Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droid Price / Droid Merchant Guide
Ok really trying to get this but I fail.
Your arguement has validity as it assumes you buy everything from other people, I assume you have given up gettng resources cheaply and spend all of your time selling things and have no other income. You seem to put a very large mark-up on your products and you say you are selling items. However, what will happen when you get competition who undercuts you by a factor 3.
The problem with your thesis I think:
1. In reality nobody has the capacity to mine all the raw materials and produce the final product. In this game you can. As a result you could either sell the resources for 3c/unit or use the resources and produce a droid. Even if you charged 3.1c/unit for the droid you are making a profit on your running costs. A profit is still a profit.
2. People have to grind alot of droids to level. Unless you only use practicve mode (resulting in no money) you might as well make a droid and dump the droid cheaply onto the market (resulting in some money).
3. People have different risk profiles. One person makes 10K a nightwhilstsomeone else doesnt mind30K coming in every third night. Both are making a profit on the cost of their raw materials.
4. Pure crafters have little need for using the bazaar. I can make everything I need, what I can't I can run missions to pay for. So my outgoings apart from harvesters (and training) are minimal. So any money I make results in my bank balance going up.
I think your ideas would make sense if the game was configured in such a way that you couldn't be a crafter and a miner. Also it would make sense if crafting didn't require leveling, i.e. no product dumping. Also what you say would make more sense if you couldn't combine modules to have the same effect as high level modules.
Sorry but I am still selling my adv probots (plus modules)for 10K and adv R2s (plus modules) for 15K, I am still making money over my costs.
Spanners Ranaki
Master DE
Eclipse
I guess I could be considered an abnormal DE as I have made well over 5 million in droid sales in the last few months. And certainly didn't do it at 3k per probot.
Since there are only but a few useful configurations, I sell a bunch of standard packages, that I labelwith their ownbrand names. This eases my logical challeges as I can just stock my vendor. And I only have to make a couple droid frames and modules. Generally my R4 crafting station + medical or storage runs 24k, Adv Medical probots 42k and Adv R2 (crafting, med and storage) runs 45k
Can people under cut me? Sure. But my time is more valuable than that. And I keep my vendor well stocked, with a good selection. People will pay for convience.
The biggest thing to remember is that droids are a limited, non-sustainable market. Nobody needs a second medical crafting station droid, so unlike wpnsmiths, cooks, and armorsmiths,you generally sell one per customer. (Artictects have the same problem) If you don't make a good profit on a sale, you are only hurting yourself in the long run. The best thing that Tarquinas has had going for it is the Droid Engineer Association, which has managed to keep price high enough that DE's can sell to a limited market, and stay profitable.
And while Vamp's logic regarding resources isn't 100% accurate, (I do mine all my own stuff). You as a customer have to pay for my inventory investment. Keep in mind Droids are probably (with exception of some artictect products) the most complicated items to put together. A R2 unit has around 20+ parts. I have several thousand droid parts that I pre-built, and hopefully SOE won't change the rules on droids and make them worthless.
Don't trade short term gains for long term market destruction. Form a union, keep prices stable. Remember there will always be another biz natch to kill, but thecustomer won't always be there.
3. People have different risk profiles. One person makes 10K a nightwhilstsomeone else doesnt mind30K coming in every third night. Both are making a profit on the cost of their raw materials.
Uhm... the guy that sold 1 droid for 30k just made a ton more per resources than the guy selling at 10k...
Avair wrote:
I guess I could be considered an abnormal DE as I have made well over 5 million in droid sales in the last few months. And certainly didn't do it at 3k per probot.
Since there are only but a few useful configurations, I sell a bunch of standard packages, that I labelwith their ownbrand names. This eases my logical challeges as I can just stock my vendor. And I only have to make a couple droid frames and modules. Generally my R4 crafting station + medical or storage runs 24k, Adv Medical probots 42k and Adv R2 (crafting, med and storage) runs 45k
Can people under cut me? Sure. But my time is more valuable than that. And I keep my vendor well stocked, with a good selection. People will pay for convience.
The biggest thing to remember is that droids are a limited, non-sustainable market. Nobody needs a second medical crafting station droid, so unlike wpnsmiths, cooks, and armorsmiths,you generally sell one per customer. (Artictects have the same problem) If you don't make a good profit on a sale, you are only hurting yourself in the long run. The best thing that Tarquinas has had going for it is the Droid Engineer Association, which has managed to keep price high enough that DE's can sell to a limited market, and stay profitable.
