Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: DE's I need two things from you please
I think the only proper way to do an UBER droid is to make it NON-FACTORY. Ensure that YES it is very difficult to make. but you CANNOT make 1000 of them. You cannot even make 2 exactly alike. The lightsabre of the Droid Engineer. DE's HAVE to HANDCRAFT that droid AND all the components.
Fearghal the B.F.W.
The Fattest Wookiee in all of Bria
First off, I am NOT a DE. I am an avid user of droids though and want to see droids play a more active role than pets in this game.
1.) Sintrosi's post was very well done, articulated her feelings (and by extension, DE's as a whole), and should be readto get a feeling of the current state of mind of most DE's.
2.)I agree with an earlier poster that said the SOE plan was good, but contained a lot of 'fat'.
I decided to go through TH's last post and just answer his questions...Here we go.
Thunderheart wrote:
Im stilltrying to understand what makes you tick and I had some questions, so here goes...
There needs to be more usefull things for droids to do for certain professions.
What things and which professions?
Pretty much every profession except CH. Droids should be the 2nd most populous lifeformseen next to humanoids. Pets should be a distant 3rd.
What items seem like the most important and which professions have interdependencies that are a lot of fun?
I don't know about fun interdependencies, but let me comment here about the earlier poster that said "We rely too much on Master Artisan crafted components". Sorry, but that's the original design. Every other elite crafter has to have parts from a Master Artisan (weaponsmiths need Electronics modules, same for architects). That's what *being* a Master Artisan is all about. Providing elite goods to other crafters.
And give us Droideka
I dont know what I can do, but there is a lot of talk about Combat Droids. There are a lot of dependencies here so its not an easy, cut and dry proposition...
Let's not all get hung up on yet another single type of combat droid. There are a TON of combat droids listed in the Star Wars encyclopedias. Droidekas are just what everyone isremembering right now because of the current movies and the ones on Lok. We just need *more* combat droids. Which ones don't really matter...
The medical droids had better be certed to Master Medic/Novice Doc/Novice CM then, because with this idea a player can simply replace the Player Medic with a Droid
Thats definately a concern. It changes the focus of both "when" and "where" players go to get healed and thats a key activity.
I have to agree with this though I as a combat person would *really* like to see someone in a party have a droid that would automatically stimpack a group member who gets incap'd but it really takes away from the role of the doc/medic in a combat group. In reality, the way med droids work now is pretty good with a Level 6 module. Maybe less mind costs would be good. But give a +10 or so boost to doctor skills with it out.
When it says only DE will be able to use these combat modules do you mean that only DE will be able to asemble these modules or that only DE will be able to use combat droids of any form?
Which would you prefer and why?
I do *not*like the idea of Droid Engineers having some kind of droid use advantage. It doesn't follow in line with all the other elite crafters at the moment. Weaponsmiths don't get certified to use all weapons. Architects don't gain maintenance advantages using installations. Droid Engineers need to provide droids for others and that's it. Everyone else gets to use their droids. That's the way Star Wars is supposed to be. I like the "1 Pet Only" rule as it keeps CH's from getting one of their animal pets AND a combat droid thereby messing up the entire balance issue (since I can't stimpack my probot).
One small step for droid functionality, one giant leap for DE- Dev relations.
Droid functionality or Droid Engineer Functionality? Which is more entertaining? How do you see each side?
I think if you make droids more useful, the DE gains just by association. BUT, I am not a DE as I said somy opinion on this is suspect.
Only a DE will be able to craft them and insert them in droids is my guess.
Is that the way you want it?
That's a very good question, TH. Actually, I wouldn't mind having the option of changing out the weapon equipped on my droid. Sometimes I may want my probot to tank for me so I give it the 'melee attachment'. Sometimes though I may be in a larger group and just want some extra firepower so I put in the "rifle attachment" for some long-range punch. This deserves some focused discussion on another thread really for the DE's.
help me out on this one. does this mean that only droid engineers will be able to command/use droids that have these modules isntalled, or will everyone
Only DE's would make them. Any Droid owner would gain the benefits of their Droids Abilities...
