Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: After Reading the Posts this Morning, a Compromise Proposal
Ok - I'm an outsider looking in. I'm not a DE and have no intention of being a DE. I am a MCH which I will be giving up because we we're considered too powerful and they have neutered the pets so much that they aren't as usefull as they use to be so I can go spend points somewhere elsewhile still keeping almost as good a pet out as I can at Master. So why waste the points.
The point to that is - be careful what you wish for. I have no client base for pets anymore. It's almost a distraction for other players to have a CL 10 out as it dies very quickly - a probot is better to have - will take far more damage than a CL 10 pet and deals almost the same damage.
Now with this in mind I think that everyone could be happy. To balance the scales of combat they could add a secondary tree out the Novice box of any tree they wanted to so that every profession could take a "droid handler path" and use skill points in it to obtain better droids. There is nothing wrtitten that says a tree must have 4 branches and 4 limbs to each branch. You can prune the dang tree anyway you want. And the developers can place that tree along any other branch they want to unlock it. That is the beauty of skill trees.
Now - by using skill points up - in say a two branch tree - to control higher level droids - the PC would have to lose some skills from somewhere. As a CH, I would have to lose some of my CH skills - giving me lower level pets along with my droid. The higher droid I want the lower levels my creatures get. The same would be true of all professions. Want a Droid (I really do want one) then give something up. Although I would say that CH's should not get a DH branch anywhere along their tree. And all pets should be limited to a cumulative level.
Now to help out the DE's - they should receive added bonuses for DL (droid levels) than any other profession - since you know them best. You might also get added points for their accuracy or their firing speed - something along those lines or number of droids out at one time. These would be inherent bonuses built into the Master Droid engineer box or top boxes of your profession. Whatever you andthe Devs decide.
If truth be known - I would have designed the CH the same way - with BE's getting bonuses along with Scouts/Rangers since the know the animals the best. Then there would never have had to be a giant nerf on CH's because it would have been balanced before. There would not just be a CH profession - in other words - but I wasn't a developer.
Now - bonuses could also be given into the Master Boxes of some other professions - like BH - (they are known to use droids alot.) and maybe commandos - you guys could discuss all of this. This would keep it balanced and pretty fair. You get to use your droids and maybe better than anyone else. You still get a market for your droids. No DH profession that may become too powerful.
It's only what I see - that could happen - which may just satisfy everyone. You guys can discuss where the branches go - how many branches - who gets branches - etc......
This way - though - you could even place a branch outside the entertaiers box - why not have a droid who could play some tunes or enhance an entertainer in other ways or as a bodyguard. Give a box to doctors so they could have higher level medical droids - so on and so on - the realm of possibilities is endless. Oh - I never will be a DE - but I do want to buy them from you. I'ld also like something better than a probot.
The decision is in yoiur hands. You can also ignore this if it seems too foolish. Just something that came to me. And if someone else has proposed it - They must be a brilliant person 
Thanks for reading and thinking.
Ywi wrote:
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Second, you create a new, small skill tree which opens up whenever you master a hybrid or combat profession. All combat professions lead to the same tree, so there is no risk of someone doing the tree once. So you hit master TKA, you know have access to the new tree, let's call it "Droid Use".
The droid use tree is a simple, single line tree which has roughly 15-20 points of skills in it. The specific mechanics of the tree would need to be worked out but it would basically allow you to use better droids in combat as you went up the tree culminating with the droideka (or equivalent) at the top rank.
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Ywi Odiwovvi
Master Droid Engineer
Corbantis
How about making access to the mini-droid treebehave like politician, where you need App XP to get it? Or maybe you need a certain amount of Combat XP along with some App XP?
1. This is just like dabbling in an eventual droid handler tree
I don't want it to be. The idea is to have the sweet spot of design / balance work from the devs in an area where most every class can benefit. Having a full droid handler tree means you need CL50+ droids (to justify the skill points) which might be a tad excessive. In keeping the *entire* tree under 33 points, we can ensure that every combat class has the ability to spend the points and get the droids.
