Droid Engineer Archive

I think you don't get what I try to say.

AS, for exemple, do NOT have the choice.
The part in a compo armor that make it effective and low encumberence HAVE TO be made in a factory.
No option there, it's in the schematic.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you never went higher than Artisan on the crafting part of the game.

And, thx for the economy lesson, but I do know economy.
And I do not play on Bria, I play on an european server, that have not been hit by the first dupe credit exploit, and on wich price on some stuff were and are higher than on Bria.

It is true that not everyone can afford the best, the problem is : there is nothing else available.

The CB/CR will hopefully change everything, but it won't change one thing : people want the best, and crafter will only make what people want.

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AudioOrgana wrote:

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babyblue_d wrote:

(I give him credit for the effort this is not a flame to him just a story) <---- excuese me did you not read this?

its my choise to be a hand crafter and i know itill deal with what comes with it .. it was a story not a complain .. just a example if how the hand crafters feel

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o because you refuse to do the work necessary to make that many droids, the person who HAS done the work and created a large business should be punished? no this it not what we are saying

That's like saying to a combat player that they play "too good" and should have your XP gain reduced signifigantly because of "casual" players not being able to keep up.

It was your choice to construct those combat droids by hand, I just don't get what you are crying about. You feel as if someone else plays the game better than you, and your ego can't take it? If you like making droids by hand, by all means continue - but don't sit and whine about it when other people use the game systems available to them and work very hard producing industrial quality droids. EXCUSE ME .. i was not whineing i was teling a storry and hpw did he put in more work ? i spent like 8 hours at the crating station to make my droids ... the "Factory Crafter" spends 1/4 that time there and just tosses it in a factory .. you need to be a power gamer to stock a vendor by hand .. and only need to log in once a day for 10 min to factory craft .. I KNOW BECOUSE I HAVE DONE IT.

Yeah, that person who keeps a fully stocked selection of droids - must be a bad person. Meeting the demands of players when others can't or won't is a bad thing, right? <--- show me where i said he was a bad person i thought the # of droids was impressive

This issue is really just "let's punish those Droid Engineers who are the most able because those who of choose not to put in the required work to get to the same level". There is no issue here - you stock your vendor with 20 droids, someone stocks 2000. It's not like they have some special version of SWG, it's that they have made different choices, choices that ANYONE can choose to make. thats right its my choice to be a hand crafter ... and again how is he puting in more work i have been there in 2000 item vendor factory runs .. I stoped becouse it calsed me to play less as i had nothing to do when waiting for factorys ... so i started hand crafting if gives me more to do and is better for the customer

You choose not to mass produce and get some sort of superiority complex over it - in a virtual world made of 0's and 1's I don't get that, but hey, to each their own, until it interferes with "my own". again where was i doging him ... if it came out that way it was NOT my intent .. i this we can all craft and get along

If it weren't for the few Droid Engineers with the initiative to create a large scale industrial corporation, think of how many exponentially less droids would be in game. There are thousands of customers per server, and a handfull of special-order mom and pop outfits can't begin to handle them, especially if they construct everything by hand. I've found that most of these customers don't even know about all the types of droids available, or even that they can use combat droids - it's people with high profiles like myself, and, presumably the industrial droid engineer you spoke of, who get the word out to get the "little guy's" the business you get. EXCUSE ME .. I never said i was a "mom and pop store" i am one of the most respected DE's on intreped .. who are you to tell me who to run my shop. I have done nothing but help out DE's thank you. as a master ANY DE THAT COMES TO ME gets FREE masterDE level 6 units and parts to help them sell droids any kind he wants the ONLY thing i tell them is to do the same when they hit master (you need proff ask sodan droiddreamer ask peepsico ask fo'bar all on intrepid) i have suported IDEA for one thing i supplyed sodan and and one who was high profile in it with FREE pre nerf droid repair kits befor it was fixed .. i had a crate of these .. i saved 2 for my self .. and gave the other 23 away .. illthankyou not to question my "profile" and "judge" me be for you know me

