got other things to be working on.
That being said, I'd have to point out that there is an aweful lot of politics to all of this. It's not that they want to "save face" as Thees was implying, but it's that there's alot more going on behind the scenes that we're not aware of. Again, it's just like looking at a government... the people may be crying for one thing, and crying loud, but the leaders of that government see a lot of things that the public doesn't see... and their decisions are based on much on those things as onpublic opinion(at least, one would hope).
I kind of have the same attitude here. I may not agree with everything the devs decide, and I may have a completely different opinion, but I also recognize that there's a lot going on to make this game happen that I can not, and will not, be privy too. Politicians make decisions that will affect whether or not they are re-elected. Game designers make decisions that affect whether or not people will continue to play the game. In both cases, if there's a decision that has to be made that goes against public opinion, then chances are there are good reasons for them. There would be no reason to make that decision otherwise. It would be foolish. The politician would be booted from office and the game designers would lose their market to a different game.
They know this too, I'm sure of it. I'm sure that when they make a decision like this they know it's going to piss people off and cost them some gamers. So why go through with it? Wouldn't it be easier just to do what the public wants? Well sure, from a public-relations standpoint, but if in the long run those changes or features make the game worse overall, well then in the long run you're going to lose even more gamers.
Alright, I've babbled long enough.
/salute Sodan
Argonlaser
Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:21 pm
#7
/salute
Sodan, you deserved a real response from the Dev's.
/Woody Protocol off
You want input DEV's ? Right....sure....uh huh....
Number of TH posts in the DE forum during March - 2
Number of TH posts in the Weaponsmith Forum in a single day in March - 12
/Woody Protocol on
Edsoni,Metallic-CH Wanderhome
Salinah
Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:02 pm
#8
OrionsByte wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
I think the lesson learned, however, is that 40+ pages of discussion and voting do not even warrant a response or explaination from the Devs. They'll just trot out TK with the bad news. No explication of how the plan could be fixed, nothing. This silence in the face of constructive feedback from the community is an affront to the community.
First of all Sodan, I'm sorry to see you're giving up, but I can definately understand why. However, the statement above is akin to writing a letter to your congressman or representative (or the comparable official of whatever political system you may be a part of) and expecting a personal hand-written response. No matter how much merit your idea has, no matter how well it's worded, chances are you'll get some sort of form letter. If your submission has a lot of support, you might get a dictated letter from a secretary, but it's highly unlikely that that politician is going to sit down and write to you him- or herself. They've got other things to be working on.
I disagree 110% with your analogy. we are dealing with a company, that produces a product. NOT a goverment,SOE has people like TH that are supposed to talk to us.. isn't that his job? he's not a programer, that's for certain. I have played mmorphs for alot of years (more then I'm willing toadmit) and the total lack of communication is the worst I have ever incountered. Please TRY and remember, they asked for ideas from the community.. we gave them one. they refused it, and gave no explaination why....
That being said, I'd have to point out that there is an aweful lot of politics to all of this. It's not that they want to "save face" as Thees was implying, but it's that there's alot more going on behind the scenes that we're not aware of. Again, it's just like looking at a government... the people may be crying for one thing, and crying loud, but the leaders of that government see a lot of things that the public doesn't see... and their decisions are based on much on those things as onpublic opinion(at least, one would hope).
I really really hatewhen people say "There is more going on behind the scenes the we're not aware of" that is SUCH a cop-out.. Again your goverment analogy just doesn't apply... can we stop paying taxes? we CAN stop playing SWG and that is a FACT they have to take into account. If they don't at least give the apearance of carring about DE or SWG then it will eventually go the way of Space and Beyond.. it's just a fact.. WE know what's fun to play.. if SOE continues to make chioces based on "behind the scenes political pressure" and ignoring the player base, frankly we won't stay, alot of new games are coming out.
kind of have the same attitude here. I may not agree with everything the devs decide, and I may have a completely different opinion, but I also recognize that there's a lot going on to make this game happen that I can not, and will not, be privy too. Politicians make decisions that will affect whether or not they are re-elected. Game designers make decisions that affect whether or not people will continue to play the game. In both cases, if there's a decision that has to be made that goes against public opinion, then chances are there are good reasons for them. There would be no reason to make that decision otherwise. It would be foolish. The politician would be booted from office and the game designers would lose their market to a different game.