Exactly as it should be.
why do you talk about 1 active pet per player as the maximum in the CH changes thread and here I read that you plan to have more than one active droid. Arent you guys talking with each other?
I dont know, but Ill find out
I believe the DE should gain a +1 droid out (non-combatONLY) at a fairly low level. That way they can use a repair droid and be able to sell a service as well as a product.
There's always more of course, and while these changes sound good, they didn't make me go "YAY!" like I was hoping they would.
(i saw all the stuff from your post)
What WOULD make you go "yay"?
Peace on earth, good will towards men... that or a new Lamborghini...
Finally i can watch those stupid annoying mouse droids get what they deserve.
LOL
Now, TH-san, you understand....Mouse droid go BOOM!....Players go YAY!...
Will droid power rates be looked at?
I dont know, how does it work and what's the problem?
I believe this is related to the problem of not *knowing* how much power our probots have left. There's no indicator at all about when a droid will need a battery until you issue a command (usually 'attack') and your wonderful protector responds with *Low Power*. Wow, is that a sinking feeling...
My only gripe is that we are so closely dependent on items from the Master Artisan box and there is no added benefit.
Thats a good point. I'll bring it up.
As I said before, this is by design. So is every other Elite Crafter. Weaponsmiths need GP Modules, Architects need modules, I'm sure Armorsmiths do too. That is the *point* of being a Master Artisan (well, that and the Neimodian Birdcage. TH PLEASE FIND OUT WHAT THAT BIRDCAGE IS SUPPOSED TO DO! IT'S DRIVING US NUTS!)
This sounds good too, I like these things a lot. Having said that: I agree with some of the doctors that this shouldn't be allowed to overrun their profession.
What are your thoughts on counter-balancing that?
3 minute timer on the stims from a droid? Besides I don't want to be killed because my droid kept stimming me up from incap then I got incapped immediately again...
All in all, I want more droid usefulness. More combat droids. I really always wanted to put lasers and heavy armor on a Binary Load Lifter and send it to tank an ATST...It would lose of course but not before it did some damage...
More droids in general. More power droids. More protocol droids (maybe doing a cheap very of AdBarking I from the Merchant tree if we can find a way to do it without hurting Merchants).
My opinion is if droids are made useful, then DE's will feel useful again.
Good luck TH. Good luck DE's.
I'm not a DE. I don't think I've ever actually talked to a DE in-game. But I think droids have the potential for being *very* cool. I am currently working my way up Rifleman and CH trees, so these comments come from that point-of-view (as well as from a Star Wars fan).
Here are a few ideas I have about droids and DE's:
- Combat Droids: Bring 'em on. Pets have flooded the game to the point where people call it "pet wars". While I think CH is fun, it doesn't exactly reek of Star Wars. Droids do. DEs need to be able to make effective droids that can tank for the combat classes. I'd love to see a nice mixture of pets and droids when I hop off the shuttle in Corellia. Right now, it looks like a zoo.
- Tracker Droids: A droid for Rangers that would let them use AreaTrack better. Kind of a mechanical bloodhound. It might even have limited combat abilities (like a real bloodhound would), but would be no replacement for a *real* combat droid.
- Portable Turrret Droids: Ideal for any Scout on-the-go. The Turret Droid can only be used near a camp or residence. This type of droid is virtually useless when moving, but once it locks downand its weapons come out, the droid becomes a powerful turret. Unlike faction turrets, the Turret Droid is designed to defend a camp from aggressive mobs of any kind.
- Salesman Droid: More than just a mere vendor, a Sales Droid could be programmed to patrol a small area and contains a number of items for sale. Further more, this protocol-like droid can respond to frequently asked questions about the location of the owner's shop, etc. and can be configured to send in-game mail. A version of this droid might also be a PA Recruiter or do any other type of advertising.
