Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droid decay proposal Version 0.3
Jenden wrote:
TK, you talk about them going in NPC cities... but being player craftable? not sure how that works out, might want to clarify a bit.
I did a bit of this above (/pointsUp).
I envision 2 versions of a "DRC" feature:
- The NPC city facility (similar to a garage): These go in less-traveled NPC cities, to help 'liven' them up some, and would only require the player to pay a credit fee (similar, again, to garages). It also offers a great way to have immersive downtime and a possibility for social interaction.
- The DRC "machine": These would be player crafted and could go in houses/guild halls, etc. Craftable by MArchs and use parts provided both from MAs and MDEs. Per my earlier suggestion, make the 'quality' of the machine's capability by tied to the number of Pit Droids added (or whatever) or the quality of some/all of the parts used during construction. The quality might affect the number of 'dips' or the time to complete the refurb process. If you had a "perfect" DRC machine, you might finish the refurb in....say....20 min? An average one might be closer to an hour. A horrible one might be 90 min.
- I'd like to see these be the machines be the only ones capable of replacing broken modules or parts (if such a thing were added either with this system or later on). This means that players could sometimes just hit the NPC city but other times would HAVE to find an MDE with one of these machines.
- By doing this, it also means that we might have the basis of a working Upgrade system, so that when a module broke, they could simply be replaced with whatever the MDE put into the input hopper on the DRC machine.
- We could expand this so that the DRC machine could be used to do Upgrades at ANY time (even on a 100% Integrity droid) but that this would require more credits, more time, more resources or whatever.
It's true that this partly turns us into a 'service' (repair) profession. However, using the sort of idea above...I don't mind. Because it is a WAYYYY immersive way to do it, it drives traffic to my shop and provides the players with a lot of the things they have wanted for awhile (a way to upgrade existing droids).
Again...I'm just spit balling here but I think this sort of system is very attractive in a number of ways, both to players and to the Devs.
Be aware that I'd still like to see the "Reconstruction Kits" be changed so that anyone can use them on their droid to slow down the rate of decay (and need for refurbishment). I just don't see/hear of a lot of DEs using them on their droids. With the type of system laid out above, they would be redundant since a DE could just 'dip' his/her droid any old time they wanted.
To take that even further.....
New MDE Perk: All droids in an MDEs datapad could be refurbed endlessly by the DRC machine (only, not the NPC facility). This means that an only an MDE can keep all of his/her droids in perfect condition forever. Any other players would require more 'work' to keep his/her droids in whatever state they wanted.
/bow
Respectfully,
Message Edited by TheRealTK421 on 02-19-2005 08:20 AM
Well, we could simplify it by removing the NPC city facility option.
Just leave it as a craftable machine. This means that players could just stop by their MDE's shop and do the credit-only refurb dip themselves (a self-service option).
However, to do anymore than that would require that the MDE be there to run the machine.
Perhaps any MDE that had one of these could register his/her shop like Ents. can do for cantinas. That way, a player can easily see droid shops that offer this service. Then, they can hit the closest one for regular maintenance but would need to drop the MDE an email to schedule something more.
I just thought the NPC facility thing would be a good way to drive player traffic to NPC cities (something the Devs want anyway).
/bow
Respectfully,
Yet another kit for us to sell is not decay.
Under the system I proposed, we still get to make new droids - they have to buy a finished deed. Role-players and people with attachemnts to their droids get their way as well, because for all they know the system eats the deed and feeds it to their old droid. In reality, they are just buying a new droid and it is coming out with the same name/color as the old one. Win, win.
I did NOT propose a credits for repair system, which I am opposed to because it is not really a decay that is going to benefit us. It's a new moneysink, which isn't bad, but it defeats the whole purpose of player decay.
I disagree that a DRC would be hard to implement - it didn't take them terribly long with ID tents. Part of the reason I suggested it as such was exactly as someone pointed out above - it increases the use of NPC cities. As to implementation, it could be, as I said, like the interior of a player city cloning lab, using art decoration that is already in the game (droids and workstations).
The reason for proposing the idea of a "dip"/lift, etc. was two-fold - one, to appease those people who have emotional attachments to their droids and are therefore opposed to decay, and two because we saw it in the films, and this game is desperate for content that replicates the SW films.
I'm glad people enjoyed the idea, but instead of making it ten times more complicated, please read it again and take it at face value. It could be VERY simple, yet very effective. Your droid needs replacing, you buy a new deed, you go to this place and come out with a new droid. Yes, it's just a fancy way of turning in a droid for another, but it does address the issues on both sides.