I keep hearing romantic notions about crafting by hand, but that's all they are - romantic notions. I use the same interface to construct my droids as you do, I just don't make the same clicks over and over. I have to work hard finding large quantities of identical resources to make these factory runs, and I spend a great deal of time transfering crate after crate from factory to factory (try dragging and dropping hundreds of crates in one play session on a lag-filled planet). It's just making efficent use of my time and keeping up with demand. again you know nothing about how i craft (dont assume).. i have large stacks of resourses too if something good comes up ibuy 100 - 200k of it i never said i disliked the way i craft .. i dislike that i spend more time doing it for the same output

No one should fault you for doing business the way you choose, but neither should you fault people for using the advanced crafting systems to their advantage. again im not falting him .. im falting the system

It's akin to two master rifleman, one with a uber-T21 and the other using a DLT-20 and the one using the DLT-20 complaining that the guy with the uber-T21 deals more damage and therefore gets more XP/reward than he does. If the guy with the DLT-20 wants to put in the work, he could earn the means to get his own uber-T21. no its akin to a guy going out and geting kyrat tissues to build a uber T21 and haveing it do the same as a not tussued factory made one

However, if the guy with the DLT-20 has the romantic notion that using a lower-damage rifle is somehow more "noble" and chooses not to do the work required, or does not want to (thinking those who use their profession at it's fullest are automatically "power gaming"), he has simply made a choice and decided on his own his station in the game.

Smaller DE's will NEVER do the volume that someone that can produce more droids will - that's just common sense and mathmatics. Asking them to reward you for taking the "high ground" would be like gating those T21 users because the DLT-20 users choose to not use the advanced tools (T21/factory) available to them. no its like gateing me for my hand building when i can toss it in a factory and forget it but instead i have to deal with the same output for more work. you get more from a factory yes thats not the issue in dispute here.. its the quality ofthe "more bang for your buck" "econimy sokeing" factory runs being better than the quality of the "hard to get becouse its hand made" hand crafted stuff .. dont confuse the facts

You can do it too. Every industrial droid engineer began as broke and skill-less as everyone else who ever began SWG. If you choose not to do the work, for whatever reason, to get to that level, then by all means enjoy your profession whatever way you wish. But trying to nerf those who play it on a different level because you choose not to play that advanced part of the business game isn't the answer. my bissness game is just as advanced as yours but in a differnt way .. i work with the customer i show them evrey thing the droid can do then i build a droid that meets there needs .. not pointing them to a vendor full of "common" modles .. we both server a perpouse here .. YOURS IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS MINE AND THATS WHAT WE ARE TRYING MAKE MORE PREVOLENT ... not nerf you .. no we are trying to make the line in the sand more defined thats all

Smaller DE's have their advantages. I rarely take custom orders because I don't have the time to play the combat game, and do all my industrial crafting, and do special orders. Industrial DE's cannot stock awfully varied droids; you won't find R3's with two entertainer modules, one medical, two crafting stations and data storage on my vendors, you have to go to a smaller DE for that. If I do a run of 100 combat droids using the best fiber available, and a week later I still have 95 left and better chem spawns, I'm stuck with 95 obsolete droids that are worth 1/4 of what they were when I made them. When I put up 100 droids, they are all the same color - which I am finding is increasingly important to people who don't like the customization kits - which I don't sell - nor do I sell batteries most of the time (I leave that for the newer DE's making their way up). .. and this is why you wont be nerfed by this ... becouse there will still be a bemand for the fast no fuss mass market vendor .. just as much as there is now