- Pet Swap Droid: Designed to allow any character to swap-out a pet without the need for a camp. Bring out the droid and then transfer a pet into it (which does not count against +activepets). When not in combat, the owner can "trade" pets with the droid. If the droid is stored with a pet inside, both it and the pet return to the owner's datapad normally.
- Entertainment Droid: By adding special effects like holograms, light shows, music, etc., Dancers and Musicians can provide more entertaining performances. A version of this droid might even allow explorers to play games with the droid out in the wilderness while resting up in camp. Chess anyone?
- Decoy Droid: A disposable droid used in combat. While not exactly a tank, the Decoy Droid is designed to draw attacks on itself, allowing the owner to escape from combat that's gone sour. This is a last-ditch effort to retreat.
- Science Droid: When used by a Scout in combination with /examine, the Science Droid provides more detailed information about a creature. This droid might also be able to enhance the Scout's natural ability to Mask Scent or the Ranger's Camoflage.
- Cloaker Droid: Prevents any covert faction member from being detected by a faction detection device sometimes seen near Rebel and Imperial bases. Alternately, this droid might work like a modern-day radar detector; it could alert the owner that he was being scanned.
- Bomb Disposal Droid: Designed to provide safe passage through enemy mine fields, this droid is used by a faction member to either disarm or destroy mine fields near Rebel or Imperial bases. Like the Cloaker Droid, this droid is not limited to one faction or the other, but can be used by both.
These are just a few ideas I've had about droids I'd like to see in the game. More versatile than Creature Handlers, I think the DE profession has the potential to be very, very cool.
:: | Dewgatt | :: Wookie - Rifleman - Creature Handler Give some love to the walking rug.
a) Combat droids for non-DE's is a must, for so many reasons I can't even explain (some of which are the social ramifications), the short version is that because of the flawed SWG combat model it is more important to have a combat droid that has high HAM's (3k+), good resistances to kinetic & energy, and most importantly kinetic melee attacks. That's right melee attacks, a buzzsaw or chopping blade or the like, because of the fact that NPCs/Creatures scale up both damage production & HAM's while players can only scale up damage production, so we need something that can take a lot of damage meant for us and also tie up said enemy even with poor damage output.
b) Calling droids, why can't I call my droid without a camp, particularly crafting/med droids? Why should I be forced to keep Scout so I can travel around and call my droid without having to find a Scout to pop down a camp so I can heal myself (oh wait I'm in a camp, I don't need the droid then--what?) or craft a power-up or a guild hall (yes I've crafted large things with my droid). This isn't a balance issue, it's a you must keep Scout, even if that's not in your player concept issue!
c) Medical healing droids, look I have Medic with First Aid II, which allows me to use stim-b's and stop bleeding, so that's mandatory for me also (as I have been shot with bleeding attacks less than 100m from the you are now leaving Mos Espa/Moenia etc.). I don't think medics are going to be out of a job, especially if you have the droids require loading in stims for better than stim-a functionality or loading woundpacks so as to heal wounds. Maybe medics could have a new stopbleeding pack that is for loading into droids. Medics/Doctors would still be able to make money the best way they already do, by selling hq stim-b's (or c's or whatever). A player shouldn't be forced to have novice medic just to do basic required healing on themselves--I know this is a hot button topic but that's my opinon. I know quite a few Doctors and they all make the majority of their money (millions of credits for several of them) by selling stim-b's or stim-c's with med use 30 or stim-d's with med use 40.
Padre Book
Intrepid Scientist & Craftng Station Guru
Droid Engineers want Players to Want their Droids
Here are some Ideas, that I think would make players want Droids More
1. Protical Droid: Nerf languages so you can't learn all of them. Then make Protical droids translate for players speaking other languages
2. Combat Droids: Droidekas and Battle Droids for all.
3. Medical: It's kind of lame to have a R2 that is just as good for medical as a Surgical Droid, Give the Surgical droid stim packs and other special abilites
4. Repair: Droids repair each other AND are Needed to repair VEHICLES/STARSHIPS
5. Binary Load Lifter:Give it a Animal Crate that Creature Handlers Can Use for capturing and transporting large numbers of animals.