AO
Eceen wrote:
Ok, this is an idea I can get behind. I agree a player "tent" in the npc cities would work. The only concern I have here about requiring the DE present or having it like a crafting station is for those DE's and servers that have a low population. I know even on Corbantis server with its high population I still need a special vendor for our friends on the other side of the world. I think having a kit and a deed for the new refurbishment would be easier for those players that play at odd times or dont have many DE's around. Player sends an email to the DE with what they need, DE makes it and responds with price, places it on a vendor, the player then picks up the deed and kit at their convienance and can go to the DRC when they have the time to do so and get it done by themselves.
Under the system I proposed the DE does not need to be present.
It goes like this :
1) Player's droid needs refurbishment
2) Player buys a new droid deed that they want to refurbish it with (must be same chassis, but module configuration CAN be different)
3) Player goes to "DRC", a ID-tent like structure (though hopefully more high-tech) where he can put his droid and feed the deed into a machine (kind of like you feed items into the Jetpack forge at the DWB)
4) Player sees an animation of the droid being dipped (or, as I said, to simplify development, make it more of an enclosed tube of sorts)
5) Player walks away with a "refurbished" (new) droid
A kit that does the same is fine with me - as long as the kit requires a droid deed. I've suggested that a half-dozen times in these threads yet the opposition to decay hasn't seemed to take to the idea. Thus the DRC was born - it gives them the immersion they want, it gives us the sales we want, it adds to the overall Star-warsyness of the game.
AO
YodaMac wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
Under the system I proposed the DE does not need to be present.
It goes like this :
1) Player's droid needs refurbishment
2) Player buys a new droid deed that they want to refurbish it with (must be same chassis, but module configuration CAN be different)
3) Player goes to "DRC", a ID-tent like structure (though hopefully more high-tech) where he can put his droid and feed the deed into a machine (kind of like you feed items into the Jetpack forge at the DWB)
4) Player sees an animation of the droid being dipped (or, as I said, to simplify development, make it more of an enclosed tube of sorts)
5) Player walks away with a "refurbished" (new) droid
A kit that does the same is fine with me - as long as the kit requires a droid deed. I've suggested that a half-dozen times in these threads yet the opposition to decay hasn't seemed to take to the idea. Thus the DRC was born - it gives them the immersion they want, it gives us the sales we want, it adds to the overall Star-warsyness of the game.
AO
Yeah, I just dont get it. If a player comes to me to buy a droid deed, goes through all the time to decide on the modules they want, the droid model, colors, etc, then waits for me to craft it... then why would they take it to one of these places you mention if they already have the deed? Whether they buy it from me or my vendor...they already have the deed and are ready to use it. Unless you are suggesting that all droid deeds must go through one of these "machines" to be readied? I'm not a big fan of that. The "ready droid unit" command is working just fine.
To me, TK's suggestion makes more sense, since it doesn't require a deed to work, just credits. And it's not a "kit" so much as a furniture item, so DE's (or anyone) can have them in their shops, but don't HAVE to get into selling them or being called with /tells all the time asking for an overhaul. Except when a droid finally does succumb to 0% integrity, and a DE would need to be present to put new modules (the same or different ones) into the "hopper" and let the player refurbish their droid. Probably the price to activate the machine would go up with each module placed in it or something, Or if only DE's could operate them with new modules, then itwould be up to the DE charge a reasonable fee.
Message Edited by YodaMac on 02-19-2005 01:30 PM
Message Edited by YodaMac on 02-19-2005 01:31 PM
LMAO.
Yoda, I suggested it all because of YOU.
Because you say you want to keep the same droid forever beause of roleplay reasons, this was a way for us to sell droids and still let you keep the "same" droid.
This is a way to RETROFIT droids people already have to satisfy your concern about wanting droids to be your little friends.
I am totally against a speeder-bike type credit repair, because THAT DOES NOT LEAD TO MORE DROIDS SOLD, the goal of decay. Otherwise it's just a generic moneysink with no benefit to our profession.
AO
Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 02-19-2005 04:09 PM
I also dont see how this would help those players that play on low population servers and low DE servers if a DE was required to be present in any stage of the process. In order to help this would it not be better to have the droid being refurbished redeed once it is completed? Basically it would wipe its memory too (not have the programmed commands). But that shouldnt be a problem. The DE could then place it on a vendor to have it picked up by the owner.
Also another thought I had when thinking about roleplay and droids roles in that. I have in my shop a multitude of droid chassis named various things like, building maintenance, security droid, shop assistant, ect.. Would it not help our profession and thus the sale of droids if we had modules that we could put into basic chassis that would give the droid different animations, kind of like they have now when you drop them. Even better would be to expand the personality chips to encompass this. But expand it to include "appearing" to perform tasks. Example would be have a module in an R2 unit that would activate an emote to bring up a serving tray and a manipulator arm to place a glass. Just silly things like that to make people want to have them as a furniture type item in their houses and not just tucked in some corner.
