Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Jeez, did they have to make US get all those new resources!!
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LonelyGhost
Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:16 pm
#1
I was looking down the list of new resources, and holy friggin cow! It seems every single new schematic we get has a requiremnt for some freaky resource that has never been "noticed" before.
I like that they are making some of the MANY resource types useful, but come on!They picked resources that are almost ALWAYS crappy becuase of stat gating!
(stats of the best average spawn)
Agrinium Aluminum -(522 899 552 536 849 739 624 653)
Baradium Amorphous Gemstone - 3 spawns since launch on Tempest, (166 156 105 679 133 684 231 72)
Cubirian Steel - (226 167 643 678 71 890 590 575)
Dantooine Fiberplast
Ionite Intrusive Ore - a SINGLE spawn on Tempest, but t least it had good stats (837 861 926 507 932 938 851)
Keschel Extrusive Ore -this one aint bad (539 624 699 226 962 661 630)
Cubirian Steel - (226 167 643 678 71 890 590 575)
Dantooine Fiberplast
Ionite Intrusive Ore - a SINGLE spawn on Tempest, but t least it had good stats (837 861 926 507 932 938 851)
Keschel Extrusive Ore -this one aint bad (539 624 699 226 962 661 630)
The rest have had a decent number of spawns and some with okay stats, but will be hard to come by because up to now no one has bothered holding it.
Known Solid Petrochem Fuel
Malab Siliclastic Ore
Orweth Reactive Gas
Pholokite Extrusive Ore
Platinite Copper
Plexite Amorphous Gemstone
Rori Fiberplast
Vendusii Crystal Amorphous Gemstone
Known Liquid Petrochemical Fuel
All in all, I think they ought to have cut in half the numbe rof name-specific resources added in this single patch.
Jenden
Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:53 pm
#2
Its not nearly as bad as it looks, since at most you'll only need 4-6 of those new resources. I doubt you'll ever build many repair kits since they're DE only, and when you do you really don't need that high of stats on them since droids don't take wounds that fast (and a repair module will heal them all up instantly).
For the repair kits, if you get pretty good resources for D's you should be fine, if you can only get crappy resources all you need is another 2-4 resources for 1-2 of the advanced parts to get it up to what you want.
As for the gated resources, that is taken into account in the crafting system. If a resource's max quality used is 500 and the part should be able to go up to a rating of 50 (just using imaginary anonimous resources and parts), then max rating will actually be 100, allowing you to get up to 50 with the best quality resources.
Shian_Tavkin
Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:42 pm
#3
Jenden wrote:
As for the gated resources, that is taken into account in the crafting system. If a resource's max quality used is 500 and the part should be able to go up to a rating of 50 (just using imaginary anonimous resources and parts), then max rating will actually be 100, allowing you to get up to 50 with the best quality resources.
Jenden, this is the first time I have ever seen this stated, that the 'craft system takes care of it'.
So, just to be clear, are you saying that the crafting system is aware of all the resource stat caps and adjusts results accordingly? I have trouble believing that.
If the best conductivity mineral in the game was CD 500 and you were crafting a product with the only meaningful stat being 100% conductivity required, surely you are not saying that the crafting system knows the best mineral is CD500 and would therefore allow a 100% result?
If you dont mean that, then I dont really see how your answer responds to the original posters concerns, in this respect at least, that gated resources inhibit crafting.
Maybe I missed something?
Jenden
Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:09 pm
#4
Its not actually the crafting system itself, it is hard coded into the software by the devs. I remember JustG or Runesaber had a post about this on the WS forums a couple weeks ago. This was the main thing that people had problems with in the new experimentation system they were working on (since the experimentation was based on the theoretical maximums and not the practical maximums). Anyway, I think the example he used was if you had a weapon that was supposed to have a max damage of 100 who's damage was dependent on strictly conductivity and used only iron with a capped conductivity of 500, the actual maximum value used is 200, so if you get the maximum (50%), you hit the 100 damage mark that is supposed to be the maximum.
EnigmaBSc
Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:35 pm
#5
The post about the system compensating for resource caps was the initial crafting experimentation change post:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dev_archive&message.id=24205#M24205
Of which the relevant two paragraphs are:
I also particularly liked Virtanis' parody of this (http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=70976)
EnigmaBSc
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dev_archive&message.id=24205#M24205
Of which the relevant two paragraphs are:
Original Post:One valid concern that has been raised with regards to this issue is that there are certain resources that are required for higher-end draft schematics that have capped qualities. For example, a certain item that has a dependency on conductivity might require Plumbum Iron as a resource component. The trouble with this being that ferrous metals, and specifically iron, will most always have poor conductivity (and realistically so). The perceived result of this is that any experimentation line that depends on conductivity can never be raised to an acceptable level. It is important to note that we are and have been aware of draft schematics like this. In such cases, we have artificially inflated the maximum values in the draft schematic for attributes that depend on the capped resources, so that the end result is in line with the expected values.