6. Slicer: Give the R2 and R3 droids some slicing abilites that the Smuggler can use.
7. Power: Create Rechargable Batteries that PowerDroids can charge for a Fee. Then a player could walk up to my droid and re-charge his batteries for a fee I set.
In regards to Sintrosi's Plan....Its step in the right diretion
Item #1
I like the idea but only for combat droids, have R2 and C3P0 running around blasting things would be silly.
Item #2
Absolutly, I want to be able to stand on the street corner and offer Repair/Power Services to players as a Buisness. This would require 2 non-combat droids at a time.
Item #3
Um sort of. I want a REASON to use certain droid chassis.
Repair droids for vehiles/Droids
R2 for Slicing
Medical for Medical
Combat for Combat
Protical for Language Translation
*****What is
WHAT?? OMG!!! We have posted a hundred times what we would like to see. You just need to open your eyes.
Sintrosi, if I were you, I'd bail, it's absolutely ridiculous that TH makes such an insane statement. Almost as bad as suggesting that you are "exploiting" if you are multi-classed. **edit**, where did they get this guy???
I am very appreciative of your concern and dillagence TH, thank you for your continued interest. I think I am going to try to summarize what people of the DE proffession want.
(DE's are crafters, they want things that A.) will sell. B.) Will continue to sell. DE's are most concerned with maintaining customers.
1. The DE items and profession fixed. We want the modules to have good usefulness and work.
Datamodules are worthless, I don't know anyone who has a full datapad of waypoints, and thatistheonly thing you can put in there!
2. More droid chassis, all with Specialized abilities. I.E. - the repair droid getting bonuses when it repairs things so that it is better than a mouse droid with the same repair module.
Survey/resource seeking droid, holographic projection droid (Might help Rifleman get in a few extra shots before spoted).
3. More Combat Chassis that everyone can use, some that compete with CH Pets. I.E. - Destroyer Droid and ...(There a lot of web sites that list combat droids from the movies and more. Someone please post one.)
Maybe to balance thisthe combat droid level a person could use would be dependant on the amount of skill points used on combat classes?
New Droid Modules. I.E. -
Shield modules for combat droids, weapon modules like Hvy weapon..., special attack modules like stun..., possibly interchangable weapons,
slicing modules, maintainance modules that reduce cost of building maintainence, vendor modules
Overall the SOE plan had some good and bad.
It didn't seem to give us any more"Marketable" droids other than power droids, but regular players wouldn't be able to have 2 droids out at once so it couldn't charge their own droids. The harvester power thing seems good if balanced so that it is cost-effective.
KamiKazi droids? I know a lot of people asked for them, and they might be ok. But it is really low on our list.
Surgery Droid proposals were all good! It needs to have some usefullness to non-medic professions like it stim-packing them when commanded and maybe heal poisons. And maybe heal the slowly.
Balancing Surgery Droids seems pretty easy to me. Letthem lessen the amount of mind used when medics heal damage and wounds when around them. OOH! And maybe lessen the effects of decay from incaps and being slain when used with a medic.
We all agree that we should have more than one droid out at a time.
The Increased Repair droid Functionality is very welcome!
Automatically stimming incap'd players is good too!
Wound damage on droids for being used has potential,that makes repair droids have a use. Good Idea for increased dependency, wich means more sales.
Giving Protocol Droids a stronger role- we all agree with this.
TH, I have gone over all your questions as best as I could. I hope you read it because those are the specifics you wanted on what we DE's are looking for. I really Hope it helps. Overall droid engineers want a stronger role in the game by giving droid increased usefulness for a wide variety of professions.