Had to edit, bad spelling errors. Please excuse any others you see.
Message Edited by Eceen on 02-19-2005 02:22 PM
Message Edited by Eceen on 02-19-2005 02:24 PM
TheRealTK421 wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
Hmmm...well, my idea was very simple, but I think some people are missing the spirit.
Just to clarify...I didn't miss it. I just took and started brainstorming, that's all.
Which is great. However, in doing so you got totally away from the whole intent of my proposal - for more droids to be sold and for there to be an immersive, star-warsy way for them to do so while invigorating NPC cities (a nice side effect). When you start talking about credit sinks and other things, I simply was trying to get back to the spirit of what I originally wrote and I felt it was leading to people misunderstanding what I said in the first place. I was just trying to clarify.
The droid deed is an essential part of it because as DE's we still get to make droids. Any credit dump system (like vehicles/garages, as you keep mentioning) is not decay, it's a money sink for players and doesn't benefit DE's as a profession, just as a stop-gap few extra credits.
Yet another kit for us to sell is not decay.
Yea....that's why I wanted to try to shy away from one more kit/consumable.
I'd suggest:
- Repair Kits: These work as they do now, to repair white HAM damage
- Recon. Kits: (after the change) Usable by ANY player to stave off the onset or pace of droid decay.
So, these wouldn't go away but their features would be changed to fit into a newer,
more immersive system.
If that's something DE's feel is absoultely necessary, I wouldn't fight it - but it should never indefinately stop permanent decay. Eventually, a droid has to die for the system to work. People don't need yet ANOTHER droid consumable - pretty soon people are going to need a whole storage droid just to store the kits and batteries to keep their droids going.
Under the system I proposed, we still get to make new droids - they have to buy a finished deed. Role-players and people with attachemnts to their droids get their way as well, because for all they know the system eats the deed and feeds it to their old droid. In reality, they are just buying a new droid and it is coming out with the same name/color as the old one. Win, win.
I sorta twisted your idea about because I just saw a new deed as being too.....boring.
Now, loading up the input hopper on a DRC machine with parts, you might have some droid shops where Med modules, Harvest mods and others were available....but you'd have to hit a different shop to find Combat modules, Ent. FX modules and StimDispensor modules.
You can think of this machine as a kind of special repair machine / vendor (for parts / modules). However, the nice part is that an MDE doesn't have to be about to baby-sit normal refurb situations and only is needed when parts/modules die or when an upgrade is ordered.
That's when the mini-game thing comes into play (which I personally would find very immersive and fun).
No, but we become part monkeys. The whole point of my soloution, boring as it may be for you, is to increase the sales and productions of droids. Personally I find putting parts on vendors boring. Under my proposal, again, a DE does not have to babysit anything. And sure, a mini-game is all well and good, but we need to balance the benefit such a game would have. Remember, our first priority should be the health of the profession - the "extras" are just that.
I did NOT propose a credits for repair system, which I am opposed to because it is not really a decay that is going to benefit us. It's a new moneysink, which isn't bad, but it defeats the whole purpose of player decay.
Again, clarifying...
The credits go to the DEs bank account, not to the system (unless a public NPC type facility were implemented). Even then, the NPC versions should be there only for convienence and shouldn't be able to produce refurb. 'effects' that were as good as what would be possible in a private droid shop.
I don't see how balance wise that would work out, but that's beyond the scope of my suggestions.
I disagree that a DRC would be hard to implement - it didn't take them terribly long with ID tents. Part of the reason I suggested it as such was exactly as someone pointed out above - it increases the use of NPC cities. As to implementation, it could be, as I said, like the interior of a player city cloning lab, using art decoration that is already in the game (droids and workstations).
Yea...I wanted to try to build a solution that would contain a lot of the things the Devs were wanting anyway since it heighten the likeliehood that they'd adopt our proposal (in whole/part).
Which is exactly what mine does (much more than putting things in private structures/etc.).
The reason for proposing the idea of a "dip"/lift, etc. was two-fold - one, to appease those people who have emotional attachments to their droids and are therefore opposed to decay, and two because we saw it in the films, and this game is desperate for content that replicates the SW films.
Absolutely. I'm totally behind this and I think it's one of the reasons why I like the general concept so much.
I'm glad people enjoyed the idea, but instead of making it ten times more complicated, please read it again and take it at face value. It could be VERY simple, yet very effective.