2. Proposals to put the tree at the novice level and just use APP XP.
I don't think this is realistic as such a small tree would be very, very, powerful to someone with such low skills. Remember the reason for our very first probot nerf? The probots were making the early game too easy for folks. I like having it open up at an elite combat mastery (and master DE) as a reward for specializing.
3. Proposals to open this up to other master elites, not just combat.
If the devs are ok with this, I'm ok with this. Again, you would open up the profession once you master an elite profession and you would not be able to do the tree more than once.
4. Proposals that this whole idea is bunk, and everyone should have all the droids (or a pure cert system).
The devs seem reluctant to do this as it basically means making the whole game harder for everyone (to balance everyone getting more powerful). This mini-profession idea seems to be a good compromise and allows cool droids for most players (except the very new, and even they can use a probot, which based on what I am hearing, beats most CH/BE CL10 pets due to the AR2).
5. Proposals that this mini-prof have prereqs like engineering or some other skill tree
I think it should remain without prereqs except either mastering an elite/hybrid combat profession, or mastering DE (or any elite profession as discussed in #3). The reason is I want to include every combat profession. Again, with BH only having 33 points left, getting the engineering line would leave them with 4 points (that's a pretty skimpy mini-profession).
6. Concerns that this will be unbalanced with CH folks talking this tree too.
This is easily solved by making the CL system cross all types of pets. So a CH who did the mini-profession could use a droid as a replacement for one of his CL 30 pets, but not get another one in addition. Yes this means they don't get more power by adding the mini-profession, but I think that's necessary for balance.
So to summarize the proposal:
* ~30 point mini-profession opening up at elite combat mastery, master DE, or any elite mastery (pending #3).
* After mastering the mini-profession the player would have access to droids up to around CL 30 (8K HAM, AR1, 30% resists, 200ish damage (based on current combat balance)). As they progress through the tree they get to use some other type of combat droid (or the same droid, but without upgrades, etc.)
* Potential if we went with a +DroidLevels model, vs. a specific droid cert to allow multiple called droids and to give certain professions +DroidLevel bonuses in exchange for their knowledge or specialization (Commando, Droid Engineer, Bounty Hunter, etc.)
That's pretty much it. Scads of specifics would need to be figured out still. Keep the ideas coming!
Thanks,
Ywi Odiwovvi
Master Droid Engineer
Corbantis
I don't get it, why don't you want cl60 droids? Whats the point of adding a fancy little attraction like a cl30 droid? If you're going to add combat droids, add COMBAT droids, not these bloody wimps. A CH pet is a tank, a droid should be more offense than defense, low ham, high damage!
It appears to me, the DE's want mini-metallic pets out of this deal.
I am not sure this was brought up as there are far too many posts to wade thru but what about....
Droids past CL 10 can only be out if no weapon is eqipped or since we are getting weapon lvls, Weap + Droid <= Certain Lvl
So a master pistoleer if wants a CL15 droid then he would have to equip a very low lvl gun.
And this way dont limit setting a lvl within combat professions but ALL professions so for example a master architect with no equipped weapons could own a > CL 10 droid . Maybe non combat class would count as less for a master lvl so they couldnt go hunting on their own but it would allow them a means to protect themselves without having to adopt combat proficiencies.
Also maybe a MDE cld get bonus to their role so they can use a slighty higher than normal droid that was set for non combat classes.
I know this brings lvls into a system supposedly w/o them but their are hidden lvls already that the game calculates to get missions, not sure if can code this in so easily but would solve the problem and no need a new profession plus allow droids to made past CL 10.
As a pistoleer doc, this would be handy as I could unequip gun and let droid fight in my spot as I heal comdrades or drag them away from mobs.
Combat droids shldnt equal all animals on the planet I mean they were outlawed supposedly, I think that players just wantted a chance to have them equal the animal pets they cld use and not see so many using animals over droids plus some variety to the probot.