Oh, Good Morning TH,
Graushwein
OrionsByte wrote:
Thunderheart - thanks for taking the time to hear our concerns. I honestly don't think that you'll find much here that isn't posted in at least 3 other places, but at least it will allow you to coallate the information.
Sintrosi's State of the Profession:
I haven't been a DE for that long - though I've been working towards it since practically before I bought the game. I'm not a power gamer and I prefer to advance through the profession at a more realistic pace rather than "grinding" up to the levels I want to be at.
Having said that, it's hard for me to assess about half of what Sintrosi said history-wise, but as far as current events are concerned, I completely agree. My short existance as a DE has been a tumultuous one (I reached Novice DE shortly before the holiday weekend when no one could build droids) and while I'm still excited about the profession, it's kind of like buying a sprots car capable of going 300mph and being stuck in traffic that's going 35.
The Plan
I generally agree with the direction of the plan, but I'll pick a few points on which to dissent:
Combat droids. I'm glad you guys are looking in to this, because it means we'll have some more marketable merchandise. However, I don't feel that it addresses the homogenous nature of the items we craft. Combat modules are fine, so long as they are more or less effective depending on the chassis they are put in. The same thing, obviously, applies to the existing modules.
As droids get more complex, they should be allowed to have more complex modules. An MSE droid should not be allowed to have a Level 4 Medical Module, for example. There should be caps on exactly what can be placed in each chassis. If that's not possible, then perhaps the chassis used can have some sort of effect on the module placed; for instance a Repair Module placed in an R5 droid doesn't perform as well as if it were placed in a Treadwell droid, or something to that effect (I realize I'm being a bit vague again...).
I'm glad that the role of medical droids, power droids, and MSE's (kaBOOM!) are being looked in to, but again the biggest issue to me is diversifying and expanding the role of droids in general. I'd like to see some uses for droids that aren't necessary for one to progress through the game, but that make it much more enjoyable. I want people to get excited about obtaining a droid. A great example was posted here: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=33816
The thread I linked to here is a great example of what I was going for, but for the sake of keeping everything in one place, I'll summarize it here. Basically, Alacrity was suggesting that MSE's could be used as delivery droids. Give it a waypoint and send it off to deliver merchandise or messages. There's a lot of good ideas in that thread, I encourage you to read it.
Other diversified uses for droids?
Harvester maintenance. You kind of addressed this with the part of the PLAN regarding power droids, but a lot of us would like to see droids that could make our harvester runs for us, or at least stand there and allow us to manage it remotely (You receive a message from your droid: "Oh my, sir, your harvester is almost out of maintenance fees! Would you like me to turn it off?")
Mobile entertainment droids. I've seen these referred to as karaoke droids. Healers can use a medical droid to heal anyone, anywhere. Why not grant the same ability to our wonderful entertainers?
How about droids that can go and take a tissue sample from a nest, so that BE's don't have to risk their lives to go get them? This seems likeit would be a perfectly viable real-world type role for a droid.
Hmm what else... radar droids? Send a droid in to scout out an area before you dive in to a potentially hostile area.
These are just a few ideas; hopefully it gets your creative juices goin'...
I think that generally covers my concerns. Again, thank you thank you thank you for your attention.
Thanks again!
1. Agree with Sintrosi.
2. Combat Modules: For enhancing COMBAT droids, great. Making Treadwell droids fight by inserting a combat module? Not so great. Putting bigger weapons on your probot, or other combat chassis, neat.
Chassis choice: It should mean something!
Droids should help other people too, like Slicers, Bio-engineers, Rangers.
Harvester droids! Besides power droids that plug in, how about a droid that can go fetch/maintain your harvesters? Maybe (gasp!) the BLL for carrying the load, and some other droid to maintain it! =) Make it expensive and balance it however you need, but do it! =P
And droids should need to be overhauled occassionally. Every 3-6 months, even on a crafting droid. dunno.