Industrial crafting and hand-crafting can and do exist very nicely together, and when I read things about "hand crafted should be better!" in many ways they already are. You can provide a level of customization, especially as Droid Engineers, that no one producing droids by the crate can even begin to compete with. Customers share your romantic notions as well - I know many who find out about droids from people like me then end up giving special orders to their neighborhood DE's just because they like that type of service. ... again not trying to "steal" your bisness just trying to deffine the line ..see think outside DEcolor and modues meen nothing to a architect .. the mass production market owns all for them there in no "custome ordering" in that profesion .. so wheres the line in the sand for them ? this would be it

You don't do the volume that Industrial producers can, therefore you don't get the same level of profit. It's very cut and dry. Shafting those who are playing the crafting "end game" by subsidizing those who do low volume (by choice) wouldn't do anything but increase your volume, which you are already saying you don't want to do. It just doesn't make any sense except in, as I said, the idea of a romantic notion - which isn't what gameplay should be based on. who said i hand craft becouse i dont like supplying high demand ? i know i didnt. how is factorys crafting the "end game" for me it was the "ezey out" hand crafting is chalinging and fun and sorry its not your play style .. but please dont think less of me for it .. im not judgeing you why are you judgeing me and puting me in a stero type??

AO

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sorry if this sounded like a flame its not .. just makeing my point ...

Message Edited by babyblue_d on 09-07-2004 02:42 AM

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babyblue_d wrote:im not judgeing you why are you judgeing me and puting me in a stero type??

AO

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sorry if this sounded like a flame its not .. just makeing my point ...

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Go back and read your original post and tell me you weren't whining - you were - a sob story about how someone made more money than you once even though you believe you worked just as hard, followed by, "it's not fair! blah blah..."

You are calling for my product to be nerfed to subsidize your low volume. It's that simple. You think you should get rewarded for doing less business than I do. That is wrong. No matter what words you use to say it, that's what you are putting forth, that the quality of my products should be reduced to compensate you for your low volume.

I don't think less of you for playing however you choose, and I stated that several times. However, just because you choose to click repeatedly and I take advantage of my six fatories using the same interface only having to work as hard or even harder with component serial numbers and hunting down quality resources in massive quantity and endlessly moving crate from place to place doesn't make your playtime more valuable or deserving of my getting nerfed. I'm glad you found it so easy - I find it challenging to keep up. The only difference is that I don't repeatedly make the same clicks you do, I take advantage of the fact that SWG is set in an industrialized society and the game mechanics reflect that. Just because you mindlessly make the same clicks over and over does not make you morally superior, I hate to tell you.

Your original statement was that this isn't fair; I suggest you look up the concept of American capitalism. This is how business is supposed to work, and it's intended for SWG to work like a real world economy. What's interesting is that while in the "real world" some sort of subsidization of the type you are looking for may be desirable because of varying socio-economic backgrounds, in SWG that simply isn't the case; everyone landed from the space station with the same novice skill and 250cr, and everything thereafter is a choice.

You say you dislike spending the same amount of time for less output - well, again, I point you to the two master rifleman I spoke of above. Upgrade your tools and you can do the same thing. But you CHOOSE not to, so why should you get the benefits, or an exception for it?

You can talk about what a nice DE you are all you want, and I'm sure you are - however, you have made a choice to do low-volume, yet you do not like the consequences of that choice. You say I don't know your business - and I don't pretend to. But you gave us some vital facts, i.e. the contents of your vendor, the contents of the vendor that offended you, and use statements like "it's not fair" and "i never said i disliked the way i craft .. i dislike that i spend more time doing it for the same output", your motive is clearly obvious even if your methods are not.

You wanna make people happy with droids, selling by hand, continue to do so. I think it's wonderful - in fact, I like to know guys like you so I can send people your way. I've played a DE for well over a year and hand-crafting just isn't fun for me anymore, and I detest special orders, only doing them when I absolutely have to. I have advanced to a level of industrial manufacturing that may not be "better" than what you do (and what I did for a long time before I moved to factory work), but it certainly is more efficent, which is the whole point. Now, it's not more efficent in terms of time - factories take longer to make items than people do - but it saves me from getting CTS and going blind with the flashing crafting screens, and it helps me make the most use of what time I get to spend in the game.