Thunderheart wrote:
AdlerTagmann wrote:
This idea is a good compromise.
I think making the mini droid tree available to MDEs is a good idea.
Perhaps a compromise on level could be say one CL30 or 2 CL15 or 3 CL10 or 6 CL5 out at a time to make even more variety.
Perhaps make the highest droid 75% of the highest pet then use the above to allow more flexibility.
Also allow all players to have ONE non combat capable droid out in addition to their allowed combat droids. MDEs could have 2 non combat droids out at a time.
Just some thoughts
I agree. This direction has the strongest likelihood of success, but it will depend on a couple of things. It has to be put in so it can be balanced with the combat system as it will be and not as it is (that makes assessing things kind of tricky).
Secondly, handling droids is bigger than a single tree, but smaller than a whole profession. Technologically whether its 1 tree, 2 trees or the typical 4 trees is going to have a bearing on things (as it relates to coding the changes).
Going forward, keep mulling these things over. Runesabre had to go out of town on personal business but I know you guys really want to voice your opinions on this (though in reality we are a week or two away from any kind of development).
Im working on the In Dev post now. I would encourage you folks to play devil's advocate with the arguments and look at everything from all angles.
I always thougth the word 'tree' referred to an entire profession and the word 'branch' referred to individual skills (one of four) within the tree
am I wrong?
Is there a way for the Dev's to give droids a "Type" or a Class such as Combat, Medical, Utility, etc?
Instead of it just being a player-distinction the game could distiguish between each type of droid, thus making them easier to group and control their balance.
You could limit each player to having one droid out at a time, or one of each "type" of droid out at any time.
Regular[non-DE] characters would be limited to having one droid of anytype out still, but Droid Engineer skills could increase the number of droids out at any given time, yet still be limited by "type".
A Master Droid Engineer for example might be able to have 1 Combat droid, 1 Medical Droid, and 2 utility droids out. This gives MDE's a special ability that no other profession has, and at the same time limits people from climbing the DE tree just to get more "combat" power(though someone could possibly get boxes in DE to have 1 combat and 1 medic droid out at the same time).
So, as long as having 1 of the most powerful combat droid is not imbalancing to the "combat arena" then having a combat droid will give the same benefit to a newbie player as it does to a master combat profession.
Master Droid Eng.'s will still be able to have more "total" droids out at once, so they will be able to perform more droid-tasks than other players but this won't make them any more powerful in combat than another player (that has a combat droid too).
Madrox wrote:
You could limit each player to having one droid out at a time, or one of each "type" of droid out at any time.
Regular[non-DE] characters would be limited to having one droid of anytype out still, but Droid Engineer skills could increase the number of droids out at any given time, yet still be limited by "type".
A Master Droid Engineer for example might be able to have 1 Combat droid, 1 Medical Droid, and 2 utility droids out. This gives MDE's a special ability that no other profession has, and at the same time limits people from climbing the DE tree just to get more "combat" power(though someone could possibly get boxes in DE to have 1 combat and 1 medic droid out at the same time.
I like the idea, but since we have to spend so much skillpoints on MDE, at the master level they could make it 2 combats even, one med. and one util because honestly, most people only need one util. out at a time anyways.
I am kind of torn between makinf a new skill tree and incorparating the abilities of droid handeling into the all the peofessions already out there. Like, in order to use a level one droid, the player must have all 4 tier onr boxes, for level 2 droid, all 4 tier 2 boxes, ect up to master, or just level 4 even.
Now, that idea would make anyone able to use droids and not have to spend skillpoints to have the special ability to use and manipulate droids, so if that was the whole deal with the seprate skill tree then ignore that, just an idea.
I do have a question or 2 tho: When are these proposed changes going to happen? Are the new droids going to be like really extremely strong like an ig-88, or a droideka or just a battle droid even, and have similar abilities to creatures? Will it be like, once one has a droid they will never need another one, or will there bee enough decay to give us MDE's buisness for longer then the 1st week these changes occur?