Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Have our goals been clouded?
Jenden wrote:
I'm not sure how you equate giving us combat droids with fixing the profession.
Adding combat droids is just the start, along with bug fixes, etc. However, until better combat droids are in, the profession is still broken in my book if other issues ahve been addressed.
If they give us combat droids they won't touch the utility stuff, which should still be the primary function of droids.
This is a groundless assumption. Combat ability is utility. That's why "do you have any combat droids" is the number one function we're asked about. We only sell more crafting droids 'cause no one wants our probots.
Count them up. You've seen way more combat droids -- entire armies -- in the movies than service droids. (Though, lest I be misinterpreted,I believe there is a place for both). Not sure where the utility argument comes from.
If you really think there should be combat droids then lets try to get a system similar to one I saw on another post. I believe it was something along the lines of the droid came without a gun, and you could equip it with whatever gun you were certified for (with a definate reduction in stats). Then, to complete the balance, have some kind of rating system where if it has so much armor, it can only have this level gun or below, where as this lesser armor gets you higher level guns.
Dunno that I agree with this exact system, but a game balance system is needed. Swapable guns seem most appropriate for Battle Roger Roger Droids. Droidekas have built in weapons.
Droid engineers have always had an ability that is incredibly special and unique in this game: the ability to make droids. But more specifically, it's not just about making droids. Like all artisans, the primary function of the profession is to release those unique products into the gaming environment. Whether it be through selling (most likely with merchant skills), giving them away, or just giving them to friends, a droid engineer's purpose in this game is to proliferate droids throughout SWG.
The problem is that, in pursuit of fullfilling this role, the droid engineer is incredibly hamstrung at the moment due to the lack of diversity in droid functions. There are crafting stations, medic modules, storage modules, relatively weak combat abilities, near-useless data modules, and marginally useful repair modules (oh and BH droids, heh). These functions appeal to a small percentange of professions, where there is great potential to have more functions appeal to many professions.
With the exception of chefs and arguably tailors, no artisan profession is presently as handicapped as DE. Lifting that handicap will involve first resolving all major bugs, and second adding more functionality to droid offerings.
Eutock wrote:
The problem is that, in pursuit of fullfilling this role, the droid engineer is incredibly hamstrung at the moment due to the lack of diversity in droid functions. There are crafting stations, medic modules, storage modules, relatively weak combat abilities, near-useless data modules, and marginally useful repair modules (oh and BH droids, heh). These functions appeal to a small percentange of professions, where there is great potential to have more functions appeal to many professions.
/agree
HEY!
I've already got about TEN threads stickied that deal with the whole combat droid argument!
Let's not hijack this thread and turn it into another useless debate on the same freakin subject.....
"Take it outside!"
The reason most of us became DE was the fact that we loved droids and wanted to build them and play with them in a game where we couldn't do that in Real Life. And we wanted to take part in the Star Wars universe - where droids ran free as far as the eye could see.
But I also wanted to be able to sell them so other people could play with them too. How many R2's can you make if all you're going to do is sit around and play with them yourself?
I think most of us knew before we got into this profession that we would not be making tons of money (well, actually, I thought I'd make SOME).
And the DE that have stuck around for all the toil and trouble we like to call a profession sure as heck didn't do it for the money. Greed has little to do with it.
Before you turn this into an "I made 500K the other day" bragging thread. Please don't. Some of us got money, mostof us don't.
I don't want to have piles of money I don't know what to do with. What good is that? You're house can only be so big, and you can only cram 250 items into it 
I just want to be able to pay my maint and maybe upgrade my harvesters, and my shop so I have a cool place to sell my droids.
The desire to be able to sell droids has less to do with greed than with being able to stand on your own two feet without relying on some form of second income to keep things running. Being able to do what you started out to do - build droids. At least for me.
Right now my typical day goes like this:
Should I sell some droids or play with my droids?
Or, if I have no droids, should I grind (soon to end) or build some droids if I have the resources?
Or, if I have no resources, should I do a harvester run, collectresources and pay the maint up?
Or, if I have no money, should I spend the day running missions so I can pay the maint up?
Am I selling droids so other people can play with them? No.
