Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droids should have Droid Skill Trees (thread #2)
If you have read Thunderhearts posts on this subject you would see that using significant skillpoints/XP is a requirement for any idead to be considered. This is not the fundamental problem of a DH profession. Most people, inclucing me, hate the idea of a Droid Handler profession forcountless reasons.
The difference here is that anyone can have any droid relative to how much time,skillpoints,and XP they put in to their droid. It is not a droidhandler profession. You would invest in a particular droid and not gain some general droid handling skill bonus which makes no sense anyway. Anyone can control a droid, it takes no skill. A creature on the other hand takes skill to tame and control etc.
This adds to the Starwars theme, a droid has personality and has a master. Everyone can who can afford one can have one. A droid should be more than just a pet.
Not to be mean, but the rest of your post wont work simply because of the requirements TH posted and is bit of attempted hijacking. One thread already had to be abandoned because of too many offtopic posts, please stay on topic.
A lot of this is a repost from the original thread. But I think it is still valid, because there are still some points that I would like to contest. Specifically, using skill points from the player.
Lets keep this simple.
- Droids have skill points – spent on droid specific skill boxes.
- Players provide experience points – similar to elite profession requirements – to fill those skill boxes in.
- Droids become great investments in themselves, not throwaway disposables.
- It brings levity to droids. It isn't "An Assasin Droid", it is "AD-58: My Assasin Droid".
- Everyone can use droids at some level.
With this system, we can havedroids thatare basically real NPC's, rather than profession tools. The droid progresses seperately, although not completely independant, of the owner. Instead of leveling myself up, I am leveling up the droid. This isn't using player's skill points, because it isn't a skill. It is using player experience, because you are teaching the droid. It gives something that is almost even akin to content. End-game kind of stuff.
Instead of making droids mindless tools, you would then have a personal investment in a droid.It becomes more useful as the player progresses. When I show off my powerful droid, it commands some respect. Even our utility droids could benefit from this idea. The hard caps can be expanded by experience.
The droid has two different professions that it can embark on and eventually master. Novice Utility Droid, or Novice Combat Droid. The droid has skill trees that are essentially the same experience requirements as those of any elite profession’s requirements. The player spends experience points to gain more of the droid’s skill boxes, and progression provides significant, tangible benefits as it “levels up”.
The Utility Droid profession (again – the droid’s profession and skill boxes) requires the player to spend profession XP (that they themselves gain) to acquire more skill boxes. Medical XP, crafting XP, smuggling XP, or any non-combat XP can purchase these boxes, and the master box can be purchased with apprenticeship XP, just like elite professions do. Hard caps can then be expanded, or other uses unlocked as the droid's skill progresses. A novice cannot have a master droid. XP caps already prevent this.
The Combat Droid profession (for the droid – this is a player controlled NPC – think Knights of the Old Republic) requires the player to spend weapons and combat XP to purchase skill boxes that provide tangible offensive and defensive capabilities to the droid. Things like counterattack dodge, etc., along with HAM benefits or something of the like. Also could be tied to the level or types of armor / weapons the droid could be outfitted (upgraded) with. A novice cannot have a master droid. XP caps already prevent this.
These “Droid Professions” would be structured like the player’s professions are structured, in that there is a novice box, followed by four tiers leading to a master box.This would obviously take the same amount of time, if not longer, than gaining a master level for the player professions. (I would actually lean towards three tiers of weapons XP and one tier of combat XP, just like with elite combat professions) As a result, that droid at "Master Droid" contributes a significant amount to the team. This is an investment that could definitely be powerful, but not free, or even cheap.
This, I think, couldn’t be more Star Wars, for one thing. It also meets your requirements:
- Any player can handle any pet or droid as long as its CL 10 or below.
Easy. The droid starts at CL 10. No insta-uberness here. Without any further player contribution, the droid is, and stays at, CL 10.
- Any pet/droid above level 10 has to have a significant skill point/experience point expenditure.
Again, the requirement here is met. The player has to spend experience points at a significant rate in order to increase the skill levels of the droid. The only matter of contention that could possibly arise is that you are spending the droid’s skill points, but the player’s experience. But really, in order to master your droid's profession, you DO have to spend your own skill points. Think about it. You would have to essentially master your elite combat profession twice in order to gain a single "uber" droid.Unless you master, you can't get past the XP caps. Wouldn't this alleviate the need for a skill points expenditure? The droid has skill points to spend, but the player has to earn levels PER DROID. A Creature Handler skills up one time and has an unlimited supply of powerful creatures. With this proposal, you skill up one time and you get one droid. We are talking about over a million points of experience spent on an investment, an NPC, not an ability.
