Droid Engineer Archive

I think there are great ideas in here, but there has to be desgner issue that needs to be looked at.

It was mentioned in the first post and maybe once or twice following it, but I don't think it was specifically said. The developers may ( I don't know their restrictions ) have to follow some kind of history of droids in the Star Wars Universe according to George Lucas' creation of it.

I'll give a little bit of what I think is a very basic history of combat droids and reflectiveness towards the other droids:

As we know from Star Wars Episodes 1 and 2, there were combat droids. They were "legally" used by the Galatic Trade Federation. The rise of the seperatists used the combat droids against the Old Republic. The use of the clones against the droids to surpress the separatists was started and hence started the clone wars ( Possibly Episode 3 ).

From Episodes 4 through 6, we see that there are no combat droids ( minus the Probe Droids that we have in the game ). Since the Empire won, the empire has I believe "enforced" and outlawed combat droids. This affects the other droids as repercussions and racialness by the empire's human purity ideals. And they don't want to fight the droids again. We can see this in various spots: Han is old enough possibly to be alive at the tail of the clone wars and he has said that he hates droids. The empire puts restaining bolts on all droids.

There are some exceptions however ( possibly not handled by George Lucas, meaning that it may not be how he wants it in his universe ) From the pocket books, we have Guri, an HRD. Not everyone knew she was a droid. The 88t8s ( sp? ) considered Vader to be the best or purist form of droids, but they mostly were alone and unknown.

From the RPG of both West End Games and Wizards of the Coast, we see a little bit more openness about the droids. For one, we can see that a PC can play one. We can't in SWG. This leads me to believe that maybe this wasn't to be in this universe. However, we still see the Empire's dislike of droids.

Now that the history is done, we need to see where we can get the droids from, and how they can be used:

R-Units: Astromechs and repair droids.
21Bs: Medical
Utility type droids: Allowable not a problem to deal with.
Probe Droids: In Episode 2, weak, but did shoot and they are probe droids as the definition suggests and hence not a real combat droid.

Combat Droids: None. How do the developers include them for us? In the current timeline where we are, they are illegal. That’s a hard issue to address. We know there are Droideka’s and possibly Battle Droids but they are rogue, or privately owned and I believe that money talks to the Empire.

So the question is, how do the developers get us our combat droids? Faction based? Criminal since they’re illegal? Will we get bounties on us if we create them etc?

Any ideas would be good

Oktober Dae
Scylla

droids dont have to fight just do something. combat droids will be made and im sure some basic combat modules are enevitable. Lets get soem serious abilities to the non-combat side. Support for crafters more then craft stations, support for slicing, help entertaining, help selling, helping with harversters, help with organization of items, droids helping decrease an objects maintenance cost, repairing vehicles-wpns so on....there is so many little tasks that a droid would traditionally help with give these droids some of these abilities. also id like droids to be more autonomous and people(everybody)be allowed to have 2 of them out. (1 combat, 1 non).

well there is my pipe dream

Drashk,

Here is my big question:

If the devs are implementing new combat droid chassis like they say they are, why do we need to defile the current droids to have combat droids? Wont the DZ-70, probot, IG-88, and droideka [speculating here] be enough models and diversity?

If you are giving certs to DEs why not just base on module level (1-6) instead of chassis? A droideka with a level 1 combat module is weak and won't hurt anything.

If it is HAM they are worried about, why not just tie HAM to module strength?

As far as the humanoid v. non-humanoid thing...here is my concern:

The current humanoid droids are 3P0, Repair droid, medical droid, BLL. Put guns on the BLL...it needs a function. As for the others, 2 are "fixer" droids and 1 is a droid for relations between people. It just rubs me the wrong way to have modules on these droids. In the movies, modified droids were not common.Instead, there were specifi droid models that were used for combat because the droid frame was designed for it. The devs are about to turn this on its head and make droids modified for combatthe norm, by giving all non-DEs non-combat droids with combat modules.