Am I playing with my droids? Not very often.
Am I building droids? Not usually.
Is this why I became a DE? No.
So why the heck am I doing this?
I'm spending more time with my gun and my harvesters than I am with my droids.
That just ain't right.
If I can build and sell droids, I don't care what kind, I'll be having fun.
That's my bottom line. And I'm not clouded about that in any way.
I'm not trying to stop you from getting the function, I'm trying to stop it from being limited. I don't see how DE-only droids helps our profession in any way, other then making some people feel special (if combat makes you feel special, join a combat profession). If they're going to give us combat droids at least make them benefit the profession. As far as the "great DE" thing, the post that I was replying to said to make us into a hybrid profession, good at combat and good at crafting, but not great at either (which is how hybrid professions work). So why should I have to sacrifice some of the crafting potential because you want combat abilities (yes, I know this goes both ways, but I think mine is a bit more valid since it started as and is currently a non-combat crafting profession). Never said we couldn't build new combat droids, don't think we should use them but thats still up for debate, and I don't see why it makes any sense at all to make them DE-only
EricTheGreat wrote:
I AM good (well decent) in combat. But I am not seeing this as a relevant issue. It's about droids and their potential. Droids have a wide variety of uses. Why do you want to stop us from getting a function that seems to be a significant part of droids inthe SW universe? Getting decent combat droids won't stop you from being a "great DE" (which means what? making medical modules and crafting stations all day? Then taking an hour every day to explain to customers how to use it? Oh wait, it's about the "happiness") There are better combat droids than the self-destructing probot. We should be able to build and use them.
I was referring to the post I was responding to, that proposed we become a hybrid profession, good at crafting and good at combat but not great at both. Therefore I meant that "great DE" comment as a great crafting profession (what DE currently is). As for being a great DE without combat droids, how can you be a great DE (crafting/sales proffession) if you can't sell your products. Being a DE has nothing to do with combat, so I'm not sure where this idea of DE-only combat droids is coming from (other than one random and poorly worded comment from the devs).
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
How can you be a great DE without great combat droids?
I already do this: In addition to Master DE and Artisan, I am a Novice Pistoleer, Guardsman, Field Responder, and Explorer. The only thing lacking is the kick @ass combat droids from the movies.
BTW, I resent the implication that combat DEs are not great DEs, though I realize it was probably an off-hand comment. My character is every bit as good of a DE as yours is, except mine is stealthier, faster, self-sufficient in healing, and holds his own when traveling with a decent pet. Swap my gurreck with a droideka and I'm set.
(ps Not sure what you mean by "Lets say DE's were raised up to great status as crafters". I'll reinterpret if your eleborations is different than what I understand it to be)
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Adding combat droids is just the start, along with bug fixes, etc. However, until better combat droids are in, the profession is still broken in my book if other issues ahve been addressed.
Didn't mean to imply don't add combat droids, I meant don't give us (DE-only) combat droids. This doesn't help the proffession as it is in any way (note I said as it is, if you want to argue that focus of the DE profession should change thats another argument).
This is a groundless assumption. Combat ability is utility. That's why "do you have any combat droids" is the number one function we're asked about. We only sell more crafting droids 'cause no one wants our probots.
Again, I meant utility as in able to be utilized by other people. non-DE-only combat droids would be utility droids.
Count them up. You've seen way more combat droids -- entire armies -- in the movies than service droids. (Though, lest I be misinterpreted,I believe there is a place for both). Not sure where the utility argument comes from.
Yes their are combat droids in the movies, yes we should be able to make combat droids, but yes, we should also be able to sell them (and by all rights shouldn't be able to use some of the strongest ones, but again, thats a whole other argument).
If you really think there should be combat droids then lets try to get a system similar to one I saw on another post. I believe it was something along the lines of the droid came without a gun, and you could equip it with whatever gun you were certified for (with a definate reduction in stats). Then, to complete the balance, have some kind of rating system where if it has so much armor, it can only have this level gun or below, where as this lesser armor gets you higher level guns.
Dunno that I agree with this exact system, but a game balance system is needed. Swapable guns seem most appropriate for Battle Roger Roger Droids. Droidekas have built in weapons.