You are trying to nerf my product because I simply make more volume with less active clicking during my playtime, and it just doesn't make sense. You don't make any sense - you like to do it by hand, but you don't like that someone who chooses to not do it by hand using the advanced crafting features can (obviously) make more in the same amount of play time - you've said as such. It sounds like you want the game your way, and for everyone else to have it your way too - or get nerfed so you can have your way easier.

This ain't Burger King, and the choices that you make have consequences. Just like my choices have consequences. When I make the choice of doing a large run of droids, I am assuming a great deal of risk, especially since I mainly sell combat droids. If I dump some of the ultra-rare metal I have into a run of 100 droids using the best chemical available, and a week later better chem spawns, my 100 droids are obsolete and I just wasted a bunch of ultra-rare metal. Sure, I can, and do, sell them as noobie droids, but in the end I still could have sold the metal to WS or AS for more than I'd make off the droid and I've done a crap load of work for nothing.

If you were truly happy as a hand crafter, you wouldn't care about other DE's, you'd be happy doing it. You obviously are having inferiority issues over it - you have stated this outright very clearly by saying you simply do not like that I get more with less clicks, even though I would put forth that there is much extra work that goes into constantly maintaining, loading, unloading, and gathering resources in factory work which you seem to ignore. You want the game to be changed to compensate, punishing everyone else of participates in the advanced crafting game. That's not right, nor do I think it's going to happen.

I just wish people who feel as you do would stop complaining and comparing apples to oranges (very large oranges...), and try to make the best of being an appple. Advertise "Factory-free DE!", "I specialize in nothing but customer service!", make yourself different without asking for a nerf, because asking for factories to get nerfed is asking for your product to be better, so you can sell it for more because you are dissatisfied that I make more money because I do more volume. If you want the big money, sell out and go industrial; if you want to hand-craft and get satisfaction from that, hand-craft but understand you will be doing less volume and making less money. This is the trade-off for your playstyle choice.

Although it may not be your personal intended end-game, the crafting end-game involves factories; as you will notice, as you progress up advanced crafting trees factories become a requirement more as you progress. The schematic system is the intended progression for crafting, and while you may choose not to take advantage of what is really a revolutionary feature for an MMOG, and one of the reasons the crafting in general is so amazing, you make the choice. You choose your method, knowing full-well the results. If you don't like like results, you may need to compromise and change your method. This isn't difficult stuff - "Do A, B happens." Do "C, D happens." If you want B to happen, do A. If you want D to happen, do C. If you don't like D, but like C, that's called a choice.

You really need to wrap your brain around the concept of "more production = more profit", and understand that you have the choice to hand-craft or factory craft, with the benefits and consequences of both, and you have made an active choice. It is your choice to make, but don't try to make your choice "better" by making mine "worse" - it's self-serving and completely oblivious to your responsibility as a player. Again, you totally missed my point about the rifleman - both are masters, with the same ability. One person chooses to take advantage of the advanced tools of the profession (someone that uses a T21, a basic one that is available on every street corner just like a factory is to a DE), or the beginner, low-volume tools (a DLT-20 or a hand crafting station).

You are choosing the low-volume tool, so you get, surprise, low voulme. Your preference (based on a romantic notion) is great - again, as I've said numerous times, more power to you - but you really need to take responsibility for your choices instead of saying "it's not fair" when you choose to compare yourself to someone that is playing what is intended to be a completely different type of business and manufacturing simulation than the hand-crafting game you are choosing to play. I understand that a few of you have fantasies of giving bonuses to droids made by hand, something about guys and cars thinking hand-made electronics are far superior, but in terms of gameplay, it's a romantic notion that denies that factories are clearly an entirely seperate mini-game that crafters are designed to progress to. A master combat player may choose never to go to the DWB because he doesn't care for grouping/dungeons - which is a respectable choice, but that doesn't mean he should get the rewards for it either.