One compromise the devs might go for.... I remember from Ep. IV a silver droid on the death star that looked like a 3P0 body, but had a substantially different head (I think it was called a death droid or a destroyer droid). Why not create one more humanoid chassis that is the current 3P0 with a different head (specifially designed and modified for combat). Same basic droid, modified for combat (can't put function modules in it, only attack and armor)

I also wanted to reiterate that my main reason for hating the devs plans is sales. By making all droids do everything, they are making droids a one-does-it-all deal.In the movies, people always had aBUNCH of droids around, because each did something a little different, and all thevarious functionswere needed. I personally feel that all current droids (besides maybe the BLL) should be left alone and limited to function modules only, new droids chassis should be added that ONLY take combat modules, and probots should be nerfed to only combat modules. This preserves the lore of the game, creates diversity, helps sales, and still allows the stupid DE combat class that they are dead set on (though module certs).

Hello. This thread is a summary of our previous discussion revolving around combat capabilities for our current droid chassis. I have done my best to be fair and equally representative for all ideas and aspects to that discussion. Here is my summary.

----- Context -----

Recently we have seen a number of well documented and known posts by the developers regarding adding "combat capability to our current chassis". Without any concrete examples of what exactly this means, the DE community is left to anticipate what this may mean for our current chassis. The following discussion has produced a number of varying opinions within the community. It is my hope that, by discussing the possible variants and results of this change, we can better guide those changes the Developers have in store for us into something that may be more acceptable to the majority of the DE community as a whole. This discussion did not touch on new or unimplemented droid chassis, only the ones that are currently buildable by DE's in SWG.

----- Schools of Thought -----

Four general schools of thought have emerged from that discussion. I have attempted to summarize these categories in fair and neutral terms.

A. The "Total Modular Combat Capability" school of thought. I attempt to define this as follows. These DE's tend to believe that a droid chassis's combat capability should depend almost entirely on what combat modules are loaded within the chassis. Many of these DE's believe that no chassis should be exempt from receiving combat modules and, possibly, that any chassis can be loaded with any level of combat capability. This would yield the widest degree of customization options possible leading to a substantial increase in droid options.

B. The "Tempered Modular Combat Capability" school of thought. Some DE's may temper this above modular combat system by saying that a tiered combat capability may be worthwhile (E.G. a MSE droid can only contain a "low power" combat module while a BLL can contain one or more "high power" combat modules.) This would yield a modest array of choices and customization among our current chassis.

C. The "Tempered Chassis Form/Function Capability" school of thought. These DE's believe that certain chassis should never receive combat capability (Protocol is a good example) but that some could. It's also suggested that, of the chassis that are allowed combat capabilities, that those combat abilities be complimentary to their basic design or form (E.G. a MSE droid would make a logical minelayer or minesweeper, but not a platform for any type of ranged weaponry - an example concept I'll include in a post later on).

D. The "Strict Chassis Form/Function Capability" school of thought. These DE's believe that most current chassis, save a small handful, are innately designed for non-combat, utility, or technical operations only and should never receive combat capabilities. Typically, these DE's raise the point that certain chassis are entirely inappropriate for any type of combat duty whatsoever (the common example is the Protocol droid and the "utility droids" like the Surgical, R4, R2 and R3 droids). Concurrent to these points are the fact that most current chassis aren't mobile or agile enough for any type of combat duty and were never intended to be outfitted for combat. This would yield a very limited array of combat customizations.

----- Opinions Thusfar -----

The community appears to be polarized, with many wanting complete modular combat customization (A) and many wishing to preserve utility droids as non-combat only (D). There are compelling arguments for both sides.

Often, DE's who follow the modular theory (A) voice strong opinions that droids are tools that can be outfitted and engineered in any configuration imaginable, with little or no restrictions. Those DE's who follow the strict form/function theory (D) often voice passionate views that allowing droids like the Protocol chassis to have combat capability seriously contradicts what is seen in Episodes 4 and 5 (right around where SWG takes place... the "immersion" argument). Those who follow the modular theory (A) also point out that said changes might bring parity to the BE's already active in the game and greatly enhance the DE profession. A concern is thus raised by those who caution against this, not wanting to see a repeat of the CH issues and by those who are confronting the question of whether the DE is a pure crafter class.

