Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Hybrid DE Discussion: Droid Tactician Exp
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Sodan-droiddreamer
Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:11 pm
#1
Another issue for discussion in the Hybrid Droid Engineer plan is experience. Specifically, what type of exp should be required to grind up to maximum droid certs?
Currently, the most popular Variant of the plan calls for Ranged Support 4 in the Marksman tree which requires Combat Exp which is harder to get then, say, pistol exp. Grinding up to 0040 DE requires general crafting exp for Engineering 4 and Novice DE and then droid crafting exp.
Some have suggested that a new form of exp should be created and required -- Droid Combat Exp which would be identicle to Pet Combat Exp that CHs must gain. Some have suggested that this be required for 0040 DE while others have suggested that either DE Craftign exp or Droid Combat Exp be required. CHs get this exp by attacking mobs with their pets.
My personal take is that the plan is fine as-is. Pure crafters should NOT be required to gain ANY combat exp to grind to MDE. And either/or requirement might be ok, but this is a whole new concept to the game system and seems unlikely to be implemented -- though I would love it if they did. The beauty of the plan, however, is to preserve the status quo while adding easily replicable mechanics already in the game. Lets make it easy for the devs.
All comments on this topic are welcome. The purpose is to gather your opinion, not to flame anyone. This plan is flexible and we need community input and support to make it happen.
If you have already commented on this topic, pls cross-post here.
The original Hybrid DE plan is at:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=68465
The VOTING thread is at:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=69111
Pls review the whole proposal at the VOTING thread. NO DISCUSSION on the voting thread. Discussion here is encouraged.
Alacrity
Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:22 pm
#2
Well... the proposal is to modify the existing all-Crafting DE profession to a Crafting/Combat Hybrid profession... I don't think it'd be too much to ask to require Droid Combat XP for that branch of the DE tree. I want to be a Hybrid, however, so I'd do whatever was required. A "pure" crafter might object though.
So, make that "Variant #5" and add it to the formal proposal. 
Sodan-droiddreamer
Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:34 pm
#3
Fair enough. We'll make that a variant.
Alacrity wrote:
Well... the proposal is to modify the existing all-Crafting DE profession to a Crafting/Combat Hybrid profession... I don't think it'd be too much to ask to require Droid Combat XP for that branch of the DE tree. I want to be a Hybrid, however, so I'd do whatever was required. A "pure" crafter might object though.
So, make that "Variant #5" and add it to the formal proposal.
Sodan-droiddreamer
Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:35 pm
#4
Not to the existing plan, but to a Revised 3.0 plan that we will submit to the devs.
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Fair enough. We'll make that a variant.
Alacrity wrote:
Well... the proposal is to modify the existing all-Crafting DE profession to a Crafting/Combat Hybrid profession... I don't think it'd be too much to ask to require Droid Combat XP for that branch of the DE tree. I want to be a Hybrid, however, so I'd do whatever was required. A "pure" crafter might object though.
So, make that "Variant #5" and add it to the formal proposal.
Lonkley
Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:37 pm
#5
For simplicity its better to leave it alone.
Otherwise, they would need to create the new xp system and grandfather current DE's, or would we be willing to loose that branch? (Honestly, if thats what it required for the new system, id have no problem wiht having them yank the skills. This would be pretty harsh for the crafter who never wants to do combat. Though even under the term "pure crafter" the pure crafters still have weapon skills (it seems), i think they are more concerned about whose selling than anything.
Also to note, can you imagine asking a dabbler to grind MSE to 0040? More likely they will go 0042 and drop blueprints.
Im good whatever way they go.
Sodan-droiddreamer
Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:39 pm
#6
Good point. "Either/or" allows a dabbler to grind using combat not crafting.
Lonkley wrote:
For simplicity its better to leave it alone.
Otherwise, they would need to create the new xp system and grandfather current DE's, or would we be willing to loose that branch? (Honestly, if thats what it required for the new system, id have no problem wiht having them yank the skills. This would be pretty harsh for the crafter who never wants to do combat. Though even under the term "pure crafter" the pure crafters still have weapon skills (it seems), i think they are more concerned about whose selling than anything.
Also to note, can you imagine asking a dabbler to grind MSE to 0040? More likely they will go 0042 and drop blueprints.
Im good whatever way they go.
Virtanis
Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:49 pm
#7
/exits lurk mode...
I prefer it left as is. If we take the topic of droid combat xp, for example, you's start acquiring your droid combat xp with a CL10 droid.
As soon as you get the next box, then you'd probably graduate to the CL15 droid that you just unlocked.
Then 20... Then 25... or whatever the limit of the tree is... Yeah you could tinker with the xp requirements per box, but you have toassume people will try to get the most powerful droid at each step (to hasten their climb up the tree), then that tree is going to have huge xp requirements.
