Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Our DE Correspondent
Grrr.. no edit button.
He has stated at all times which hat he is wearing - DE or corrorspondant.
The last thing I'd want is for Drashk, being a fellow DE, not to have a voice. But he has to understand that his voice carries a certain weight with it. Drashk's opinions are held to a differnt level than everyone elses. He should really think twice before voicing an opinion so radically differnt than the rest of the community's.
I thought we were going to fight this thing, we were all united against it. I never completely lost hope and gave up until I saw Drashk argue for DH.
-norax
- quit the game
- quit DE
- adapt to the new playstyle
Yes, some people will leave, others will stay, and new people will join the ranks. This is an uncertain and irritating time/space to be in for DEs, as we see all that *could* be slowly being eroded by a severe lack of vision by SOE. But thems the breaks. Noone I know who has dealt with any Verant/SOE game before is suprised by how messed up things are. We're just ticked because this profession and in general this game has so much potential that is getting piddled down the drain.
SOE needs to learn some lessons from other customer facing organisations and realize that being forthright about your flaws will not reduce your playerbase, it will only improve their opinion ofand staying power with you.
Well, that's more than my 2 credits.
--D'Ruk
Sketh wrote:
Do I think he has avoided the appearance of bias? No, or else this post and others like it wouldn't be here. As the DE correspondent he is certainly entitled to his opinion. As the DE correspondent, he should not be voicing it here. Especially at this time and on an issue that is so universally unpopular.
Disagree. He has stated at all times which hat he is wearing - DE or
Many of Drashk's ideas are good ones - and even those that I don't agree with or like are at least well thought out. It was part of the reasons that he was chosen. He also has more information than he does.
Do I agree with all of his ideas? No. Do I think that they lead to productive discussion? Yes.
My point was that the fact that we are having this discussion pretty much proves that he hasn't avoided this perception. Again, I don't think he's doing the best he can, but a person in his postion, under these circumstances needs to be above reproach on this issue, and he's not.
I think again it all comes down to ethics and personalities. I don't think Drashk is doing a bad job. I think he's in a bad position. I certainly don't think he is not representing our feelings to the devs. Given the same circumstances with me as the correspondent, I would have probably gone out in a blaze of glory, but that, even though it would have been satisfying, would not have helped the DE community.
If there is a lack of ethics, it is on the part of the devs for putting him in this position. The lack of trust on the part of the devs about discussion of in-concept ideas with the player base on the whole puts Drashk in the position where you beleive him to have aquired an unethical appearance.
I agree with the fact that the blame partially rests with the devs and mainly with TH. But the blame also rests with the correspondents that allow this system to continue. No one can be taken advantage of in this manner without their consent. I think that some of the correspondents are willing to take this to stay a correspondent. Those that don't have already left.
Fribble wrote:
But that's the fundamental issue Sketh, if DrashK is acting on "secret information", then he is NOT representing our profession. Otherwise he would come out with the real information.
He can't. He signed an NDA, and will have his account banned if he breaks it.
What's SOE going to do? Kick him off correspondent for telling the truth?
Probably not only corrorspondent, but also out of the game.
The fact that there is a layer between SOE and the player base speaks volumes in and of itself. The fact that SOE implicitly or explicitly requires our liasion to curb his communication with the player base due to 'secret meetings/communication' is both reprehensible and pathetic.
I agree completely here. The best we, and Drashk, can do is... well, the best we can do.
As I have stated before, I have a feeling that a lot of "his" ideas are the best way he can get around the communication barriers that SOE imposes.
I do think DrashK has been open about where he differs on this issue, but I also agree that is a fine line, and obviously one that some people feel he has crossed.
I think that part of the, shall we say, negative support, expressed in this thread is because people aren't getting what they want. (Note: I want a cert system, and beleive it can work).
So, instead of trying to work with Drashk as the only intermediary that the devs will acknowledge, they say, "We aren't getting our way, so shoot the messanger".
We ain't gonna get certs peeps. Drashk can't give out all the information he has. So, work with him.
I also feel this is why Sin left the post, because of the unreal expections of SOE to essentially withhold information/lie to the playerbase. In a word, this job sucks, and I don't envy DrashK his position.
I agree here. I think that she was told the situation that Drashk is now aware of, and just couldn't stomache it.
I think that no matter who got the position, they would face the same situation.
personally, I'm in favor of full disclosure, even if it ticks of SOE and the players. Lay it all out, even the uncomfortable facts. Just tell us what the real deal is and get on with it!! Ifwe knew for a fact one way or another what the heck was going on, two thirds of the issues currently would disappear.