Based on the opinions expressed by the various posters on that thread (per poster, not per post), those favoring the exclusion of certain chassis from combat capability have an extremely narrow edge over those who want total modular configurability. Certainly no mandate for either side was found.

----- Conclusions? -----

Granted that most of this discussion is based on conjecture, I believe it's important to try to anticipate the changes the Developers may have in store for us before we're given their proposed changes. It's important to discuss this now so that we may be proactive and constructive instead of reactionary and unprepared.

Changes are coming... as to what they consist of, nobody knows for certain. What does appear certain is that we have a somewhat polarized community on what should be done with our current chassis in regards to combat ability.

----- What's the Next Step? -----

It's likely that a compromise will be necessary, with a healthy mix of both perspectives.Personally, Ithink we should put our energy into thinking "out of the box" and trying to iron out a middle ground between the various schools of thought.

I know that's what I'll be doing.

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Drashk wrote:

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Leadhead101 wrote:

I saw a post once about the master de geting an omni droid.

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Ya, I really liked that one too. Wonder what ever happend to the guy that posted about it.Hehe

Actually, if you take a look at the Ideas Link stickied to the top of the page you'll find the link to the Omni Droid Idea.I'd link it here, but I'm about linked out right now. I've spent the last 12 hours catching up on some reading in the Correspondents Forums. straightening up some of the stickies here, posting commentshereand thereand I'm still in the process of pulling info from various places.

Personally, I would like to see stronger combat droids in next months patch and the following patches. I think that the only way to add such droids would be through some kind of level system, similar to the CH system, but spread across all of the professions. Something like; someone with X combat profession and someone with A, B, & C crafting professions would gain the ablity to call the same strength combat droid. I'm not going to comments on DEs and DE ability on this thread, since it is intended to focus specificly on droids themselves. Don't worry, I plan on posting a seperate discussion thread on that later in the week, or day - depends on how lucid I still am after I'm done with the other items I want to finish up.

As to Modules that add benefits to all professions....

Each time that I look at a different feature in concept, I try to think about how it would fit into the game and whatkind of balancing issues might arise. I like having different modules give different professions a boost to their skill; however,some kind of balance needs to be found so that one issue isn't traded for another.

Hope that quinches your request.

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Ooh! Good call, I didnt even think about it that way. This is a really good way to have effective combat droid pets I think. Ifitthis idea is presentedright, I think the devs would go for it.

Thanks for the response, my request is quenched! Accept for beer of course!

I'm Not a driod engineer myself. After reading many posts on this board because of my recent interest in driods I believe that driods should have more potential than what they do now. As far as I can see in game, driods arn't used for as many areas they should. It became obvious something was wrong when a master driod engineer friend of mine didn't have a small army of driods laid out in his front yard.

I personally think that driod engineers should be able to create, DMD, Driods of MASS Destruction. Selling them to the highest bidders w/ skills required to run an army of them, persay the starwars movies. I think when SWG comes up with our space expansion this well be a topic I'll be falling into more and more. As running GIANT ships takes alot of crew or....driods. And TAKING OVER GIANT ships well take a mighty crew....or driods. AND REPAIRING GIANT (and small)ships maytake a crew...or driods. Of course their can be all different types of driods, to start, driods that are stationary and ones that arn't (Driod turrents for example are stationary). AND the list goes on...

Of course most of this is in my imagination and still working out its issues; but driod armies....thats whats in the future for REAL wars. I probly only see it that way because i'm a politic, but you can decide what you think.

Firstly I don't make droids, but I do use them and love them (I have four )

Anyway what I'd like to see and think is reasonable is along the lines of the BE changes.

You add modules to different slots within the droid and these modules dictate the final stats of the droids. There should definately be limits on what modules can go in what.

There should be a lot more variety in the modules and effects of the modules and in the same way that DNA effects everything about a creatures stats the modules should determine all the droid's stats. The difference is you craft the modules instead of sampling them.

I do think that different skins should be able to take different types of modules and that generally droids should be able to take a lot more. A MSE maybe only has one 'casing' slot, no 'armament' slot, no 'utility' slotand one 'processing' slot. A R5 should have maybe 3 'casing' slots, no 'armament' slot, three 'utility' slots and three 'processing' slots.