I dunno, it sounds nice in theory, but any additional monkey wrenchesthrown into the works will probably be poorly received by that bastion of free and flexible thought: SOE.
Icarus-6
Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:54 pm
#8
I think we pretty much have to leave the XP alone. It's the same reason that the Devs can't change the prereqs for a profession. If they were to change the type of XP required then they are forced into a position of doing something that some group will consider unfair. If they cut the skills from all DEs and make them re-earn the boxes a lot of us are going to be really cranky (me included). On the other hand if they just give it to us then some of the people who come along later will complain that it is unfair.
Sodan-droiddreamer
Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:05 pm
#9
Thank you! I agree with this summary. One change is that I don't think there is a "problem" with #1 -- its a feature that people wanting combat droids will have to get to know them by crafting. In dev-speak that means no free checkers and a significant time/resource investment.
EnigmaBSc wrote:
To sum up the problems with different approaches, as I see them:
1. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid crafting xp, then dabblers will have to craft large numbers of droids just to be able to use droids.
2. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid combat xp gained from fighting with a droid then pure crafters will have to fight to gain Master Droid Engineer. Also a problem of existing Masters - do they keep or lose the tree?
3. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid crafting xp OR droid combat xp (i.e. you can progress with either of them) then we have added a new game mechanic and have complicated the implementation.
4. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid combat xp gained from fighting with a droid OR crafting a combat droid/module then we have complicated the implementation - the xp granted by combat droids/modules must be changed. Also a problem of existing Masters - do they keep or lose the tree?
My personal favourite is number 4, is makes more sense to me and favours neither crafters not fighters. I would also be happy with those who already have the tree or parts thereof keeping it. However, I recognise that since it has an increase implementation cost it may be best to offer as a 'this is what I'd really like, but only if it's easy enough for the devs to implement without taking up time that could be used for something more valuable'. I'd much rather see 'Sodan's DE proposal 3.0™' with option 1 than no 'Sodan's DE proposal 3.0™' at all.
duncje
Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:02 am
#10
CH's get xp by more than just combat with pets. They get xp by taming, training, etc.To limit DE to one tree of purely combat xp would eliminate pure crafters, which is a necessity by this planto build droids for the dabblers.
I'd say keep it as is, or maybe add the option to do either/or.
Mightion
Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:17 am
#11
I raised the point about crafting EXP being used to still go up the refinement tree under the plan, but I'm going to say to leave it as it is now. Imagine the outcry if every Master DE suddenly wasn't, due to an empty refinement/tactician tree. 
Not pretty. 
EnigmaBSc
Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:42 am
#12
To sum up the problems with different approaches, as I see them:
1. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid crafting xp, then dabblers will have to craft large numbers of droids just to be able to use droids.
2. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid combat xp gained from fighting with a droid then pure crafters will have to fight to gain Master Droid Engineer. Also a problem of existing Masters - do they keep or lose the tree?
3. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid crafting xp OR droid combat xp (i.e. you can progress with either of them) then we have added a new game mechanic and have complicated the implementation.
4. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid combat xp gained from fighting with a droid OR crafting a combat droid/module then we have complicated the implementation - the xp granted by combat droids/modules must be changed. Also a problem of existing Masters - do they keep or lose the tree?
My personal favourite is number 4, is makes more sense to me and favours neither crafters not fighters. I would also be happy with those who already have the tree or parts thereof keeping it. However, I recognise that since it has an increase implementation cost it may be best to offer as a 'this is what I'd really like, but only if it's easy enough for the devs to implement without taking up time that could be used for something more valuable'. I'd much rather see 'Sodan's DE proposal 3.0™' with option 1 than no 'Sodan's DE proposal 3.0™' at all.
1. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid crafting xp, then dabblers will have to craft large numbers of droids just to be able to use droids.
2. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid combat xp gained from fighting with a droid then pure crafters will have to fight to gain Master Droid Engineer. Also a problem of existing Masters - do they keep or lose the tree?
3. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid crafting xp OR droid combat xp (i.e. you can progress with either of them) then we have added a new game mechanic and have complicated the implementation.
4. If the Droid Tactics tree requires droid combat xp gained from fighting with a droid OR crafting a combat droid/module then we have complicated the implementation - the xp granted by combat droids/modules must be changed. Also a problem of existing Masters - do they keep or lose the tree?
My personal favourite is number 4, is makes more sense to me and favours neither crafters not fighters. I would also be happy with those who already have the tree or parts thereof keeping it. However, I recognise that since it has an increase implementation cost it may be best to offer as a 'this is what I'd really like, but only if it's easy enough for the devs to implement without taking up time that could be used for something more valuable'. I'd much rather see 'Sodan's DE proposal 3.0™' with option 1 than no 'Sodan's DE proposal 3.0™' at all.
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