If we got full disclosure from Drashk, we would be another month without a corrorspondant, and Drashk would be playing FFXI.
The devs won't give us full disclosure - we are users to be managed, not real human beings who pay to play the game, and have good ideas.
We'd either:
- quit the game
- quit DE
- adapt to the new playstyle
Yes, some people will leave, others will stay, and new people will join the ranks. This is an uncertain and irritating time/space to be in for DEs, as we see all that *could* be slowly being eroded by a severe lack of vision by SOE. But thems the breaks. Noone I know who has dealt with any Verant/SOE game before is suprised by how messed up things are. We're just ticked because this profession and in general this game has so much potential that is getting piddled down the drain.
Actually, I have seen many of the same things from Turbine in AC2.
SOE needs to learn some lessons from other customer facing organisations and realize that being forthright about your flaws will not reduce your playerbase, it will only improve their opinion ofand staying power with you.
Agree with you here. However, we are in this boat - and have to play by their rules. Flaming Drashk is not going to help.
Well, that's more than my 2 credits.
--D'Ruk
Do I think he has avoided the appearance of bias? No, or else this post and others like it wouldn't be here. As the DE correspondent he is certainly entitled to his opinion. As the DE correspondent, he should not be voicing it here. Especially at this time and on an issue that is so universally unpopular.
Disagree. He has stated at all times which hat he is wearing - DE or
Many of Drashk's ideas are good ones - and even those that I don't agree with or like are at least well thought out. It was part of the reasons that he was chosen. He also has more information than he does.
Do I agree with all of his ideas? No. Do I think that they lead to productive discussion? Yes.
My point was that the fact that we are having this discussion pretty much proves that he hasn't avoided this perception. Again, I don't think he's doing the best he can, but a person in his postion, under these circumstances needs to be above reproach on this issue, and he's not.
So, you want a secratary, not a thinking individual in the position. Someone to just compile lists.
But that precludes his trying to take advantage of what he knows from the Corrorspondant forums.
If you just had a secratary to take down everything we wanted, we would never get anything. Take certs. We want them. He goes to the devs, and says, well, the DE's want certs. They say no. Next week, he goes back and says the same thing. Devs stop listening.
I think again it all comes down to ethics and personalities. I don't think Drashk is doing a bad job. I think he's in a bad position. I certainly don't think he is not representing our feelings to the devs. Given the same circumstances with me as the correspondent, I would have probably gone out in a blaze of glory, but that, even though it would have been satisfying, would not have helped the DE community.
If there is a lack of ethics, it is on the part of the devs for putting him in this position. The lack of trust on the part of the devs about discussion of in-concept ideas with the player base on the whole puts Drashk in the position where you beleive him to have aquired an unethical appearance.
I agree with the fact that the blame partially rests with the devs and mainly with TH. But the blame also rests with the correspondents that allow this system to continue. No one can be taken advantage of in this manner without their consent. I think that some of the correspondents are willing to take this to stay a correspondent. Those that don't have already left.
Beleive me, if you bounced through the candidates till you got who you wanted, who would have the appearance of propriety, you would not like what you got.
You would not have a corrorspondant for months. You wouldn't know what they really thought.
I trust someone like Drashk who, in all his posts, says things like "This is the DE speaking, not the corrorspondant, and I know many of you don't like this idea" than someone who plays a robotic roll on the DE forums. Consider this - at least you know what he is thinking. I actually trust him all the more for hhe fact that he comes out and says, "Hey, I know you don't agree, but here is my ideas. Don't worry, I know what yours are (and provides a list) and this is what I will tell the devs what you are thinking"
Sketh wrote:
My point was that the fact that we are having this discussion pretty much proves that he hasn't avoided this perception. Again, I don't think he's doing the best he can, but a person in his postion, under these circumstances needs to be above reproach on this issue, and he's not.
So, you want a secratary, not a thinking individual in the position. Someone to just compile lists.
But that precludes his trying to take advantage of what he knows from the Corrorspondant forums.
If you just had a secratary to take down everything we wanted, we would never get anything. Take certs. We want them. He goes to the devs, and says, well, the DE's want certs. They say no. Next week, he goes back and says the same thing. Devs stop listening.
Heh...I just caught it in your reply, but the line should read "I think he's doing the best he can".