Those numbers are compelete rubbish but hopefully illustrate what i mean. So a R5 would have more HAM and armourthan a MSE, would be able to take more useful things (item storage/crafting station etc) but still do less damage. A combat droid would be able to have a lot more HAM, a nastier armament and less (if any) utilities. You should be able to armour up R droids though...so maybe have some modules or slots being generic so you can put either armour or a storage module in it say.

It gives flexibility and hopefully is implementable.

I don't think that all droids should be able to do everything, and I think completelycustomisable appearance isn't realistic. But several new skins and (maybe) permanent colouring options at creation (changable with kits later) would give enough variety....

Anyway i won't go into different types of combat droids (but i think you should be able to coose between a great tank (solid metal basically), strong offensive droid (but vulnerable) or a balanced combat droid. Giving droids special attacks like creatures can be given would be nice. Dizzy/Stun strikes at least if not posture changes...)

Ooops I was meant to be finishing...

But I hope that droids will be customisable in use so that i can do more than feel Star Warsy, craft spice schematics by my factory if I need to and store my slicing equipment so it doesn't decay.

We'll see...I'm waiting as eagerly as you guys. Even though i have a Master CH I want droids to be the option of choice for combat pets, at least for non-CHs.

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Virtanis wrote:

Hello. This thread is a summary of our previous discussion revolving around combat capabilities for our current droid chassis. I have done my best to be fair and equally representative for all ideas and aspects to that discussion. Here is my summary.

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Virtanis,

This is AWESOME.

You very succintly summarized the different opinions that must be weighed on this all-important issue.


I believe, as do you, that a compromise between school "A" and school "D" is possible and, in fact, needed.

The devil is always in the details, of course.

Good job!!

/applaud


/bow

Respectfully,

About exploding MSE droids:

While I think this is a rather bad idea -- and could definitely cause some griefing -- it would be a wonderful idea if a limited-run schematic for exploding MSE droids would be a rare loot item. Reasons:

1. Continuity would be maintained: while the official SW lore prevents standard MSEs from exploding, there's nothing against random NPCs out there modifying MSEs to blow up (and yielding those schematics when killed)
2. It would prevent griefing: if the schematics are rare, there won't be an opportunity to blow up every lair with these bombs
3. It would make combat fun: rare weapons make for unexpected battles, and those are much more fun than auto-blaster fire situations.
4. It would make crafting more fun: as a DE, it'd be really fun to create something with a rare schematic to break the monotony of probots and R2s that make up the vast majority of my orders

Bumping this one for the masses. I'm sorry if I haven't replied to any comments directed at me in this thread, but I'm trying to get everyone elses input on the subject.I would love to see more people actively involved, so that I can give the DEVs food for thought.

The locking of the SWG Discussion forum was brought about so that people would talk about issues that involve them in a place that is better suited for such a purpose. It was also brought about so that the Correspondents would have an easier time to find information that can help them best represent their community.I started this thread before the fancy title and blue glowie was added to my name, in hopes of giving the community a little shove in the right direction.

Having spent a little time on the Correspondents forum, I am now well aware that the DEVs do listen to us just by looking at some of the posts. Just because a DEV doesn't post here, or any other forum, does not mean that they aren't reading what it is that we write. The Correspondents constantly post links to threads for the DEV team to take a look at. And just so that everyone knows, YES Droid Engineers have a DEV.

So, lets get those creative juices flowing people and let the words and ideas roll forth.

Based on our previous discussions on granting our current droid chassis "combat capabilities", a number of dominant schools of thought have emerged. Please see the below link to refer to my findings as it provides context for this post.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=49089&highlight=summary#M49089

Basically, I think it would help the DE community if we could forge some sort of middle ground between the persons who believe our current chassis should receive a 'Total Modular Combat Capability' and those who want a 'Strict Chassis Form/Function Capability.' This post attempts to provide some ideas on how a middle ground can be achieved.