- Reference CH's and the fact they have to spend points for an entire profession to get those benefits.
I will definitely reference, although I don’t think it has to be parallel by necessity. The CH spends points – XP and Skill points – to get an influx of creatures that are not limited. In other words, they have that profession and can get essentially unlimited “tools” from an endless supply in the wild. You get this one droid that you spend a considerable investment on, and it grows with you over time. If you want another droid, you have to go through and help your new droid master a droid profession [again]. That looks to me like the CH has the far better deal! Now I will note here that I believe that with this system droids should require maintenance of some kind, but not be disposable in any form. DE’s could repair or upgrade them as necessary. No permadeath please!
- Factions pets (which could be some droids) will be added at a later date.
Same rules apply. This makes things a bit more complicated because of Overt / Covert status and faction pets, but has the potential for enhancing the experience. A master Droid that is a faction pet? *drool*
I think the skill point expenditure is a technicality with this scheme. You can't have a Master Utility Droid unless you have mastered autility profession. You can't have a master Combat Droid unless you have mastered an elite combat profession. What is the difference? Just think about it.
progman63 wrote:I don't know why they would automatically lose everything they learned when they're transfered to a new owner. It doesn't make any sense to me.
BUT, this excellent idea still does not answer the issue that players are required to spend skill points to gain skills and use items, as with creatures and most every other skill in the game, If you want a skill to use and item, you need to use skill points.
The reason droids would lose everything they learned when transfered is because it would be using the player's skill points, hence balancing the game.
When your droid is ready to level up another box it will cost the player's skill points for his droid to level. Its the best solution to the problem. Basically the droid's profession would be just like one of your own professions, costing you skill points.
Everyone can use the droids. The droids cost player's skill points and takes time to level up. Fits exactly what the Devs are needing and most DEs are wanting.
-norax
Dagrin wrote:
It's probably just me, but I would contest the concept that it is unrealistic for the user to require knowledge to use a droid. Did you know how to use a computer from the day you were born? Working with a droid would take someof level of experience. You have to become accustomed to what commands it was able to accept and how it will react to your input.
You are thinking of robots. Droids are different. None of the droids in starwars took any skill to use or required any specific command structure. You talk to them like a person and they are are obedient, there purpose is to serve their master.
Dagrin also wrote:
There a several alternative means to balance the game without forcing the player to abandon their current progress to explore new options.
I don't think this proposed method does this. Players are not forced to abandon anything. If they have zero skillpoints they have an option to give up some of their skills in exchange for upgrading a droid. If they have left over skillpoints they can spend them on their droid upgrades. If they want a top of the line droid they can focus more on one profession and have a droid that augments their abilities in that profession. They can have the droid with no upgrades at no cost. Some people will be willing to do this and some won't. Options and customization are what this idea is about, no one is forced to give something up to learn a whold new droid handler profession.
Exactly. Droids SHOULD be used to compliment one's profession. Controlling droids should NOT be that individual's profession.
blaisedinsd wrote:
Options and customization are what this idea is about, no one is forced to give something up to learn a whold new droid handler profession.
I am pretty convinced now that droids will never reach their potential in this game.
While I dolove this game, I am pretty convinced this game will never reach it's potential.
I could only endorse this after hearing the answers to the following:
Why do you think that after one to three weeks every combat player _wouldn't_ have a high level combat droid that they'd ground up to master, resulting in a great overall increase in the player base's combat effectiveness?
Why do you think that this addresses the complaints of a large faction of the anti-DH crowd, namely that in order to defend themselves from durnis/womp rats/rancors, they need high-powered assault droids? If they don't have the skill points to get a combat profession for defense, they don't have the skill points to get a combat profession as a pre-certification for having a combat droid.
Do you realize that every single skill that the droid learns would have to be tied to a user? B/c otherwise, an informal profession of DH would spring up anyway!
DH's would be combat guys with multiple elite skills who buy five droids at a time, take them out and train them up, and then when they get those droids qualified for the very last box in the skill tree ("master"), sell the droid to the highest bidder. The lucky new droid owner would simply get it trained by a master and "stamped" to them...no effort required, just credits, which are basically as plentiful as water.
At least that is how I understand this. Which is not to say I understand it very well, as it is very complicated.
Happy to hear clarification. It seems like an idea with potential, but it seems to fail on some major issues (balance) and with something so complicated, there are going to be a variety of ways to exploit the system.