Please understand, I'm not saying Drashk is doing a bad job. I don't have an issue with the way he is handling the DH issue with the devs. My sole point was that due to the nature of his position, and the fact that he is being torn this way by the devs, he should avoid taking sides on issues like this. To go back to my previous example, if I were to accept a large gift from one of my vendors, I know that it wouldn't change my decision as to wether to give them the business or not. The problem is that someone could point to that and say that it did. That's what is happening here. Whenever you find yourself in this type of position, you have to keep everything on a certain level. Should it be this way? Of course not, but this is the hand we've been delt from a company that obviously sees the players in an adverserial light. If they trusted us, neither the correspondents or the players would have these issues to deal with.
GnomeAd wrote:
Please understand, I'm not saying Drashk is doing a bad job. I don't have an issue with the way he is handling the DH issue with the devs. My sole point was that due to the nature of his position, and the fact that he is being torn this way by the devs, he should avoid taking sides on issues like this.
If he doesn't come up with counter ideas based on the information that he has from the devs, and just reports what we want, we will never see any progress. The devs have obviously said NO to certs. They have pretty much said that here on the player accessable boards.
So, you want Drashk to go back and say, hey, everybody still wants certs?
I beleive that Drashk's approach is the ONLY way we will get any input in to the developement.
If he keeps going back and saying, they want certs, then the devs will just write him off, and we will have an even worse BH profession that you can immagine. AND it will have skills in it that belong to DE (e.g., droid repair is the main fear I have right now).
You see it as taking sides. I see it as advocacy along lines of thuoght that he knows at least stand a chance with the devs.
To go back to my previous example, if I were to accept a large gift from one of my vendors, I know that it wouldn't change my decision as to wether to give them the business or not. The problem is that someone could point to that and say that it did. That's what is happening here. Whenever you find yourself in this type of position, you have to keep everything on a certain level.
I don't think your analogy holds up. Drashk gets no reward for his work - certainly not from SOE, and now, negative reward from people here.
Should it be this way? Of course not, but this is the hand we've been delt from a company that obviously sees the players in an adverserial light. If they trusted us, neither the correspondents or the players would have these issues to deal with.
True - and SOE obviously does not only not trust us, but considers as a detriment. It is all about control of the player base from their perspective, and low development costs, and new boxes sold.
In closing, I urge you to put yourself in the corrorspondant's shoes, and think consider what you would do in the following scenario:
Corrorspondant: We want plan A.
Devs: No way in hell. You are going to get B, and btw, we are going to announce it.
Cor: They will hate that.
(Devs announce B, and find that everyone does hate it)
Devs: OK, we need you to go back to the community and get us some solutions. But no way to A - and it MUST be some variant on B. But you can't tell them that it is set in stone, or the details of B that we have told you. Oh, and B MUST include B1 and B2 as part of it - but you can't tell them that either. You see, we have already coded that much of it up.
Ball is now in your court....
The role of a correspandant ISN'T to be a mindless turkey that passes on information from the community to the developers.
It's a role to help mold the community, unit it (which has never been possible with DE) and try to turn arguments into constructive ideas and criticism.
The best correspandant is one that DOES have his/her own personal views, DOES air those views, openly dissagrees with others BUT is still willing to pass on what others are saying .. not just what s/he personaly feels.
I don't know Drashk that well, but what I've seen seems to me that he's fighting pretty **edit** hard to make this profession what so many of us wanted it to be 7 months ago.
What is with you nay sayers?!
Your whole stupid premise is about some retarded guidline about the correspondant is not supposed to argue his views. When the rest of us in support of Drashk (funny how it seems thatthose of usin support of Drashk's performance seem to have the ability of deductive reasoning) show that he is fair about presenting DE ideas to the devs, that just somehow doesnt seem to matter at all to you people. It's like trying to reason with an autistic retard with excessive compulsive disorder, because you get so **edit** hung up on technicalities your stubborn dogma doesnt allow you to see beyond that period!
Dude I cant stand the droid handler proposal, but did you even READ his modification to this! Basically he has pretty much managed to work it so that most concerns we have are solved! But NOOO! We cant have that cause it is his opinion and that is against the rules, lets throw that away and continue to bash our heads against the wall cause the hot water will burn the baby!
We need a thread fast where we can sum up and compromise our issues about what we want out of the next publishes, before our disease of wrapping **edit** around the axle over technicallities causes us to piss away our chance to make this profession fun. Guess what, it wont be Drashk's fault either. Threads like this are not even close to what we need to be posting about right now!