CUEmu - Thread Posts

Hillslayer

Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:55 pm

Maybe limit how high a droid can go in it's skills by the player's skills (and requires skill points as per TH).

Novice Droid Usage - Free

-Allows use of all droids and functions to date.
-Allows droids to train "Novice Droid"

Intermediate Droid Usage - Pre-Reqs (Tier 4 inanyBrawler/Marksman/Scout/Medic skill, Master Elite Artisan/Elite Entertainer)- ??? Skill Points

-Allows use of level ??? Roger-Roger droids.

-Unlocks first tier of droid skills.

Advanced Droid Usage - Pre-Reqs (Master Brawler/Marksman/Scout/Medic, Novice Combat and Hybrid Elites)- ??? Skill Points

-Allows use of level ??? Droidekka droids.

-Unlocks second tier of droid skills.

Master Droid Usage - Pre-Reqs (Master Combat and Hybrid Elites)- ??? Skill Points

-Allows use of level ??? IG-72 droids.

-Unlocks third tier of droid skills.

Droid Engineer Usage - Pre-Reqs (Master Droid Engineer) - Free

-No new droids unless non-combat related.

-Unlocks "Master Droid" training which doesn't effect combat or anything but simply does something nice for DEs like allows the installation of a fusion generator into thier droid so it doesn't need batteries.

Droid Engineers get the skills a bit differently.

1 Tier DEComplete - Nothing

2 Tiers DEComplete - Intermediate Droid Usage

3 Tiers DE Complete - Advanced Droid Usage

4 Tiers DE Complete - Master Droid Usage

Master DE Complete - Droid Engineer Usage

Note, if you untrain the skills required to use something you loose the ability to use the skill. If your only Master Elite / Hybrid Combat profession is Rifleman and you drop it you also loose Master Droid Usage

-Jaramar Hillslayer
Ex-Chef Ex-Squad Leader Ex-Pikeman Ex-Rifleman Droid Engineer

SOE's favorite SW quote - "I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further."

Raawuuf

Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:33 pm

#15

this got me thinking in 2 directions, both of which are unlikely to ever happen but would be alot of fun:

my first idea is to make droids more like players. this would work best with "humanoid" droids but anyway...

a) give them skill points (maybe half of what a player gets or limit them to base classes only) and let players train them via other players and NPC trainers (defer cost to owner)

b) let the droid gain xpforANYaction the ownerhas it perform(separate from player xp) such as combat (with appropriate weapon),crafting (would need the tools, materials), etc... within the bounds of it's chosen path.

c) droids would be able to fight on behalf of their owner, create items as directed, heal, or even entertain but would be unable to do any ofthese as well as a player at same skill level.

d) could have their brains moved to new bodies for upgradesand/orrecovery from major battle damage with little or no loss of skill

e) ALL previous learned skills would be LOST if the droid was traded to another player (mem wipe)

my other idea could easily fit in with the upcoming "space expansion" that is palnned for this year. they have already stated that new playable races were going to be added SO why not let players BE droids? once again this would work best with "humanoid" types but could be ALOT of fun! the roleplayers would LOVE this!!!

there is strong argument for this because several droid types are completely self-aware and go about their business just anyone else.

a few changes to everyday "life" for a droid player would be:

a) would have to see an artisan/droid engineer for healing/repairs instead of a medic/doctor

b) would use batteries and/or newly added droid "stims" for base stat augmentation instead of foodand spice

c) wouldn't be able to wear conventional armor (like wookies) BUT would be able to use shield generators and maybe have armor added by a DE (which would wear out like other armors)

d) would have slightly different vulnerabilities than a biological player (EMP, electric)

c) would have NO bonuess to base stats at char creation (except for base profession choice changes) but maybe let them gain XP 5% faster or something

d) would be blocked as a race choice for force sensitive slots

just my 2 cents but BOTH would remove the need for a droid handler profession hehehe!!!!

a wookie can DREAM can't he?!

TyeDyeBoy

Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:44 pm

#16

[img-jawdrop] Light just shone down from the heavens and I swear I hear angels singing.

YES! This is the answer! This is the elusive resolution I've been hoping for. Droids SHOULD be upgradeable! They DO learn!

If this hasn't been PM'd to TH yet, it should be, stat! Oh my god, this is beautiful. I'm close to openly weeping here. This is the change that droids need. It solves the problem of droids being pets, because now they aren't pets, they really ARE lifetime companions!

My friend, I would like to have your manbabies. And as my friends in Goonsquad know, that's a rare thing. My god.

Barfalomue

Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:10 pm

#17

TyeDyeBoy wrote:

My friend, I would like to have your manbabies. And as my friends in Goonsquad know, that's a rare thing. My god.

Who are you referring to?