In a case like droidekas where swappable guns doesn't make sense they'd need to be certed to just specific professions. A couple ideas I had for droidekas was either squad leader (they need some boost and their main purpose IS to lead things in combat) or, though probably not practical to implement or likely, cert them to city malitia members. It would give them the extra strength they need to keep peace in the city (again, not sure this would work too well).
Thanks Jenden.
Does anyone have anything to post on topic?
Or should we just start another combat droid thread?
Perhaps somewhere else?
(I could provide you guys with the links to at least 5 or 6 other combat droid threads if you need somewhere to go....)
Have we resolved the whole combat droid issue yet?
Or are we presenting new information that hasn't been available before?
It's obvious that you, Eric and Sodan just can't let the other have the last word.
So let's turn this into your own personal little debate thread.
The rest of us will leave so you three can be alone.
I think that prior threads have discussed the delta between people who view DE as a crafting profession and those that want/view DE as a combat profession and those that see DE as a hybrid between the two. It is unlikely that there will ever be a single consolidated view. There are people who are CH just because they love the concept of taming the bigger beasts and having/selling them as pets, people who view CH entirely as a combat profession, and those who see it as some of both. Why should/will DE be any different?
Well, technically, right now DE cannot really be viewed as a combat profession since the only REAL combat droid we have is a fair to good tank, and little to nothing else. But SOE is talking about boosting the combat side of our profession, which would certainly lend itself to those who (want to) see DE as a combat profession.
I think what is important is not to attempt to consolidate all views into a single unified theory, but instead to separate what we ALL view as something that needs to be done from the list of "wants and needs" of the different camps (crafting, combat, hybrid).
So with all that background out of the way, the question of this thread is "Have our goals been clouded?". Let's see...have they? We all want the bugs fixed (the generic term "bugs" in my case pretty much refer to Gorantoth's stickied thread). That seems pretty clear--this is something we all want. So no cloudiness there. Weall want enhancements to the profession, so no cloudiness there either. Can you qualify the split between adding more combat-heavy stuff versus more general droid functionality requests (slicing, etc.) cloudiness? I certainly would not. They are both good for our profession.
Now once we get past all that and start talking about specifics is when I think things get a little muddled (or is that mottled--like our wrixes...), but to be honest that is expected. There is no way everyone is going to see/want things the same as everyone else. The good news is that regardless of what we write and ask for at this level, SOE is likely to do pretty much whatever they want anyway, and we will get what they give us and have to live with it and go on from there. If they give us a slicing module but it's not the slicing module most people hoped for, how would that differ from the current state of the data module? Answer: none. We'll discuss amongst ourselves how to make that useless slicing module useful and then give that data to SOE and eventually they may do something about it. Or not.
The (hopeful future used for this example) fact that we got a slicing module at all is because enough people thought it was a good idea and (as luck would have it) SOE agreed. At the general level, I would say our goals seem to be uniform and shared enough that SOE should have a good idea of what WE want. From there, it really boils down to what SOE implements due to their own internal development decision making process. All we can do is present them with data on what we want. And at the level they are likely to be listening at, I feel we are pretty much in tune with each other.
Marc_Deltram wrote:
I think what is important is not to attempt to consolidate all views into a single unified theory, but instead to separate what we ALL view as something that needs to be done from the list of "wants and needs" of the different camps (crafting, combat, hybrid).
/agree, was trying to do that with my poll.
So with all that background out of the way, the question of this thread is "Have our goals been clouded?". Let's see...have they? We all want the bugs fixed (the generic term "bugs" in my case pretty much refer to Gorantoth's stickied thread). That seems pretty clear--this is something we all want. So no cloudiness there. Weall want enhancements to the profession, so no cloudiness there either. Can you qualify the split between adding more combat-heavy stuff versus more general droid functionality requests (slicing, etc.) cloudiness? I certainly would not. They are both good for our profession.
/agree
progman63 wrote:
It's obvious that you, Eric and Sodan just can't let the other have the last word.
So let's turn this into your own personal little debate thread.
The rest of us will leave so you three can be alone.
I'm into threesomes. menage a trois baby!
