Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: DE Plan CONCERN Thread
CONCERN: I don't much care for the "all modules" model of droid functionality, because it makes the droids themselves almost incidental.
CONCERN: Most droids we make have a baseline 273 HAM. How will these droids be made effective in combat, even with top armor?
ONLY Droid Engineers will be able to make and use these modules.
CONCERN: Will probots cease to be combat capable for non-DEs?
CONCERN: How will combat droids be scaled to player ability? How will you prevent newbies from grinding to Novice DE within a few days so they can buy a droid with a L6 Combat Module?
Droid engineers should be able to take out more than one droid at a time, but only one combat droid.
CONCERN: Will droid engineers also be allowed to have a larger library of stored droids similar to the way CHs do?
The big challenge is integrating multi-droid controls.
CONCERN: Why is this so different from controlling multiple creatures?
We want to make the Droid AI so that it targets healers from time to time. Medical droids have a perception that they don’t work, so to change their functionality, the following additions could be made:
CONCERN: Whose perception? Do you mean surgical droids or droids with medical modules? The surgical droid is just another chassis, which is a problem, but droids with medical modules do what they are supposed to do. The major problem is that we constantly have to explain what they are supposed to do. It's less than intuitively obvious to most players.
* Add stim and health pack functionality
CONCERN: Steps on medics, but some medics have in the past said that these are the most annoying parts of their jobs and they wouldn't mind having droids take up some of the chore.
* Increase Medical Droid accessibility be letting them out of storage in more places that the are now
CONCERN: Potential for exploit by having a droid with both a combat and a medical module. This is another way in which the "modules" approach actually complicates things rather than simplifying them. You have to start thinking about what modules are OK to pull out in the field and which ones aren't. You can't pull out a medical+combat droid, but is a medical+chem.crafting droid okay? Med+data? Why or why not?
* Give reduced mind cost to medics
* Automatically stim incapacitated players
NON-CONCERN: These are both outstanding ideas.
We think all droids when they are used should take power and wound damage. This change is going to take a fair amount of balance planning and would be best supported if Repair Droids were reworked first.
CONCERN: Will we get some indicator of power? Possibly using the droid's mind bar as a power meter?
CONCERN: Wounds just through general use? Seems a little odd. Is this supposed to be a form of droid decay to give us repeat business? If so, it must be balanced VERY carefully to avoid driving players away from buying droids in the first place.
There is a perception that Power droids do not work. To address this, we could give Power Droids the ability to add power to a harvester and attach directly to the facility. Functionally, maintenance fees would go up a bit, but they would not require power. The Power Droid WOULD degrade over time and would have to be replaced.
CONCERN: One power droid per installation would be extremely cost-prohibitive. Due to droid datapad storage limitations, one could not keep a fleet of power droids around for structure power, and frankly power is too easy to obtain to make it more convenient to attach an expensive droid to some of one's installations. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but this is going to be a tough one to make fly such that it's really a useful benefit.
Therearentan wrote:
Need new, Stronger Combat Chasis for DE to be viable. CH gets 10k HAM pets with decent resistances at the cost of one Mastery, and half of a second. DE *must* master two to be at all effective, and the best option we've got is the 810 HAM Probot, or the 2k HAM BLL(Which shouldn't be a combat chasis under any circumstances). DE Droids should be >= CH top end pets d/t the cost of our class.
the difference is that DE is a crafting profession. to be able to make pets AND use them, a player has to use a whole ton more skillpoints than a DE. that should be reflected in the strength of the pets.
now, if youre suggesting a profession solely based on handling extremely powerful droids im all for that.
btw, 810 HAM isnt bad at all -w/ armor its way better than anyCL 10 creatures ive ever seen (arent droids going to be able to have armor 2 at some point? not sure).
Sorry if these have already been listed.
Combat modules are a waste of time if the chassis has low HAM (read: Both DZ70 and Probot). I would rather these existing combat droid HAMs were brought up to usable levels before they add extra chassis
Droid personalities are all well and good but the Protocol droid still wouldnt actually _do_ anything!
Power droids and harvester - Brilliant news but why does the maint need to go up? (the droids degrading so there is a tradeoff here). Also once 'attached' the power droid should not count towards called droid total (and will the droid be attackable etc? - if there are too many downsides no one will actually use this function)
No mention of increasing droid datapad limitation (I hear non-CH's can currently have 15 pets and this will be reduced to 10 - twice as many creatures than droids)
I hear what you are saying about alot of this stuff being long term so what about the simple stuff, what about fixing the current modules (data module for example). HAM changes on combat droids (which would go along way without the combat modules) - all apparently simple things that would give us a much needed boost and are already in the game and just need fixing.