In essence, it revolves around granting our current droids two types of combat related modules. The first group I call "Combat Utility Modules" (CUtM) and the second group I call "Direct Combat Modules" (DCM). On a chassis by chassis basis, some droids can accept specific types and numbers of CUtM's and DCM's based heavily on their form apparent and function. These variations listed below would allow droids to have a wide variety of modules installed in them: both with a direct (and "reasonable") bearing in combat. With this approach, those DE's who wish for a wide variety of combat related applications for their droids and those DE's who wish for a restricted "logical" approach to droid combat capabilities may find an agreeable middle ground. As a side benefit, some of the modules listed below add a significant factor to droid involvement in the GCW, which is sorely missing in our profession.

As always, this post is subject to discussion, digestion, and difference. All opinions are welcome and all feedback will add to the sum of the discussion.

LIST OF DIRECT COMBAT MODULES (DCM):

Light / Medium / Heavy Blaster Modules

(Self explanitory... the equivalent of low power Pistols to middle power Carbines).

Light / Medium / Heavy Rifle Modules

(Self explanatory... the equivalent of middle power Carbines through high power Rifles).

Stun Blaster Module:

A specific type of weapon which has a moderate chance of applying a stun effect on a humanoid or other biological creature, may only be fired once every 20 rounds of combat).

Ion Rifle Module:

A specific type of weapon which has a moderate chance of deactivating vehicles and droids for a few minutes, may only be fired once every 20 rounds of combat).

Sonic Rifle Module:

A specific type of weapon which has a moderate chance of applying a dizzy effect on a humanoid or other biological creature, may only be fired once every 20 rounds of combat).

Flash Rifle Module:

A specific type of weapon which has a moderate chance of applying a blinded effect on a humanoid or other biological creature, may only be fired once every 20 rounds of combat).

LIST OF COMBAT UTILITY MODULES (CUtM)

Base Terminal Interface Module:

A droid with this module installed will be able to add another step to the destruct sequence for factional bases. To do so, you need to be overt for your faction and have target the base control terminal. You instruct your droid to "Install A Failsafe Code" which then adds another, final step to the base shutdown sequence. For an enemy, the only way to remove this lock is by having his own controlled droid loaded with a similar module. That player must be overt, he must target the control terminal and instruct his droid to "Break The Failsafe Code". Once the droid does this, that last, final step to the destruct sequence is removed and the countdown begins like normal. (Movie Inspiration: Many instances of R2D2 interfacing with Imperial computer systems in the movies).

Minesweeping Module:

If an enemy controlled minefield is identified, you can send droids in equipped with Minesweeping modules to remove and neutralize the enemy minefield. To do this, you must be overt and have your droid at the ready. Target the enemy minefield indicator and instruct your droid to sweep the field. This will take a number of minutes depending on how extensive the minefield is. For each mine removed, there is a very small chance the the droid accidentally sets off a mine and is immediately incapped. If successful, the minefield will be completely neutralized and removed from the ground area. (Movie Inspiration: Floating droids and low lying ground roving droids make an excellent platform for removing mines, though there isn't much to this subject in the movies).

Smokescreen Generator Module:

A droid with this module installed will be able to generate a large, opaque cloud of gas which obstructs view in a sizable area. Anyone who is grouped with and within 10 meters of the droid receive a +10 Ranged Defense bonus for 2 minutes in addition to a -10 Ranged Accuracy penalty. In addition, there is a large graphical cloud which surrounds the droid, making opposing player's sight through the cloud difficult. (Movie Inspiration: R2D2 on Cloud City unleashes a large obscuring cloud from a fire extinguisher to cloak the escape of his friends).

Mobile Shield Generator Module:

This module requires a large amount of power, so it can only fit in the Power droid chassis. When activated, this droid's shield generator extends to each player within the group out to a range of 10 meters. While the shield is active, each grouped person within that radius gains a +30 Ranged Defense bonus. Due to electrical interference, only one shield generator can be active in a group at any time. (Movie Inspiration: The Gungan shield generators seen in Episode 1, but on a much, much smaller scale).