And while Vamp's logic regarding resources isn't 100% accurate, (I do mine all my own stuff). You as a customer have to pay for my inventory investment. Keep in mind Droids are probably (with exception of some artictect products) the most complicated items to put together. A R2 unit has around 20+ parts. I have several thousand droid parts that I pre-built, and hopefully SOE won't change the rules on droids and make them worthless.
Don't trade short term gains for long term market destruction. Form a union, keep prices stable. Remember there will always be another biz natch to kill, but thecustomer won't always be there.
Hello Avair, I am on the Tarquinas Server and how can I join the Droid Engineer Association?
I got my master today and I wanna keep our perfession strong....
Shredz
4. Pure crafters have little need for using the bazaar. I can make everything I need, what I can't I can run missions to pay for. So my outgoings apart from harvesters (and training) are minimal. So any money I make results in my bank balance going up.
good feedback btw, the fact that you are considering it neccessary to run missions to stay afloat, shows that 2 things, 1 that you either dont have the business to make enough money as a DE OR
jeez stupid posting system.....
or 2 that you are underpricing.
lets face it if you have the demand then your sales should exceed your costs. i realize that some out there are not greedy, so they dont see why charging 30k for a adv probot is necessary. i myself only charge 18k. but not to digress to far, the income from sales should be covering the harvesters and merchanting cost enough for you to generate some positive cash flow, what rate is determined by how much you mark up, Vamp's guide shows a cash flow that (assuming business is regular) should pay way over 50k a day in profit or more. i myself set my prices to make about 20k a day. and i have exceeded that goal, so i could if i want drop my prices and still make 20k a day in sales (profit!). but if you want to sell such that you are breaking even, i must ask point blank, why even if you love crafting arent you loving your own time? i love to make droids and like even better that i get paid in game too. but as the say different strokes for different folks 
Hehe, this is going in circles. You disagreed with my example and then used an identical example to show how I'm wrong. The cost of making a CD is 2p the same way the cost of making a Probot is 1500cr. If you can reduce your costs by harvesting your own materials you're running a more efficient "business" and I and most people I know harvest all our own materials.
The artisans that usually don't are those that run large operations with shops on multiple planets, etc. If they can balance out their higherprices by offering a larger stock in convenient locations then that's cool, I'm glad it works for some people. It's too much hassle for me. =)
I agree with most your other points to be honest, I just found your initial base cost estimate of a Probot at 35K fundamentally flawed and your suggestion that most DEs don't harvest their own resources questionable. =)
If I buy all my resources at 3cr per and assume I'm going to crit fail every other Probot (not a likely scenario thankfully) my base cost is around 9K for one with food/chem craft and some armor. If I sell that for 20K I've made more than enough profit to cover my expenses. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not playing this game to make a virtual fortune. As regards another poster, what the hell good is 5 millioncredits? Honestly?
I have a lot of friends and PA members who are just casual players and for whom 50K credits is more money than they've ever seen. One of them asked me about a medical droid the other day because theirs was only L4 and they couldn't afford the 30K an established DE wanted for a bare bones L6 one.
Maybe it's just me, but it rubs me the wrong way to see established artisans (not just DEs) with millions and millions in the bank still charging huge prices. Money is easy for the powergamers to get sure, but not for the average player. I think high initial prices were somewhat warranted by the cost necessary to acquire harvesters and a house. But unlike the real world, those things don't wear out and prices come down. =)
Now I'm not gonna sell droids for 3K but I think if they were more reasonably priced in general we'd see more people using them and they wouldn't be perceived as a boutique item. Nobody uses droids for item storage because no one wants to pay 30K for 10 inventory slots.
Granted they're of limited use now and don't wear out - but when they do get fixed the profession is going to be hurt by the precedent that's been set of overpriced droids you only ever buy one of.
And in terms of real world examples, many people mention trade associations. This is called price fixing and collusion and in the real world this is illegal and the government (at least in the US) would break it up and fine you. But we don't have a Glacactic Trade Comission here... =)
Junko, I do agree that for some there is no point hitting 5 million.. or even attempting it, but it really all depends on the player and his/her role in the local community.