Here's one of the greatest clues about Droid Engineers (and crafters in general): They want their items to be in demand.
*watches as my post gets lost in the fray*
Thunderheart wrote:1. I need to know if you agree or disagree with Sintrosi's Plan
2. I need to know if you agree or disagree with the rough DE plan in general
Also, please post the changes you would make to the DE plan. Thanks
Sintrosi has a pretty good idea of what's broken with DE's, although I haven't always agreed on what she wants to do about it. I do agree with the general direction of DE's, provided they don't become "just another CH."
Here is what I'd do to fix DE's in a vague order of importance:
1) Give a use for non-masters. Eliminate the need to grind to make anything useful. Droid storage compartments are good but require lots of experimentation -- make a non-factory low-level DE item as a component to structures. Perhaps a droid (even a MSE) can be added to a structure to reduce maintenance, or something along those lines. Allow several droids to be placed into player cities and incorporated like turrets into a base, which will raise the effects of municipal buildings a slight amount. Look at weaponsmiths: noone wants a non-master weapon. They are in the same boat.
2) Droid and machine repair kits! DE item that will be used to repair all mechanical items, such as AT-ST, landspeeders, and droids. It'll act like a healing kit, not a wound kit. Repair droids can repair the black bar wounds.
3) Give bonuses for specialized droids. Repair droids should be better at repairing. Surgical droids should be better at surging. Naturally, fix all the goofy bugs already related to this. The amount repaired should be reflected on the quality of the repair module, plus any bonuses.
3.5) Fix broken modules and bugs. Data storage should hold waypoints, duhhh. And what's wrong with a data storage module that can hold a few missions, too? (sure, 150 missions is excessive) Or a "cage" module that'll hold a few pets?
4) Give a reason to experiment but don't screw the budding novice DE. Things like repair modules, med modules, and crafting stations should incorporate experimentation. All droids should have Health significantly affected by experimentation (more than the 4 point increase with +60%). But non-experimented items should still have a use.
5) Droid Certifications. Give a cert to every Elite class to use a probot, and buff up the damage output significantly. Experimentation should somewhat affect the damage and health. Make the DZ-70 worthwhile with no certification, like 75-100 damage and 500 health. Along with this, have a starting limit of two stored droids in datapad, and go up to five stored droids with this certification. DE's should have a limit of at least 10 stored droids.
6) Stick with the genre. Fix probots to actually RELAY INTELLIGENCE DATA, which is their purpose. Sure, let folks use them as fighting droids if desired, but allow a survey tool to be used as a module which will store waypoints in the data module. Give it a desired resource, a concentration limit, a survey distance limit, and send it in a direction. It will travel erratically in the general direction sent, and survey every "distance limit" and store waypoints of the highest concentrations it sees that exceed the concentration limit. This is a great use for the probots, plus it'd open up a HUGE market for truly useful droids. Since you must put both a survey tool and a data module in the droid, people will buy several. Batteries should last 30 min or so when freshly charged.
7) Allow one combat, multiple non-com droids out for everyone Find the right balance.... DE's should get a bonus.
8) All droids should be useful One word: BLL.
The feedback in this thread is getting really really great folks!
Thanks very much 
Speaking as a Musician...
I wanta Droid that will join in my music. Provide some Techno, as it were.
-Tre
Just my 2 cents.
Make DE more like CH. DE's should be able to capture NPC droids, and resell/modify them. Give them a functional Jawa Blaster, that disables droids, and allows them to be captured. Restraining bolts to keep them inline, etc. Yes, let's move away from the current animal battle system to a droid version of **edit**. That way it will be more Star Warsy.
I would gladly trade my wrix for a pair of droidekas, or IG assaign droids. There were plenty of droids in EP I and II to easily match the current level of animals. Imagine a Hailfire droid vs. Rancor.
And in the hopes that this gets read...
Thunder.... Thunder... Thunderheart HOOOOO!!!