Droid Engineer Archive

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Daker-Naritus wrote:

It is true this would be the equivalent of a new profession, but I don't envison it taking 6 months to implement...more like another month or 2. Additionally, according to the devs, all professions will be substantially fixed in the combat balance (patch 8), so there should be no reservations from Rune-Sabre after that. Additionally, almost all DEs have succumbed to the fact that we are getting bug fixes and utility droids in the next 2 patches. If we had to wait a little longer (as publish 9)for this proposal to be implemented, isit that much different from what we are already going to get?

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Their development cycle is probably planned for at least the next 6 months, and I believe TH said it may even be a year. If something isn't done soon, as in Publish 8, we're probably SOL. They can't just throw something else off of the schedule because we want MORE attention.

duncje wrote:

Good ideas here as well. I just have a couple issues, given the current state of DE.

This proposal would be much harder to add in terms of game development than the other one. Not only is a new profession (be it a mini-profession) added, there are "specials" included as well, which only add to the coding/balancing time.

Yes and no. I would love the specials, but they aren't required. Honestly, I envisioned the other plan including specials in the DE handling tree.

If you take out the specials the result is still the same...about the same skill point cost, and about the same power, as CH and Sodan's plan.

I fear the Devs might think it is unbalanced. It is 5 less skill points, and virtually nobody is excluded from taking this new profession, as at minimum only a single novice tree and a novice elite profession is needed. The "other" plan errs more on the side of conservativeness.

Again, yes and no.

(1) What is the difference in 5 skill points? Is a 0001 Pistoleer that different from a 0000 Pistoleer? It's not much, especially considering that a novice CH gets a +1 pets immediately, whereas a novice DC would not until master. Additionally, pets can be bioengineered to have poison and other great specials, whereas droids are basically limited to damage. Think that more than justifies a 5 point deficit.

(2) No one is excluded from the droids in the other plan either, you just have to take up DE. Please note that no one gets anything in my plan until they get a novice elite profession AND spend 10 skill points. Please also note that the initial 10 skill points gives them only a +2 to droid level, so you really don't have access to anything without a skill point investment close to what the other plan offers. Finally, please note that the other plan STILL allows everyone to have droids, you just have to master engineering first.

This plan essentially removes the engineering/novice DE requirement that the other plan proposes, and replaces it so that any other tree/novice profession will do. This isn't bad, it's good...it makes droids more available to those who want to buy them, while charging almost EXACTLY the same skill cost for them.

The point that Runesabre made about not adding new professions until the existing ones are fixed brings up the question "When?"

I really truly believe this could be fit in publish 9....the combat balance should fix 90% of the problems in the game according to TH's mantra: "It will be fixed in the combat balance."

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duncje wrote:

Their development cycle is probably planned for at least the next 6 months, and I believe TH said it may even be a year. If something isn't done soon, as in Publish 8, we're probably SOL. They can't just throw something else off of the schedule because we want MORE attention.

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My concern is that the developers are going to look at the "any elite profession" requirement and reject it immediately.

It is clear from previous dev postings that they are concerned about keeping high end PvE combat interesting to groups of maxed out combat characters, and this would allow creation of new top end PvE templates that could solo the very toughest mobs now in existance by using their droids to tank.

Do you really believe they are going to accept the idea of letting TKA or Rifleman be the pre-requsite for DC? Those are just the kinds of professions that they don't want combined with it, at least at too high a level. After all, the Scout pre-requsites for CH don't give much combat advantage.

Oh well, at least the maximum droid level proposed is weak enough that it is possible that this might fly.

Anything that allows real combat droids would be good. The newbie-only ones are just too tragic for words.

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Virtanis wrote:

"It is my opinion that a new profession should be a unique, interestingaddition to the game that is not merely a copy or derivative of an existing class. There are already too manyprofessions in SWG that are similar with each other; I did not want to add to that problem. The Droid Commander profession would have needed a lot more development time than I had to spend in the schedule to ensure it was not simply a "metallic CH" profession. Finally, as mentioned before, it is my goal to ensure that all existing professions have their own unique, viable identity in SWG before thinking about adding new professions to the game."

-Runesabre, February 2004

An additional profession with two trees rather than four is still an additional profession. I don't like it.

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To quote Drashk:

This is something new...it's not a full profession, it isn't based on scout like CH is, and it has a whole new set of specials nothing like those of CH.

Instead it is a different format of "bonus skills" (not a profession) that people can get above and beyond their current skills, branching off of all elite trees.

I just makes sense...anyone can use droids...only CHs can use creatures. It takes a full profession and scouting experience to learn how to tame and control creatures, it takes only experience with droids to learn how to be better with droids.

I think the 2 are totally different, but that is just me.

A fewcomments on this.