Yes they continue to make Foolish dicisions and instead of replaceing the developers with more compentent ones, we suffer from bad programing and programing chioces... HOW many times sense release has the communitie as a whole begged them to "fix the bugs in DE before adding new content"... more times than i could easly count.. that's just bad business and leaves US feeling like we bought a Lemon
They know this too, I'm sure of it. I'm sure that when they make a decision like this they know it's going to piss people off and cost them some gamers. So why go through with it? Wouldn't it be easier just to do what the public wants? Well sure, from a public-relations standpoint, but if in the long run those changes or features make the game worse overall, well then in the long run you're going to lose even more gamers.
Alright, I've babbled long enough.
/salute Sodan
Sorry for the Rant perhaps even alittle flame.. it's my very first.. I'm just gettingso frustrated and i'm SICK and TIRED of hearing Spin Control, excuses and all the other BS we have been fed. Feeling better, even though only my brothers and Sister in DE will ever see this post and understand where i'm coming from... personally, I'lll be around untell a new game comes out that offers a good crafting system like swg has, I love that aspect so much... i'm just sad/mad they treat us like dirt so much 
/appologize(not personal)
Saleena
MDE
DENet - Admin - Chilastra
AudioOrgana
Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:32 pm
#9
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Anyway, I will be around, but I see no point further contributing ideas that will only be ignored by devs who think, literally, that they have bent over backwards for us. Sweet dreams and thanks for all the laughs.
Gee, did alittle gnort tell you that? 
And yet another valuable member bytes the dust...
Someone should start a thread to track all these Good-bye threads - but it's too much to hope that anyone would read them and take them to heart.
What a sad, sad state this profession is in.
AO
Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 04-02-2004 09:45 PM
AudioOrgana
Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:43 pm
#10
OrionsByte wrote:
First of all Sodan, I'm sorry to see you're giving up, but I can definately understand why. However, the statement above is akin to writing a letter to your congressman or representative (or the comparable official of whatever political system you may be a part of) and expecting a personal hand-written response. No matter how much merit your idea has, no matter how well it's worded, chances are you'll get some sort of form letter. If your submission has a lot of support, you might get a dictated letter from a secretary, but it's highly unlikely that that politician is going to sit down and write to you him- or herself. They've got other things to be working on.
THEN WHY DO THEY PRETEND TO WANT OUR INPUT IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Why is it in every single interview I read from anyone on this project all they can talk about is how responsive and concerned they are when it comes to the "community"?
If my congressman ran around saying he listened and responded to his community directly, often, and with sincerity, and then ran for the hills and sent the assistant to his assistant's assistant down to say, "sorry, the 40 pages of proposal and support, not to mention the countless hundreds of pages of ideas and fixes we have requested for so long and patiently repeated for you over and over, are being ignored, and we'll see you after the space expansion", I'd certainly make sure that congressman never got reelected again.
I will admit, that twice in recent history they have listened to us : with camp restrictions and the experimentation changes. However, they have continued to ignore the specific issues of DE's in favor of adding things we do not want while somehow managing to actively, yet stealthly, nerf us once a patch in one way or another. Count the number of nerfs as opposed to bug fixes and, hold your breath, the actual utility modules we have begged for since this all began nine months ago?
I'm sorry, but it just saddens me to no end how nine months into this, those DE's like me who got their master title and have never even dropped it once and stuck by this profession get told, "Bah, should have known better! No fix for you! End of the line! See you way after Space Expansion!" we wouldn't have wasted our money or time on such a bold-faced joke played on unsuspecting players that just wanted one simple thing : droids that other players wanted to use. A lot.
AO
Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 04-02-2004 09:47 PM
Shian_Tavkin
Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:51 pm
#11
Sodan
We all did our very best, with no helpful input, and no critical comment along the way. The only fault in this is the Devs total lack of connectivity with players, a feature of this game everywhere, but most noticable here.
Be Proud, because you largely did what couldn't be done, unite all of us.
There will never be another consensus like this, and for that I am truly sad.
There really is no point in continuing to make a go of the profession, especially for us who have been here so long. Let the new dissaponted DE's pick up the cudgel, but they should know it will do them no good.
I honestly thought this one had a fair chance to fly, because it was good. They havn't even got the b-alls to say why it isn't, and worse, they make poor TK announce it. It is appalling customer service and I, not being shy to speak Anglo-Saxon, say they are, to a man, Tossers.
Things will develop, and I'll still be around for a bit, but this is too much to bear.
Well Done my man, and don't ever think otherwise. It's them who let you and us down, and for no good reason.
They none of them play this game, they none of them understand the meaning of balance, and they all get paid a fortune. It is laughable really, once you have gone over the edge.
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