Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Drashk's Proposed Droid Certification System

SWhitestar
Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:17 am
#40

OUTSTANDING!!



/clap Drashk - you are a true DE!




Sheridan Whitestar
W* Droid Workshop

Chimaera - European Server - MASTER DROID ENGINEER

"We seem to be made to suffer. It's our lot in life" - C3PO

Arcid
Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:18 am
#41

I like the cert Idea as it is, but the Devs have said that controling combat droids needs to cost skillpoints as well. One theoretical solution:


Just take this system, and give each of the people the option to buy the Droid CL for say about1 Skillpoint per 5 CL based on say General combat XP when they get to one of the boxes that allows them more Droid CL. Ensures that only combatants get high levels of Droid Control, gives it a skillpoint cost, and no reason for the Devs to complain


SWhitestar
Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:29 am
#42

one thing i dont fully understand is how the faction points would work. can anyone clarify this for me?


does it mean that while your using a level 15 combat droid your considered to gain 5 points of faction towards imperial or rebel standing?


or


does the ability to own a level 15 combat droid require you to have 5 points of imperial or rebel faction standing?


just how much is 1 point of faction standing (considereing you need 200 faction just to join)?


or is this faction something completely different to the GCW?






Also i think the cap of 20 - 25 is a bit low - it could easily go as high as 35 or 40


Heres my full profession tree that i am currently aiming for...


Artisan 4-0-4-0 (2)


Marksman 0-4-0-4 (4)


Droid Engineer Master (15)


Merchant 0-4-0-4 (6)


Pistoleer Master (15)


Total Points (42)



even the most non combatant class would have the best combat droid at there disposal. A master entertainer/dancer/musician and 4-4-3-0 image designer would have5+10+10+4 (29) points


Just mastering BH gives you 35 points (master scout (5), master marksman (10), master bounty hunter(20)) but as some know this only leaves them about 30 skill points and can probably only muster another 4 points towards droid level.


i would prefer to see 35 as the cap. Or maybe consider dropping the 4 tier form starting professions and making it a flat 5/10 for mastering them. this would take my examples to the following


myself 36


entertainer 29


BH still 35 (with 30ish points left over)


whatever its gonna be a balancing act to find the perfect solution




Sheridan Whitestar
W* Droid Workshop

Chimaera - European Server - MASTER DROID ENGINEER

"We seem to be made to suffer. It's our lot in life" - C3PO

Apophis23
Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:23 am
#43

A great idea! Certainly beats having a creature handler profession...



k Agli Lightwaver k

HawkCormyr
Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:38 am
#44






Hillslayer wrote:

I'm not very awake, so if I'm reading this all wrong someone hit me please. Anyhow, here goes.


Are you saying that Bounty Hunters and such can pick up 35 or more skill points while a DE, a person who makes droids and should know FAR MORE about thier usage then anyone else, gets MAYBE 22 - 30ish? I'm sorry but we should be at the highest end of the spectrum. We make them and therefore know how they work. We should not be behind (sorry kids) some "Ub3R 1337 13 year old snot nosed BH". I support much of this system, but as people that make Droids and OFTEN INSTRUCT OTHERS IN THIER USE I feel that we should be working as the top tier of the tree. Do you really want newbs asking said BH on instructions for using thier droids? Not only would this probably turn them off the social aspect of the game it could well turn them off droids or the game as a whole.


In conclusion, we need to be at the top. This is both for our own sanity and the enjoyment of the hypothetical newb as I haven't yet met a "mean DE".







/agree


We need to be at the top how can we build something we cannot control ?
You will tell me that this the is the same with medic droid i do not agree we can use them what we cannot do is healing people as we do not know how to do this but we know how to program a droid that can help someone who know waht he is doing.
This the same with BH droids we cannot use them because we have not the skill to get BH missions.
But there is no skill in relation with droids there are not giving bonus or change our capacities like medic or BH droids they just follow orders ...





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I will tell you this, Droids (and DE's) are going to be the MAIN feature
for the January publish. We will be fixing alot of things and adding
combat droids. Yes, talk is cheap." - JustG 11/25/03
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Virtanis
Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:41 am
#45




Thunderheart wrote:





Sketh wrote:

This is not a change of heart.