For me, I have a LOT of out-goings that keep my wallet perminantly drained. I pay out maintenance on a large house and factory, which isn't that much atmitedly, but it still drains it. I also pay for a ton of venders all over the place ... thats probably one of my main money drainers. I also hand out a LOT of credits to fellow members in my PA, as well as helping to support the PA Hall etc etc. Another thing that really needs money is that I buy faction-related items such as stormtrooper armour for fellow PA members.
From what I've read, some servers have some real money issues. On starsider, I haven't seen this. Most items are between 10-60k ... factories cost (on average) 40. Small houses cost (on average) 10k. High-end weapons like T21's cost over 26k ... my point is, I am used to this type of market. Money isn't hard to come by on Starsider, so the majority of its population accept these prices and are happy with them. Therefore, for me, to see an AdvancedProbot being sold for 15k just seems silly.
"Maybe it's just me, but it rubs me the wrong way to see established artisans (not just DEs) with millions and millions in the bank still charging huge prices. Money is easy for the powergamers to get sure, but not for the average player. I think high initial prices were somewhat warranted by the cost necessary to acquire harvesters and a house. But unlike the real world, those things don't wear out and prices come down. =)"
I disagree 100%. A market that starts off over-priced with stupid high-priced items has a future ... Why? Because high-priced items can be lowered in price. A market with low price items has NO future ... Why? Because you generaly can't RAISE prices on items without losing your customers.
I don't buy from the bazaar BTW, I go to a bulk vendor near my house. I only buy 10k units ofresources I need... so by your scheme I should charge... lets see...
30k for 10k units x 10 different types of resources...
hmmm, somehow I do not think I would have any customers left if I did that. There's a point at which your scheme doesn't work anymore. if you had made it 500 units from the bazaar at 3 per unit (1500cr) I don't think this discussion would still be going, but it might.
BTW, I just raised my prices due to the fact I sold out of my entire stock n a week. I had multiple droids priced at 30k too (R2's with 10 item, various crafting stations, 100 MCR, and repair). I left for the weekend and came back to two of my vendors that were both have sold out. by today the rest of one vendor was sold out. I also had personality variations of all my surgical droids, 1 of each personality... all gone. so I raised all prices by 5k. I don't care how much per resource that ends up being. it's supply & demand... I noticed I sold out too fast so I raise prices. If they sit there for about a week I'll probably reduce the price a little, but not below what I previously sold them at.
I'm also of the mind that no one cares if it's a level 5 or level 6 mod or even 2 level 4's etc... all they care about is what that translates too. 100 MCR is more usful to a medic then saying it has a level 5 med mod for example. but that's beside the point.
I cant believe i read all this but anyway. Vampire Or whoever started this thread. You are **edit** near right on par with how much i see my droids for. I have no problem selling them. It appears the people on tempest arent as lazy as people on other servers. And the Credits flow like the salmon of capastrano.
45k for a bot that can tank for you is not alot by anymeans. IF you think it is, then you should drop DE and become a weaponsmith or something, b.c your in the wrong trade pal.
BUt of course there are certain people in every server that will try to undercut ya, just to make a few bucks themselves. I have seen these people, And they have all quit DE within a week. THe problem most of you are facing is that you are letting the people determine your price, But it should be the DE's that determine the price. They cant afford it, tell em to bad, make it themselves...Guarentee you they will be back within the hour with the money you need.
That being said here are my prices...This is for any module...I dont bend, unless REALLY hard up for credits, which is a rare occasion.
Probots 35-45k
Runits 20-45k
surgical and le droids - 25-30k
BLL - when it works...that thing is like 60-70k
protocol- when its worth something 45k
seekers/arakyd -10/15k
And i have no problem selling these at all. Youll notice i left out the mse, treadwell, and power droid. These things are chump change and should be left to novice people. IN 2 days i was able tomake 300k . But then again i also run myself a tight ship and got a cartel working for me
> Maybe it's just me, but it rubs me the wrong way to see established artisans (not just DEs) with millions and millions in the bank still charging huge prices.
Hmm... I see the light now, I will use my cash reserves to drive price down so low that nobody will ever be able to sell another droid on Tarqunias. All droids are now 3k. I will sell Medium/40% Armor Adv Probots on the bazaar. Would you prefer that?