That may be a little confusing to follow so I will try to explain a little better with an example. Very simply, say that you have a weapon, and we want the maximum damage for that weapon to be no less than 50, and no greater than 100. Say that experimentation for maximum damage depends on conductivity, and the schematic requires iron and aluminum. For the sake of argument, let's say that the iron conductivity is capped at 10% of resource maximum, and aluminum conductivity is capped at 90% of resource maximum. When these two resources are used in crafting the item, the maximum conductivity possible is averaged out to be 50%. With this in mind, we have set the range of values for max damage on this weapon to be 50 to 200. The result of this is that with the maximum conductivity possible with these hypothetical capped resources (50%) the maximum damage that can be achieved with this weapon is what we wanted it to be (200 x 50% = 100). These artificially inflated values are not new in Publish Seven; these have been around since the launch of the game. In short, it is a valid concern, but it is one that we have always been aware of, and took steps to address in the original implementation.
I also particularly liked Virtanis' parody of this (http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=70976)
Original Post by Virtanis:That may be a little confusing to follow so I will try to explain a little better with an example. Very simply, say that you have an Advanced R4 droid, and we want the maximum effectiveness for that droid to be no less than 50, and no greater than 100. Say that experimentation for *whatever* depends on conductivity, and the final assembly requires only subcomponents, and no resources. For the sake of argument, let's say that iron conductivity is capped at 10% of resource maximum, and aluminum conductivity is capped at 90% of resource maximum, just for sake of clarity. If these two resources are used in crafting the item, but they aren't... nothing is, the maximum conductivity possible is averaged out to be 50%. With this in mind, we have set the range of values for max *whatever* on this droid to be 0. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The result of this is that with the maximum conductivity possible with these hypothetical capped resources (50%) used in the hypothetical building of this droid which requires no resources in the final assembly, the maximum *whatever* that can be achieved with this droid is what we wanted it to be (50% x 0 = 0)!
EnigmaBSc
LonelyGhost
Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:12 pm
#6
I just started running factories on the new components, and noticed the low number of units per...so thats not too bad. Just for clarification is anyone is interested (and I'm sure you're not, heheheh) I was a MDE fora few months up until a couple weeks before P6. I got out cause I saw nothing interesting happenning. So now I'm dusting off my stuff, discovering the various crates and resources I had stored. I got a little disenchanted when at first it looked like I wasn't gonna be able to make any of the new stuff yet. I still have to go drop a harv on Rori plast tonight. ANd I gotta track down some Plexite and Baradium gems. But its kinda fun seeing new schematics in the crafting tool.
Shian_Tavkin
Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:59 pm
#7
Jenden - Thank you for your reply
Enigma - Thank you too, I have to admit I missed the detailed explaination, but I did see Viranis's reply 
I do understand it now, so I suppose the only question left is: since they pulled the crafting change, is the compensation still in, or was that only in the new system? Does anybody know?
Heaven help new players eh?
Jenden
Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:02 pm
#8
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
Jenden - Thank you for your reply
Enigma - Thank you too, I have to admit I missed the detailed explaination, but I did see Viranis's reply
I do understand it now, so I suppose the only question left is: since they pulled the crafting change, is the compensation still in, or was that only in the new system? Does anybody know?
Heaven help new players eh?
I'm pretty sure this system is independent of those crafting changes, and actually it was the fact that this system didn't work under the new crafting system.
LonelyGhost
Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:51 am
#9
They certailnly did make it hard for a new person to get into this business. The only resources I am missing are Dant and Rori plast (Rori I have a couple harvs on already), and Vendusii and Baradium gems. The V gem is active right now, so I'll get enough to play with. the B gem will be much harder to find.
Imagine being a new DE without any of these resources. I'm of the opinion that the Damage and Wound kits shoudl not have any name-specific resources. They aren't *THAT* useful...well, maybe the Damage ones are, but the Wound packs are kinda dumb. No need for such intense crafting requirements. But then, you could always just make B or C packs without any advanced parts, hehehe.
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