Please see Drashak's cert system proposed here:


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=52473


THAT is what we wanted, not a droid handler class.






That is probably not possible, though I will find out.






Thunderheart, it most certainly IS possible... How do I know this? Just ask Holocron:


Holocron said: "We've talked about having a "Droid handler" profession that would serve as the CH equivalent, and then DE wouild be the equivalent of BE. There's also just rolling the certs into the DE track itself."


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=502906&highlight=droid+cert#M502906


The certs don't have to be just in DE, it can be EXACTLY as Drashk's plan suggests.





"You Droid Engineers have had to suffer through some tough times. The Devs do not hate the profession and have plans to address some of the larger concerns."
- Q-3PO 10/23/03 1st Annual Droid Engineering Academy Awards

- Fortium - Master Droid Engineer - Master Artisan - Grumpy Advocate for Droids and DE's -
- Proprietor of CF Industries Droidworks -
Naboo: -6600, 3450; Tatooine: -680, -4290; Dantooine: -772, 2860; Corellia: -140, -5500;

Kav
Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:45 am
#46

Some friends and I were kicking a cert idea around for awhile now. One that would be a bit more simple to implement. Not poo pooing your idea Drashk. Just want to present an alternitive.


The primary question that has to be answered is how high should droids go? Droidika were the most impressive combat droids seen in the movies. But it was more thier energy shield than thier blaster strength that did the trick.


Is it really nessesary to go as high as lvl25 droids? Under the current system it would seem a lvl 12-15 max would be enough to open sufficent options to droid design.


Why would it be unbalancing? Give folks back the ability to have a pet AND a droid out for one. Then everyone will have a lvl10 pet and a droid up to thier cert. If everyone has it, then no one person is more powerful. Keep the exsisting 1 droid at a time limit. it works, it's simple, no one has big complaints about it.


Droid Management


In general granted in the Novice block of each profession, with the last in elite4 or master(whichever balances better). To put it all in the top tiers of professions weakens the dabbling build of the game, while some folks think dabbling is a dirty word, it is the core of this games design.


For balance, simple, they don't stack. Built in the same fashion as Damage Mitigation. (exsample: If i have melee mitagation1 from TKA and Melee mitagtion1 from smuggler, I still have melee mitigation1, not 2.)


The advantage to useing novice blocks is this leaves droid use availible to all. Yet keeps the problem of the pre-nerf probot (newbs useing it to level up quickly) behind. It also by design will not allow "uber template" stacking.


Everyone in SWG should have droids, they should be as prevalent as Swoop Bikes and Blasters.



  • Novice Starting professions: Droid Managment1=Droids up to lvl10

  • Novice Expert Professions: Droid Managment2=Droids up to lvl12

  • 4th tier (or Master?)Expert Profession: Droid Mangament3=Droids to lvl15

This would enable a growth patteren and keep it simple.


It would also open 3 major classifications of combat droid, do we really need more than 3? Combat droids were not that prevelant in the stoyline, 3lvls with 2-3 designsat each levelshould be enough. A tank one a speed one and a balanced one, at each major lvl will open up alot of potential.


To add a "Droid Handler" profession would be to rob everyone in the game of one of the coolest aspects of Star Wars. We all want droids.





Kav::Master Smuggler::
Beul::Engineer::
"Credibility is like virginity, you can only lose it once."
Kollos
Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:56 am
#47

Ya know what? I think Drashk's cert system is too complicated. It's a great system, but it's more than we need to get things started. So let's cut it down to the absolute bare essentials:


1) ANY character is certified to use a CL 8 combat droid.


2) Masters of base-level professions are certified to use a CL 10 combat droid.


3) Masters of elite-level professions are certified to use a CL 12 combat droid.


In order to implement this we'd need a new CL 8 combat droid (I propose bumping up the DZ70) and a new CL 12 combat droid (make a new one). To make things more interesting, we could even have combat modules that would change the type of attack. I.e. a CL 10 Probot with a WHIZ-BANG combat module does Stun damage instead of Energy damage. Or something like that. By keeping the CL certifications low there's far less risk of imbalancing anything.