AO

lets not turn this in to a flame war betrween me and you ...If my post sounded like a whine Im sorry it was not ment to be that way. That said let me get some things out in the open that might help you see the other side (im not trying to change your mind just trying to show you why I feel its right .. if you disagree thats fine lets agree to disagree. the deves wont do it if to many are aginst it so lets not flame one another needlessly.

1. Money is not a issue for my char .. along with my DE bizI do abit of hunting and orginze a weekly death watch raid. This combind with the fact that I am a Active member of UPS a Crafter delivery company keeps me in the money just fine (I havent droped below 1 mill in 7 months and avrige 2 mill profit monthly) so thats not my motive. this is not about me its about the crafter comunity. I feel something needs to change for the beter this market flooding of items is not good for the servers or for our economies this might help to flush out the "in it to corner the market and then move on when the next big thing comes along crafter" it might improve costomer / seller fath & interaction i can see a road ahead and I see it open for both crafting styles.

2. This goes farther than DE try to look at the big picture (all crafting profesions) surea DEcan stand out in the hand crafing biz with all the customization options we get its not hard and many like my self are happy there. but what does that say for the architech? this has nearly destryed ther profestion .. EXAMPLE .. arch's make there money from harvs and houses when you have a "high profile factory crafter" nearly cornering the market it puts the little guys out of bessness .. not a big deal you think .. but its VERY hard to find the same "high profile factory crafter" thats willing to make furniture by the truck load .. and sence the little guys quittheres not a lot of furniture vendors out there. maby this is not the case on your sever but it is on Intrepid. now look at the master artisan. how can he "stick out" his stuff cant be custom made .. for him its allor nothingthats not fair that he has no option but D becouse C is a no win area.

3.Imnot calling for a nerf on your part more of a "let us stand out" push away .. if not makeing hand crafting better how would you do it ? I no more want to hurt your biz thanI want give up DE .. but I do feel the hand crafter should stand out in some way that makes it desirable. heres one we get a small push for being hand crafted .. but if you make a scematicit cost like25% less in resorses for a factory runthis would make you the go to guy for the cheep and relyable and me the go to guy for the pricey hard to getslightly better product. i know i for one would still get my rifles in a factory crate .. makes them ezer to get sliced .. i would hate to spend the extra cash for a item that might not get a good slice .. you inthis example would still sell lots of"standerd issue" unitsI would sellmore combatdroids .. no bounty hunter is going to want to carry around 10 items in a pack just becouse it gets a extra 10 damage form the explosive droid he will still come to you for the crates.

This is why I feel this can work and we can both benifit from it ...

Message Edited by babyblue_d on 09-08-2004 02:38 AM

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babyblue_d wrote:

Imnot calling for a nerf on your part more of a "let us stand out" push away .. if not makeing hand crafting better how would you do it ?

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AudioOrgana wrote:

don't expect me to swallow a nerf to my products because you don't like the consequences of the decision you have made.let me say this againTHIS IS NOT ABOUT ME. I AM HAPPY WITH THE CHOISES I HAVE MADE. I AM NOTPOSTING HERE FOR MY SOLEBENIFIT.This is about ALL crafting profesions. remeber I didnt start this post,I added to it. it wasent my idea,I just like it.

Hand crafting being some divine state is all in your mind. If you prefer it better (it sure is a lot less responsibility, so I can understand that), then accept the consequences. If not, compromise.to you its less responsibility to me its more. AsI see it you get a tell for a droid and tell a customer if my vendor is at XXXX XXXX on XXXX planet se what I have. and thats it. i talk to the customer get a list of profesions and talor a droid to the customer. you need to understand thatthis game has LOTS of ways top be played.That the "CraftingEndgame" as you call it is just how you see it to me its the middle point.

