Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: DE from a not DE perspective

LordNefarious
Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:10 am
#1


We have to have a little chat...


I have been talking to my guilds Master DE and he seems pretty upset about some things that are comming down the pike, and I have to say I agree with him. There are some serious issues that you are pushing here that from the sound of it none of the DE want, and I as a member outside the DE profession dont want either. I think if you look at the issues and poll the community your going to see that not a lot of people want it.


Heres Why:


Droids are a legacy in Star Wars. They are seen every where and in this universe not to own a droid is almost unheard of. The thought that a Droid handler profession is insane, or to use TH term "Droid Master" which is a glorified term for Droid Handler. These are not animals. You do not need extensive knowledge to control a droid.


Droids are machines programed to perform a set of task that are intiated by a sentient they recognize as their master. When that master give them an order, they perform it to the best of their ability and where the programing they have allows. The example I gave to my guild, and I will use here:


If a DE builds a shiny new HK-47 assassin droid and transfers its ownership over to a child for its birthday, the Droid now understands that the child is its master. The child, knowing little of the destructive power this droid is capable of, simply sees his new droid as a playmate. The child, being simple minded, asks the droid to play hide and seek, telling it to shut down its eyes count to 10 then come find him. This is not outside the capability of the droid, for it can count, walk, and seek something out. The result? One of the fiercest battle droids ever created plays hide and seek. Why? because it was ordered to by its master. Not a Droid handler, er excuse me "Droid Master", but by a small child wanting a playmate. Droids take and recieve commands because thats what they are programed to do. You dont have to worry like you do with a wild animal, where you might lose control and attack. The only way this would happen is if there was faulty programing or building on the DE part.


In SW, droids are very intelligent and over time learn to be self aware, and may develop personalities, such as R2-D2. This may or maynot be suitable to the owner. If you find the personality to be attractive on your droid, you live with it. If you dont you take it back to the DE, wipe its memory and once again you are in full control. Its for this reason alone that I can think that the Devs want a Droid Handler, er.. "Droid Master" profession. However for the reason I just stated, you take the droid back have it wiped and re programed. If you ever run into problems with a droid not responding, this task will fix that.


Therefore based on the arguments I just presented, I think its clear that Droids in SW are for everyone. And I mean Everyone. If you can bone up the creds for them, they now become your property and follow your orders unconditionally. In the early stages, I remember the devs stating that droids would not be a Player Species simply because you wouldnt want a bunch of rogue robots runnig around. Yet no one can use them unless you invest points into actually being able to control them with this new system. Very un-Star Wars if you ask me, and I think that getting as close to the Star warsy feel is what we were going for.


Now you come to the balance issue. I can see it now " if every one can control droids then would they not pick the most elite fighter droid or craft droid, etc" This would be true. People would use the droid that would best suit their profession, and the top of the line one at that. This is where my guilds DE posted something that I think could be considered.


Weapons have certs. As much as I fought for them to be banished in beta, they have them. So I know if I see someone holding a lightning rifle, they either are an imposter or a BH. Now most of the time people have their professions posted above their head, which is a totally seperate issue that I dont want to get into, but you can tell by the weapon that they are using what skill they hold. All you have to do is follow said player for a few minutes until they actually attack something. This will clear out the imposters. If I see someone with a DX2, and the shoot a nearby chuba, if it drops they are a pistoleer. Its that easy. Most imposters wont jeopardies their life in the field, so they will either switch weapons or do no damage.


To get to the point. Where I dont agree with the certs for weapons, droids may be better suited for this kind of system. Professions often require assistance and droids provide that assistance. If you make a cert system that allows professions access to droids that can help them, and the higher you are on that profession the better the droid you can own.


For Example: I as a working Commando would like some support in the field. Now I'm not a droid expert so you DE will have to excuse my ignorance, but as one attains novice commando, I would get a cert for a battle droid. Very basic model, equipable with a blaster rifle (this is another issue, droids that can carry weapons should be equipable by the player with PC created guns), and adds support on the battle field. I would think that most master combat professions would be able to gain access to a combat droid, but for the point of my example this will do. The fine tuning could be dont in Test Center. Once I master one tree, or I master half of all tree (or some kind of half way point) I would gain access to a Droideka type droids with more fire power and a light shield. On obtaining master Commando I would get access to a advanced combat droid, something like an IG series assassin or something with rocket launchers, etc.


The point is it needs to be based on the profession and level. That is to say, as a commando I rely on heavy weapons so there for I would be comfortable using a droid with heavy battle capabilities, and perhaps equipable with my rocket lauchers as that is what I use in the field. These would be elite droids as these are elite professions. BH use droids already, but for them maybe a low level an HK series would be appropriate and then a IG series once they hit master. I speak for combat classes as thats what I know, but Im sure the same could be applied to medics and crafters.


Crafters would gain a droid that could speed up production, then later one that could produce multiple items at once. Medics could increase heal time, then later increase healing time while making stims simultaniously. Everyone should be able to benifit from droids. I just dont want to hit master commando and gain access to a advance binary lifter droid that I have no use for. It must be connected to the profession.