Firstly, I would not like the idea of require novice in an elite profession to unlock the Droid Commander mini-tree. The reason is simply because no other skill tree works this way. They all come off of either one or more #4 boxes or else off of one or more Master boxes. While I am fairly certain the code could handle a novice skill as a prereq it is just a bit ugly in relation to the current skill system.

The second comment is why does this need to be a mini-tree and limited to two branches? If you were to keep the two branches more or less as is you could then add two more branches. People soley interested in controlling droids could take the two branches currently proposed. People interested in not only controlling the droids but in doing so more effectively could purchase the other two branches as well as Master.

I'm not really wild about the specific special abilities proposed but I like the concept.I like the idea that a skilled droid commander not only commands better droids but can also command their droids more effectively than other players. While most people are looking at the Droid Commander concept as a metallic version of Creature Handler I would envision it to be much closer to Squad Leader. Give them abilities to help their droids move faster over rough terrain, shoot more accurately, etc. (I admit I am not really up on all the abilities of the Squad Leader).

Lastly, to people who are worried about Sodan's proposal, there is actually nothing in this proposal that conflicts directly with Sodan's. Sodan's proposal would let DEs control combat droids, but without the ability to organize multiple droids in battle and augment their abilities. Meanwhile people who simply want to command droids but who do not wish to grind up through Engineering and Droid Experimentation can chose this class instead (once prereqs are met).

Their may need to be some caps put in place to avoid MDEs learning Droid Commander and having ludicrously high numbers of droids to call with extremely high levels, but that is no more complex than the defense stacking limits they are adding now.

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Lonkley wrote:

The main problem is that its still another profession, the Droid Commander, which 90% of people didnt want. Except now its harder to implement because it doesnt fit the current profession system.

Also if either of the proposals cant be done by publish 8, its history. The devs have stated they are booked for 2004.

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Again, quoting Drashk: "The Droid Engineers have responded that they wish to see everyone get the ability to use Combat Droids. Droid Engineers have also stated that they would like to remain the crafting profession."

The DH proposal failed because it limited droids to the DEprofession (spread throughout) and didn't provide anything to sell to others. The proposal you are advocating does the exact same thing, it just consolidates it into one tree instead of 4 (thereby encouraging people to take on the DE profession to get the droids they want).

This proposal is totally different, and allows people to spenda balancedamount ofskill points outside the DE profession to get access to combat droids. It addresses the EXACT reason everyone shot the DH proposal down in the first place (limiting droids to only DEs).

The only reason people are balking now is that everyone have been beat into submission by the threat of getting nothing. I personally think it is wrong for us to settle for something over 75% of ushated when we voted, and think that this is a perfect compromise for all parties.

Actually, Engineering is one of the more relaxing trees to grind up compared to some others. In the end the points cost setup in Sodans was designed so that combat classes could gain droid pets almost exactly the same way that they could if they grinded out the same amount of skill points in CH instead. Sodans just also offers more bonus to being a DE, as compared to now as there are few (if any).

The only conflict I'm worried about is the community tearing itself apart. As said in the post above, I'd rather have Combat Droids than nothing, which is why I'm speaking. This can only happen if it issomething that the Devswould be willing to implementandthe vast majority of the DE population agrees and is willing to work together towards it.

I feel this plan isn't as good because A) It is much harder for the Devs to implement and B) while it accomplishes getting droids into the game, it doesn't make playing DE any more worthwhile than Sodan's plan (in fact I feelit is less worthwhile as DEs don't get anything cool).

I'm sorry, just the way I see it.

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Daker-Naritus wrote:

To quote Drashk:

"The DEVs have stated they feel that a Cert System will not work and that a Droid Handler Profession would be the best route. The Droid Engineers have responded that they wish to see everyone get the ability to use Combat Droids. Droid Engineers have also stated that they would like to remain the crafting profession that it is......." 01-25-2004

To quote Runesabre:

"It is my opinion that a new profession should be a unique, interestingaddition to the game that is not merely a copy or derivative of an existing class. There are already too manyprofessions in SWG that are similar with each other; I did not want to add to that problem. The Droid Commander profession would have needed a lot more development time than I had to spend in the schedule to ensure it was not simply a "metallic CH" profession. Finally, as mentioned before, it is my goal to ensure that all existing professions have their own unique, viable identity in SWG before thinking about adding new professions to the game." 02-03-2004

I'm sure Runesabre's commentsoutweigh those of Drashk's, since they were made nine days later, Daker.

This is something new...it's not a full profession, it isn't based on scout like CH is, and it has a whole new set of specials nothing like those of CH.

A hybrid approach is something new as well, and that's my preference. I'd also like to addhybrid ismy preference nowonly becausethe dev's waffled and pulled the certification idea Holocron said we'd get. A droid commander profession, based on 2, 1, or 4skill trees is the absolute worst solution, in my opinion

I just makes sense...anyone can use droids...only CHs can use creatures. (correction: except forCL10 creature pets)

Runesabre's comments are still rock solid and dead on, in my opinion.

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