Errr...what I envision seems simple too:
/bow
- 1) Change Recon. kits into basic 'decay delay' kits
- 2) Add DRC machine - as described
Done.
What's complicated about that?
You are over simplifiying what took you several long posts above to describe. You are talking about stocking all these parts on vendors (we'd all need Master Merchant to handle that load - they won't give us "free cookies" even if it's in a "new" machine), credit sinks, and new objects for peoples homes, etc. My idea was simple - you go to this place with your old droid and a new one and your old one gets renewed.
Your droid needs replacing, you buy a new deed, you go to this place and come out with a new droid. Yes, it's just a fancy way of turning in a droid for another, but it does address the issues on both sides.
True. However, I was thinking longer-term. The DRC method would be a way to bridge us over to upgrades, which we all know that players want.
No, I can't agree there. What's the difference between upgrades and modularity? Modularity = bad. In the system I proposed, you indeed can upgrade your droids, however. That's why I said the new modules would replace the old.
AO
Respectfully,
Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 02-19-2005 04:33 PM
Eceen wrote:
I would have to agree with Yoda on the deed portion. I understand the roleplay aspect of keeping color and name, but all in all you can do those colors and name with a new droid deed and the roleplayer would be none the wiser.
Wow...I've only been saying that in every post I made about this topic.
I've said exactly that - there is no difference between a red mouse droid named "gobo" and another one. Yet some people insist that droids are some kind of special object that can never die. That's the whole frickin' point of my proposal, because that camp doesn't seem to be able to get past that sixty seconds it takes to recolor/rename.
/sigh
I also dont see how this would help those players that play on low population servers and low DE servers if a DE was required to be present in any stage of the process. In order to help this would it not be better to have the droid being refurbished redeed once it is completed? Basically it would wipe its memory too (not have the programmed commands). But that shouldnt be a problem. The DE could then place it on a vendor to have it picked up by the owner.
Again, I'll put it in bold :
NO DE EVER HAS TO BE PRESENT IN THIS SYSTEM. That is the reason for the NPC "tent" in cities, to keep the burden off of the DE. That's the beauty of upgrading via deed.
AO
AudioOrgana wrote:
Again, I'll put it in bold :NO DE EVER HAS TO BE PRESENT IN THIS SYSTEM. That is the reason for the NPC "tent" in cities, to keep the burden off of the DE. That's the beauty of upgrading via deed.
AO
I understand your position on this its those that want the DE to benefit by getting credits for running the actual machine this is directed to.
AudioOrgana wrote:
LMAO.
Yoda, I suggested it all because of YOU.
Because you say you want to keep the same droid forever beause of roleplay reasons, this was a way for us to sell droids and still let you keep the "same" droid.
This is a way to RETROFIT droids people already have to satisfy your concern about wanting droids to be your little friends.
I am totally against a speeder-bike type credit repair, because THAT DOES NOT LEAD TO MORE DROIDS SOLD, the goal of decay. Otherwise it's just a generic moneysink with no benefit to our profession.
AO
Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 02-19-2005 04:09 PM
Overall i agree with this sentiment, having a way to keep old droids around but yet still consumes a price cost of similiar drioid..here is a middle version:
Take TK's DRC machine, take AO's idea of a deed...a player then takes his old disabled droid to the DRC machine a new deed identical to the machine. He loads the disabled droid into the DRC then hits a "transfer programming" option that makes a brand new droid with all the same color, name, so on as the original. If you want to make that system more complex you can always throw in options to load in parts of other module types so people can use deeds that dont match the original. I see AO's point, while having DRC's with credit options to slow decay, having them for repairing a disabled droid is self-defeating. So the chart would go like this:
Player Bob buys a combat probot 540 rated, AR6 3000ham >
Player bob uses it a month about 10 hours a week >
He then needs decides to repair it a DE Al's Droid shop's DRC machine.
Bob continues to get repairs for another month or 2 then his integrity has hit 0
Bob decides he wants to keep his current probot, but DE Al is out of biz so he goes to DE Gina and buys a 530 CR/3100ham combat probot deed.
Next He strolls over to Gina's DRC machine loads the disabled probot into the DRC and selects a transfer function.
Bam! His new deed is consumed and its ham has gone up but its CR went a little down (540/2+530/2).
This kind of scenario would allow someone to take theyre R3 with a utility set of modules (storage, medical..so on) and buy modules and when the time comes to go fix the refurb he could load the mods in and then he could in effect mod his r3 the way he likes! Yikes somehow my plan ended at modularity...well anyways the overall read of it is in the middle between AO's and TKs and Yodamacs ideas.
Cheers!