> As regards another poster, what the hell good is 5 millioncredits? Honestly?
I stated that was an estimate of the total sales i've taken in to date, not profit or cash reserves. Over 50% of sales gets rolled back over into inventory, expanding the business, upgrading harvesters, experimenting with other crafting professions, assisting the guild, etc.
>Trade associations. This is called price fixing and collusion and in the real world this is illegal and the government (at least in the US) would break it up and fine you.
Its not the real world, its game.Nobody in SWG is going starve,or sleep on the streetsif they can't sell their products. In SWG, players can give away hundreds of droids for free, just because they want to craft. In this game, I'm bound artificially by what products I can make, no real innoviation is possible. So prices could easily race to the bottom, especially if DE's hurt themselves by giving their products away. So it's an irrelavant comparison to make.
Shredzdroid - Talk to Slater or Need, or send me an in game email about joining the DEA.
I guess the issue as I see it is that supply and demand should regulate prices, but often it doesn't with droids. You should figure out your cost of production, factor in maintenance on vendor(s), house(s) and harvesters and then add in as much profit as you feel youneed or can get paying attention to the current market on your server. You don't want to charge more than everyone else or no one will buy from you - and you don't want to charge a lot less than everyone else or you'll start a price war, piss off your fellow DEsand/or get more business than you can keep up with. Trust me, I'm not advocating 3000cr droids on the bazaar and don't do that. =)
The problem with this model is, let's face it, there's not a huge demand for droids (ourbiggest market is a fairly small percentage of the server - predominantly crafters and medics) and no repeat business (droids don't wear out). As a result people seem to think that well, since I'm only going to sell a limited number of droids I'll charge an arm and a leg for them. Or they band together with other DEs and fix prices so that no one has a choice but to buy a droid at an inflated price.
This works in the short term, but long term I think it hurts the profession. People aresometimes negatively disposed towards DEs as "price gougers" and, as I said before, droids are perceived as high end "boutique" items. I want droids to be a commodity - this is Star Wars and droids should be everywhere. =)
Let's be honest, once you've covered the initial cost of harvesters, factories and got your resource harvesting and/or purchasing coordinated, droids are not that expensive or difficult to make. Selling an overpriced droid to someone who thinks they're never going to have to buy another droid ever is bad for the profession in the long run.
When droids get "fixed" and become a lot more useful to everyone (eventually it will happen, I hope, hehe) it's going to be difficult to change people's perception of them. If people are used to droids as a reasonably priced commodity they'll be more willing to buy a new droid because they want a new feature or decide they want a new color or want a different personality chip. Or even if they have no use for a droid they'll buy one to follow them around in town because this is Star Wars and they want a droid. =)
Junko you are VERY wrong.
Look at computers and cars. Quite possibly the two most overpriced items that almost everyone has throughout the world.
They both started off being sold at rediculously high prices because the original owners thought "No one but a business is going to want these, so lets just silly high prices to make sure we DO make a profit"
Suddenly everyone wants one because they are cool, and they don't care about the high prices .. suddenly the car/computer market are able to fluctuate their prices but keep them exceptionaly high and still make billions everyday.
Hell, many cars are more expensive than a house.
The same goes to droids.
The fact that they are not sort after items right now, but have the full potential to be THE most sort after item in the game, means an intelligent Droid Engineer would keep his prices high knowing that at some point everyone is going to want one, and wont care about the price.
The fact is, any buyer thinks someone thats selling something for a higher price than THEY think it should be sold for is going to label that seller as a thief and a conn artist ... but guess what? They'll still pay the price for it.
As I've said a million times... High prices WILL NEVER hurt the profession. This is because of one simple factor: You can always low prices. Low prices WILL ALWAYS hurt the profession because once you've set a trend of selling droids for 10k, you will be unable to sell them for a higher price.
Also remember the "sales" factor. In clothes shops they raise their prices in november to try and make more money during christmas.. in January, they drop the price back to what they originaly were during the summer and name it the "january sales" ... people see the "Reduce by 10 credits!" label and think they are getting a bargin... when in fact they are just paying the actual NORMAL price for the item. The point is... when you drop prices and make a fuss about doing so, people think they are getting a better deal.