-The Power Droid idea is workable. But why justMantenance? Why not make the Power Droids run out of Power eventually (say 3- 5 days RL)and have to be connected to a power harvester for a similar amount of timeto be recharged? This would maitain the integrity of the Power Harvester system for Architects, or at least help.
-Exploding MSEs, while highly entertaining I'm sure, will leave plenty of room for greifing. Besides, how would they be workable outside of town, camp, area near residence?
-Increased Functionality for Repair Droids would be nice. But how about just getting the repair function working first?
-Surgical Droid emergency healing sounds all well and good. However the idea of it being automatic bothers me a bit, and in all honesty I'm not sure why. I see abundant protests from angry Combat Medics.
-Combat modules sound fine. A DE should be able to customize any droid for whatever purpose. Any droid should be able to serve any purpose within reason. Just because something isn't mentioned in the Movies or theEU doesn't mean someone wasn't smart enough to do it. However, they should not be limited to DE only use. But what good are combat modules if the HAM and Armor don't work effectively? and while we're at it... High end armor requires bits from Armorsmiths, Power Droids require parts from Architects, will the Combat Modules require parts from Weaponsmiths?
-Droid experimentation has not been adressed. 5 experimentation points at Masterand experimentation has no apreciable effect on the outcome of the product? What good will the new modules be if we can't make the ocasional outstanding one?
My number 1 concern about this "plan" is that is is at best a vague outline. It feels more like the output of a first or second meeting brainstorming session.
My next concern is MSE bombs. If an expendable use is desired for MSE droids, make them deliver an item, waypoint, or schematic to someone then harmlessly "poof". Aren't they supposed to be messengers anyway?
I have no interest in droids that only DEs can use. That doesn't allow us to increase sales and make our class profitable.
I like the idea of attaching the Power Droid to a harvester. I think this is a great starting point for where droids should be heading. I'd like to make droids to automate some of the things I have to do manually now. Somewhere on the boards was a great idea about having a droid report on all your harvesters - listing what resource and percentage is being pulled; giving the power and maintenance pool numbers.
- Medical droids that are better than a player medic will get players stepped on. (I'm a Doc). I want my medic droid to help me do my job by using meds that I have the skills and med use skill for, and no higher. (reflects my ability to program it). It should also do things when I'm unable on in combat(cure states, stim on incap or low HAMs, revive me on death, etc). If I have it working with me on a patient, my mind costs shouldbe cut as well, as it is less stressful for me. It should also require that I load the meds into a storage compartment for it to consume.
- DE is a tough profession in that it's wares are used by everyone. Try not to make all the fixes/improvements DE only for that reason. If a DE can make a droideka, but nobody can use it, how will you sell them?
The Droid Handler profession idea simply doesn't make sense. Every droid that has ever existed in the Star Wars universe thinks for itself. They are very smart, and don't need a handler. All they need is a master.
There is already precedence for normal people having combat droids in game....If you run around on Lok you will find Droidekas called "Nym's Droideka." These Droidekas do not have handlers nearby, and Nym is not a droid engineer. Instead they guard his fortress through their own will and AI, following the directions of a regular guy.
Creature handlers do make sense. Creatures have low level intelligence and need a trainer to keep them to reverting to the wild (think Lion/Tiger/Elephant/Dog/Killer Whale/Dolphin Trainer). This combat droid/droid handler stuff is just wrong. There are so many things that could be improved for droids that would fix the profession without totally changing it. A good start would be the fix/wish list that the DEs put out that the devs seem to be ignoring.
Alright, too many posts for me to see if my ideas have been said. So, assuming Sintrosi is going to read them all no matter how many are repeated, I'll list my ideas as they come.
First, I would like to say that I'm both for, and against the DE/CH idea. While I would love the power to solo more things as if I had taken CH (which is being nerfed, BTW), I do believe that DE-only droids would be a bad idea. We make droids for others to use. At best, we have about the same requirements as any other players out there as far as droids are concerned. The only difference is that we have the same 5-droid limit, despite having to keep a slot or two open for sales. So we are sadly more limited in droid storage than the standard, non-DE player. That being said, we need more droid storage for the DE.