AO

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now again how is the master artisan supost to stand out? how is a arch supost to stand out? you said arch's need to be dealt with be them selves. to me this problem crosses more profesions than a few. maby this is not the way to fix he problem but its there and it does ne to be fixed ... and in case you dont know what the problem is its that industralization hurts crafters if your names not in bright lights than you will almost never be successful. becouse the Known crafter can supply 50% of the player base .. tha means you only need a few like your self to control vast majority the market. You dont need to good to be a "Quality" crafter you just need to be rich going in to it, that makes it hardfor new players to "break in to the biz".<-- just for clareifcation .. I LIKE MY CHOISES THIS DOSE NOT APPLY TO ME AND IS NOT A COMPLAINT. please keep your coments broad and quit pointing the finger.

As for the game being changed to sute the crafters. it was not ment to be this way 100 items was the intended max fatory run the adding a extra 0 to the was a bug. The crafters got so used to it that when the devs went to fix it there was a HUGE out cry not to change it. Did you want it be extended to 1000 insted of being fixed like it was ment to be? if so this was a nerf to my game style but i dint complane. Why becouse majority rules and i saw no harm in it.

I'm not a DE for money or profit margensIm a DE becouseI likebuilding things, becouseI enjoymakeing the person on the other side happy, Becouse to me MMO's are about having fun and entracting with players. if this is not how you feel then fine thats you .. but dont look down on me for my belefs. I have not said one bad thing about your style of play it me its just that your style so stop telling me mines the wrong way to play.

audioorgana

look I have respect for you and your point of view. i think i have been varyopenminded. I have said my peace and put forth my inputI dont think that WE need to continue this back and forth bickeringits geting us no were I understand your point of view andI can see why you dont want this, but for me its not enoff. I dont thinkI will post on this mater again.

TK

I am sorry. I knowI have propetuated this flame war in your post. this was ment to be a healthy convo and I helped turn it in to bickering.

Message Edited by babyblue_d on 09-09-2004 02:08 AM

Message Edited by babyblue_d on 09-09-2004 02:16 AM

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babyblue_d wrote:

now again how is the master artisan supost to stand out?

Master Artisan? It's a novice profession. Not supposed to "stand out" awfully far. This has been stated by the Devs. If you mean master crafting profession, there are many ways - which, as I've suggested above, include having excellent customer service, quick turnaround, highly customizable product, and not having the burdon of a large stock making your business much more versitile. Or, biting the bullet and competing in the Industrial crafting game, if the rewards of it are important to the crafter. It's their choice to make.

how is a arch supost to stand out? you said arch's need to be dealt with be them selves. to me this problem crosses more profesions than a few. maby this is not the way to fix he problem but its there and it does ne to be fixed ...

As I said, architect is a special case of a huge design flaw - that virtually none of their products have any sort of experimentation/customization. Crafting stations and harvesters are it. The problem is with their product, not with the way it is sold. This is very like the issue we faced before the droid publishes, before we had combat droids and the new utility modules that allowed customization/different levels of experimentation.

As to the other professions, as I said above, the combat balance should change this if it's all that is promised. Right now, there is only one set of desirable stats on weapons, highest damage possible and speed secondary (in most cases, it varies by specific weapon). Because of buffs, no one generally cares about other variables like HAM cost, and at Master most combat professions don't have to be especially worried about speed. Post-combat balance, crafting things like weapons, armor, food, etc. is going to be very different - sort of like droids are now. Some people will need faster weapons, some people will need higher damage, some people will need better HAM costs - again, hopefully, if it all works out the way they have said it will.