There. Simple and effective. If it turns out that those numbers are too low, they could be increased after the system went live without causing any problems.




Kollos Orcslayer : Master Droid Engineer : Master Artisan

Droids by Kollos -840, 3980 Seacht, Naboo (NW of Keren)
Bounty Hunter Droids by Kollos 4924, 6107 550m SW of Kaadara
Vehicles and Master Artisan Components also available
paying 250k/point for Droid Assembly Skill Tapes, minimum of +4

O-Jen
Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:07 am
#48

I like it!

spearbearer
Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:26 pm
#49

Drashks Certification System is the best think EVAR!1!!

Seriously, why make a new DH profession with all its balance problems when the solution can be a simple (compared to creating a new profession) cert system that would satisfy the majority? And by majority I don't mean only the DEs, I'm also talking about friends and customers who stronly dislike the idea of a DH profession.



Icatipev IonoraiMaster Chief Droid Engineer
Federal Ore and Petrochemical Mining Corporation
Vendor located on Corellia at -2187 -4460


"I will tell you this, Droids (and DE's) are going to be the MAIN feature for the January publish. We will be fixing alot of things and adding combat droids.Yes, talk is cheap." - JustG - 11/25/2003
jol69
Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:27 pm
#50

Drashk's Proposed Droid Certification System will certainly need tweaking, and adjustment. However, implementing the ability to use Droids into the already existing professions is the correct way to do this. The Droid Handler Profession might just be the Devs worst idea yet, and that is quite an accomplishment in and of itself.



~ Eseex Aptopack: Master Image Designer, Aspiring Carbineer~
darkmane
Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:04 am
#51

Drashk's system is interesting, here is a competing idea (Reminder point #3 is kind of silly, but I was brainstorming):


Sub CL10 droids: Everyone can use them, non-combat droids are automatically CL1 (A 10k HAM MSE droid that runs from fights is not a game balance altering droid)


For over CL10 droids AND creatures I suggest this:


1) The new droid certifications go into the Squad Leader tree and a Master Squad leader can handle the same level as a Master CH, with the same progressions.


Justification: THese are "Military level" droids, Squad leaders are the most militaristic profession and they are "used" to commanding large groups.


2) For both BE and DE add cerifications that allow them to deal with CL(Max CL of CH or SL/2) creatures and droids respectively. THis occurs with no increase in the number of creatures/droids that they can have out.


Justification: THey deal with these creatures on a daily basis in a controlled environment, this allows them to exercise better control with these beings than an inexperienced person might.


3) This is unrelated to the first two changes and would probably be harder to implement:
If a CL 50 droid is given to a SL (Or whomever has the certification) it works fine, however if it is traded to a DE it's stats adjust downward to CL 25. If it is traded back its stats go up, if it is traded to someone with out any skill, it becomes a CL10 creature.


Justification: DEs and SLs know the strengths and weaknesses of the droids and are able to command them well enough to limit them thus giving them the perception of having more effective statistics in combat.

progman63
Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:31 pm
#52

First off, I have one issue with the entire situation here. And I'm not trying to be a jerk. Perhaps I missed something.



Drashk,


Are you telling us that you are proposing DE changes on the Corr Forum that have not been discussed in the DE forum, and that DE do not have access to the Corr Forum so cannot take part in the discussion???


That seems like a self-serving conflict of interest.


No matter how good the idea might be.



Now, to the issue of ANY cert system that is placed into the existing skill trees of other professions....


Players will not have to take any skills or expend any skill points except the ones they already have to gain skills to use combat droids.


This will cause obvious imbalances since the fact of the matter is that every item used in combat already requires players to expend skill points to gain them - including creatures.


I do not see how any type of cert system can be added to all existing professions without avoiding this problem.










"When Sony and Lucas set out, we said, How can we do this and not make another EQ? We didn't want it to be all about Luke, or combat, or lock our players into a class. So we created a system that would allow players to switch professions during the game, and there would be a lot of gameplay around making that change. If you want to go from architect to scout we've created a system to make that happen."
Julio Torres


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