I do believe that combat droids should be implimented. Definitely not as powerful as the standard (and quite standard it is) Graul or Rancor. But not as nerfed as the Probot came out. Combat modules aren't necessarily a good idea, but it could fall under the category of putting a blaster on an R2: It wouldn't be a good idea, but if you were dumb/crazy enough to do it, then by all means, get yourself killed. There should be separate combat bodies, much like was already implimented in the Probot and the (useless) DZ70. It would be nice to be able to see a droideka in my pad, but mainly because I like the look of them. It's a touch depressing to see them on Lok and have to walk right past them knowing I could never touch the chips and parts or experiment around with their modules though.
As for the exploding MSE's...that's just freaking entertaining, and I can't wait 
Hooking up a power droid to the harvester could be awesome if implimented correctly. It should A) reduce frequency in power runs, and B) not count against the limit of droids currently out. If those two requirements are met, it would be awesome. If not, it would be as useless as filling up your house with items JUST to make the maintenance go faster. I know the droid would need to be recharged occasionally, but if it goes as fast, or faster than the power would normally be used (like the current battery usage on droids), then it wouldn't be worth it.
Having the repair and surgical droids actually have their proper built in function would be amazing, if not expected from the beginning. I like the auto-stim idea, and would give players an additional option for havinga droid follow them into combat besides just to fight (which they aren't that great at currently). The reduced mind cost is alsoa nice idea.
If there were a droid, or module, that allowed an entertainer to heal even a fraction of Battle Fatigue outside of the cantina, we may see an increase in the "Wandering Minstrel" type. It would also allow the various entertainers to leave the cantina occasionally, while not making their primary profession useless besides being pretty. It would be nice to see dancers and musicians do their thing somewhere besides the cantina setting, and manage to give them an actual reason to do so.
Giving the BLL a use to begin with would be an awesome idea. It should have built in storage for materials much in the style of the ingredient hopper in a factory.In fact, it should have all of the same inventory spots as a factory, so it may be used to make factory runs. With the same inventory spots available, the user would simply treat it as a factory and it would make the run for you, basically copying and pasting the changes to the factory on arrival, and back again when complete.
I like that they will allow us to have more than one droid out at a time. But again, that will be useless if they allow the same for other players as well. The problem is that I only see one function for this: To repair and power our own droids. Any other application can just as easily be done by either putting more mods in one droid, or just having multiple droids and switching them out. There should be some other application for more than one droid out at a time, especially if they can't all be combat droids.
I would love to see the droid "Decoration mode". If it allows my 3PO to do the "robot", I would have endless entertainment for myself and others. But seriously, multiple tricks like a pet would add more color to droids (but since color doesn't stick anyways, it may be pointless).
It would be more entertaining and/or useful if othe rplayers could converse with the intelligent droids. If the user is the only one that is allowed to talk to them, their personality chips are going to waste. Have them say random things. Have them respond randomly when they hear their name called. Something, anything to actually have them interact with the outside world, and not simply with their owners.
Well, sorry for the long post, but I tried not to leave anything out. Sintrosi, keep up the good, hard work. I've come to love you over the past month for everything you've done for us (figuratively speaking, of course). I can't wait to see these change, or any change for that matter. We have finally been recognized!
- Ignores all of the very, very good suggestions for modules in another thread here. Simply put, there was no detail to this supposed "plan"
- Combat droids that only DEs can control. Bad idea. We are artisans, not fighters. There must be a cert system in place for the combat classes to use combat droids.
First, let me say I like the fact that we DE's get some attention.
One of the major issues with our profession however is that we don't really have anything interesting to sell to players(except from the occasional medical droid and BH droids).
Some of thesuggested changes are nice, but if we can make combat droids that only we can use, every DE will make one for his own, and that's it (and since I have a non-combat character I don't need it anyways) ... again nothing to offer for other players/professions that see their combat skills drop by making the maximum level of pets for CH drop to 10.
We need combat droids for other classes as well ... otherwise this whole DE upgrade will be forgotten 2 days after it comes live.
By the way....In case I didn't make myself clear...there should be NO certifications required to "use" any droid. No one "operates" anything, the droid runs itself based on your verbal commands. Droid engineers are crafters and giving them special certifications for combat droids is a worthless idea. It does NOTHING to aid droid engineers in droid sales.
Ideally, Droidekas should be added to the game with a vitality of 50(or less). Everyone can use droidekas, everyone does and wears them out quickly, droid engineers sell a bunch. THAT is a fix to the droid engineer problem, not this combat addition crap.