Covert Faction Scanner Module:

Behaves exactly as a covert faction scanner. This droid is interfaced directly to Alliance / Imperial databanks and has access to all known lists of enemies or enemy agents. In order to use, the droid's controller must be overt and the droid must be stationary. Instructing his droid to "scan the area for known enemies", the droid makes a single, low intensity sweep of the area locating all known enemies. These players earn a temporary enemy flag which lasts only a few minutes. Scanning by the droid can only be done once every 10 minutes and cannot be done in cities. (Movie Inspiration: R2D2 has been known to alert people when enemies are approaching, so this is a logical extension of this ability).

Scanner Jamming Module:

This module interferes with the scans emitted by a droid equipped with a covert faction scanner module. In order to use, the droid's controller must be covert and the droid must be stationary. Instructing his droid to "jam enemy scanning", the droid does so, foiling any attempt at the enemy to assign TEF's on fellow covert members of his faction. Due to the relatively weak strength of this jamming signal, normal base factional scanners are unaffected by this jamming signal, and will easily detect both the droid and his master. (Movie Inspiration: None really, but it's necessary as a balance to the droid faction scanning module).

EMT Module:

This module allows a grouped droid to medically aide all members within a group. Specifically, the presence of this droid and it's various healing techniques helps to speed the passing of ill effects on group members (poison, stun, dizzy, etc). A droid loaded with this module reduces the duration time of these effects by 20%. (Movie Inspiration: None really, but it might cause a combat group to seek out a droid that's equipped with this module and have it grouped in combat also).

LIST OF CURRENT CHASSIS WHICH MAY BE LOADED WITH SPECIFIC MODULES (includes basic and advanced frames):

- Binary Load Lifter (Lt., Med. & Hvy. Blasters; Lt., Med. & Hvy. Rifles; Stun Blaster; Ion Rifle; Sonic Rifle; Flash Rifle)

- DZ70 (Lt. Blaster; Lt. Rifle; Stun Blaster; Minesweeping)

- LE Repair (Lt. & Med. Blasters; Lt. Rifles; Stun Blaster; Ion Rifle; Sonic Rifle; Flash Rifle; Covert Faction Scanning; Scanner Jamming; Base Terminal Interface)

- MSE "Mouse" (Minesweeping)

- Power (Lt. & Med. Blasters; Ion Rifle; Shield Generator)

- Probot (Lt., Med. & Hvy. Blasters; Lt. & Med. Rifles; Stun Blaster; Ion Rifle; Sonic Rifle; Flash Rifle, Minesweeping)

- Protocol (Lt. Blaster; Stun Blaster; Covert Faction Scanning; Scanner Jamming; Base Terminal Interface)

- R2 (Lt. Blaster, Stun Blaster; Smokescreen Generator, Covert Faction Scanning; Scanner Jamming; Base Terminal Interface)

- R3 (Lt. Blaster, Stun Blaster; Ion Rifle, Flash Rifle; Smokescreen Generator, Covert Faction Scanning; Scanner Jamming; Base Terminal Interface, EMT)

- R4 (Lt. Blaster, Smokescreen Generator)

- R5 (Lt. Blaster; Smokescreen Generator)

- Surgical (Lt. Blaster; Stun Blaster; Covert Faction Scanning; Scanner Jamming; Base Terminal Interface, EMT)

- WED Treadwell (Lt. Blaster; Minesweeping)

ADDENDUM TO MY ABOVE POST:

The list of possible modules able to be loaded in the various frames are just a list. If a droid has only 2 spots for "combat related modules" then it could only contain two from that list, not the whole list.

Dra, respecfully, isnt this all just redoing everything that has been done. There have been focus upon focus, discussion upon discussion, i would say we are more at the point of soe telling us ok we took what you said and here is what we came up with. I think you are an awsome choice to replace sin, frankly your test center work is was really appriciated. But seriously how many times are we gonna do the same exact thing.

What i want is to here that they have heard the 120984785748758937589375845903 posts by the community so far and are actually doing something with them.

I can appriciate wanting to start fresh but seriously this horse is dead glue gone.

I suggest we take what is given back now from them and go from there.

Respectfully

Sinsins, Shahara

Kauri, Master Droid Doofus for keeping it so long