Lastly my guild DE possed a problem with this system. If such is the case, the the DE themselves wouldnt be able to test their craft, ie: they wouldnt have the certs to use the droids they created. A valid point. However as in my argument at the top the creators are the first master, therefore granting rights to use them as the droid will follow orders. SO once the DE gains the ability to make the droid he then can control and test the droid. Does this mean that a Master DE can own and operate a IG assassin droid even though they are not a BH? Yes, by all means, because as the droids crafter he understands the droid on a level that no one else can, regardless of profession. A BH might understand how to use a IG assassin droid, but the DE knows which wire triggers the optical response that tells the core CPU to pull the trigger on the blaster. I think that inside knowledge would allow DE to handle anything they can build.


One final note: Since DE have to dedicate a lot of time to their skill, I would allow them to control up to 3 droids at once like a Master CH could do, where all others would be using only 1. Dont like it? then become a DE. Thats why everyone went CH. I think it only fair.


Hopefully I didnt spend the last hour blowing hot air that the Devs will just ignore and push through what ever unjustified programming they feel like, and take some notes as to what the people really want. I encourage all those, DE and non-DE alike to post your opinions.


Lord Nefarious
Aet0s
Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:01 am
#2

doesn't this method of Droid cert only make the uber elite more uber powerful (then capable of soloing.. 2 red mobs instead of just 1 ?) while keeping the weak non-uberjust as weak and non-uber?


I think thats why Droid certs wouldn't work....


QuiGonJ
Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:39 am
#3

As a bioengineer, I just learned that problem firsthand... what's the use of making a 3000 HAM kaadu if only one class can use it? Turns out making anything with decent HAM pushes the creature to Level 12 or higher.

Making a Droid Handler just to keep the pet balance is only going to frustrate the DE class by limiting the market for their wares.



--------------------

Alan' Kazan
Warrant Officer II, Call Sign Alpha Six
11th Naval Fleet, 3rd Space Wing, 90th TIE Fighter Squadron
Master Shipwright of Darkforge Starships, 1k South of Bestine, Chilastra at -1227 -4596
deltabob00
Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:53 am
#4






QuiGonJ wrote:
As a bioengineer, I just learned that problem firsthand... what's the use of making a 3000 HAM kaadu if only one class can use it? Turns out making anything with decent HAM pushes the creature to Level 12 or higher.

Making a Droid Handler just to keep the pet balance is only going to frustrate the DE class by limiting the market for their wares.






This is exactly the problem we are facing. Add to that the fact that the BLL (Binary Load Lifter) is a CL 12 to begin with, that immediately rules it out for adding combat modules for a non-Droid Master. Also, we will have to wait and see if a non-Droid Master can use a droid greater than CL 10 if it isn't a combat droid - meaning we may lose the ability to use the (not-too useful anyway, but cool looking) BLL.


*sigh*




The ferret says, "Dook dook."
LordNefarious
Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:21 am
#5

Aet0s,


Im not sure what you consider "uber elite", but the fact is everyone is working towards what they consider and end goal, weither that be a combat class or a crafter, etc. If your goal is to be a master BH, then I think as such you should be able to gain a droid that can complement your skills. Make the droid have less HAM, or vulnerabilites, but its obvious that the devs wont let everyone have access to every type of droid out there. So there must be some kind of cert system or there will be market for only two types of droids.


And like QuiGonJ said, you are looking down the barrel of having only one client that will ever purchase your wares. Making DE not only a dead end job, but a very non-profitable one to boot.


Like I said Im not a DE, but as I see it the ones I know are getting fed up with the system. Making a DH profession just make the DE a function. A low grade class. Just like the BE unfortunately. If you cant genetically alter an animal to function to see you as its master then whats the point. Same with the DE. Personally though its two different beasts. I think that everyone should be able to have a droid of any type no matter what your profession. I would love to have a medical droid that follows me in the field and heals me everytime Im hurt. But it wont happen. The devs have seen to this. They dont want everyone to have droids. Its not SW but it is on par for SWG.


So yea, if certs makes it so the "uber elite" can use a droid, im for it. As it stands now, I am downed in PvP in 3 secs and Im a highly train commando. Being put down in 2.5 secs isnt going to matter much. In PvE there isnt much I cant handle with the right planning. Having an extra gun just opens up more options for me and allows me to immerse myself in SW, which means being able to own droids. Im pledging this for everyone. Say statements like this, and this is not a personaly attack, is like stating why can I use 3 creatures as a non CH. Why cant I use a rocket when im not a commando. If you feel one class is more uber then the other switch. You can make that choice. Personally I like to choose my playstyle not based on how uber a class is an if they can solo two red mobs but more by if i am having fun and playing what I want to play.


Having access to droids in SW was something I've been looking forward to for a long time, and if a moister farmercan own and operate a droid I think I should be able to as well.


LN


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