Definately, architect has a problem - many, in fact, including that once a building is sold, as long as it doesn't fall to disrepair, it doesn't need to be replaced (simmilar to our decay issue). The rest of the crafting professions, however, will have a much larger variety of products than they do now - and hopefully the days of visiting an AS and only seeing Stun composite is going to be over.

and in case you dont know what the problem is its that industralization hurts crafters if your names not in bright lights than you will almost never be successful. becouse the Known crafter can supply 50% of the player base .. tha means you only need a few like your self to control vast majority the market. You dont need to good to be a "Quality" crafter you just need to be rich going in to it, that makes it hardfor new players to "break in to the biz".<-- just for clareifcation ..

See, again, your romantic notion that hand-made in a video game = "quality". Also, you continue this contradiction - you like crafting by hand, but want the benefits of doing large volume. If you want your name in lights, go out there, make tons of excellent product, and do it! You CAN compete, you are just choosing not to. I really don't understand how you don't see this.

I LIKE MY CHOISES THIS DOSE NOT APPLY TO ME AND IS NOT A COMPLAINT. please keep your coments broad and quit pointing the finger.

I'm not pointing the finger, I am responding to the comments you have made. You have specificly stated that the problem you have is that you can spend the same amount of time as an Industrial producer and the Indurstrial producer ends up with more reward. This is your "motivation", which is different from the rhetoric of "hand crafting should be better!" You have complained specificly about your situation throughout your postings, which speak to your reasons for holding this notion which I do not believe is accurate. I have tried to get to the root of what you are saying, which you have provided inmore than enoughexamples.

As for the game being changed to sute the crafters. it was not ment to be this way 100 items was the intended max fatory run the adding a extra 0 to the was a bug. The crafters got so used to it that when the devs went to fix it there was a HUGE out cry not to change it. Did you want it be extended to 1000 insted of being fixed like it was ment to be? if so this was a nerf to my game style but i dint complane. Why becouse majority rules and i saw no harm in it.

Again, due to a design flaw. I would have no problem if actual droid deed schematics were limited to 100, the outcry was from people like us, medics, chefs, etc. who's professions were designed AFTER the 100-limit was part of the design, and have huge identical factory made sub-component requirements. Because the game has no way to differentiate between a "final product" schematic anda sub-component schematic, they had to leave it at 1000 or factories would have been useless. In the end, the only real problem in their eyes was that you had to manually type in the extra 0, and I believe instead of just fixing it they decided to do the "hero pass" where they make an outcry happen over something they know is going to go in the opposite direction just so they get some (usually well-needed) "good" PR. The way the game has evolved, 100 simply isn't enough for sub-components when the system can't make the distinction between them and final products.

You may think factories are the "medium" game, but you fail to realize that is in your perspective, and the perspective of the game design is different. It would be like saying the Corvette and the DWB weren't intended to be the combat-endgame - a place for masters to exercise their limits and take larger risk for larger rewards. Now, is that the endgame for everyone? No, but in the design of the game it is. Factories are the indended end-game, even for you - you can't make an R3 without one. It's just the amount you take advantage of the factory in addition to that.

I'm not a DE for money or profit margensIm a DE becouseI likebuilding things, becouseI enjoymakeing the person on the other side happy, Becouse to me MMO's are about having fun and entracting with players. if this is not how you feel then fine thats you .. but dont look down on me for my belefs. I have not said one bad thing about your style of play it me its just that your style so stop telling me mines the wrong way to play.

Do you not get the extreme contradiction and irony in this statement? If you just want to make the person on the other side happy, then why are you complaining about not being able to "get your name in lights", how other DE's play the game as intended, or concerned that Industrial people can produce more in the same amount of time? This is where your argument makes no sense at all - if you just like building things and making people happy then you've met your goal. If that statement was true, this conversation would have never started.

I'm in no way telling you your way is wrong - as I've said, I wish there were more people like you to take the burden off of people like me who don't want to do custom orders. What I think is wrong is that you are asking to have your product made "better" because of competition, when at the same time you are saying, "I just like building things" and "I don't care about profit". One statement does notlead to another -in fact, they totally contradict each other.

AO

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Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 09-09-2004 02:59 PM