__________________________________________________________
~Aspi, Tempest, Master Droid Engineer-Master Artisan-Master Merchant-Master Pistoleer Retiree~Vendors-JaxBay Tent Mall
~~~Wearer of Sword of Opinion (+20 to pucker factor attack)~~~
~~"Is that a cookie in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"~~

Barfalomue

Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:17 am

#18

I have created this thread because my other thread was innocently misunderstood by TH, and manyreaders there then followed his thought. It was beginning to look like the blind leading the deaf at night. (I'm sorry, couldn't help myself, TH, keep reading.

)

Another reason I have started this thread is to combine all of our thoughts into just one good one. (At least the good that I have seen from other post.)

To start off please understand: There is no want nor need by DE or anyone else to create a Droid Handler profession. This summation of our ideas adapts all existing professions and does NOT add any additional whatsoever. It also does not include certifications. This idea would provide an equal share to anyone wanting to use a droid. With ability to advance them, if that individual pleases. SO PLEASE DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND. THIS IDEA DOES NOT NEGOTIATE A DH PROFESSION NOR CERTIFICATIONS. IT TAKES ADVANTAGE OF EVERYTHING IN THE GAME ALREADY.

Ok. First let me summarize the ideas. Then I will follow it up with a way to incorporate each into the existing game (as per popular interests from other posts).

Ideas:

Droids have their own Skill Tree, available to them only, part of them. This is not a branch nor independent tree as part of a player's skill trees. (please do not confuse the two.).

Droids are modifiable, upgradeable, and master-oriented with DE providing Upgrades and Training.

Droid's Skills are able to be progressed and bettered through their being used for what they are designed.

Droids are co-player maintained. (Droid Decay & Destruction)

Droids providing balance in the game and following TH's requirements for pets plus some additional reinforcements.

Explanation and Integration into our game:

#1: Droids have their own Skill Tree, available to them only, part of them. This is not a branch nor independent tree as part of a player's skill trees. (please do not confuse the two.).

Ok, just to re-iterate to keep from miscommunication or misunderstanding, I will explain this concept in detail.

With this idea, droids would have their own skill tree. This means it would be separate from the player. Consider the droid as an NPC Player. Think of it as (and this may be lame, but good popularly-known explanation) **edit**. Their handlers did not learn the skills the **edit** use. The **edit** learn the skills the **edit** use. You can also think of it somewhat as a part of something in SWG now. Socketed Clothing. When you add a SKILLTAPE, it modifies your clothing, not your player tree. So in essence, the Droids here would have the ability to unlock new "sockets," if you will (skill tree blocks), for you to add pre-designated skills which are governed by that Skill Tree Block, just as in a standard Skill Tree...These skills which would modify the droid, giving it new options, new capabilities and newupgrades. Which, brings me to #2.

#2: Droids are modifiable, upgradeable, and master-oriented with DE providing Upgrades and Training.

Ok, these upgrades and options are determined by skills learned through the Droid's Skill Tree. Options could be swappable weapon attachments, storage containers, personality chips. (Perhaps a droid can only be stupid to start off, but progress after learning new skills). Perhaps a "Droid Personal Generator" is an option at some point in the Droid's skill tree which would allow it to not consume baterries as quickly, or at all, depending on level/quality of droid/generator.

All training would be applied by a DE. Droid attachments would be swapped out by Droid Engineers. This will aid in keeping Droids in demand.

#3: Droid's Skills are able to be progressed and bettered through their being used for what they are designed.

To kind of backtrack, droids can advance with use. Whether used for utility or combat, a droid gains abilities based on its design through using it. Since we are all 'battle-droid' savy, I will use this for an example.

A battle droid has a basic blaster. The droid's master takes it out hunting. It kills off 50 Durni (rotten little rodents. :smileywink. After 50 Durni kills, a mesage pops on your screen: "Battle Droid 'Droideka-007' has ability to learn new skill(s). Would you like to look at it's skill tree now?" With option "Yes" or "No." You select "Yes." This takes you to that particular Droid's Skill tree, also accessable through Droid's Radial Menu in datapad. Just for example: You see there are: "Weapon Enhancements," "Efficiency," "Battle Movements," and "Defensive Capabilities." So you look them over and decide you want "Weapon Enhancements 1: Medium Ranged Weapons." This would include carbine and small rifle-like weapons. So, you contact a DE and ask him what he has to offer. The DE replies to you by saying: "I can make Droideka Rotating Blaster Attachment." All is well. You meet with the DE. He trains (to be explained later) the droid, creates the new weapon, removes the old (which by default is destroyed upon removal) and attaches it to the droid. Returning it to the stamped master (to be explained later), the stamped master finds his droid with the new skill and a new weapon attachment (not just different fire coming from its gun, change the graphic as well). So the master of the droid takes the droid off to continue his quest.

This all kind of hatches a bit into #4.

#4: Droids are co-player maintained. (Droid Decay & Destruction)

All too often, I see that people have vehicles and pets. Once they are purchased, rarely do they need replaced. This drives the market down and take away from the SWG players. I propose, and many have added to this idea, that we create a co-player maintenance on droids. Explained in #3 is the idea of weapons, or upgrades and training. Those are a part of it. But more than that, I think the weapon/utility attachments on the droids should have a decay rate determined by amount of use and quality of attachment. This would keep DE in their field, and not have it dither away after everyone has the best droid in the galaxy. Perhaps make these weapon/utility attachments repairable with a "repair kit" available to anyone for use, but only created by DE. However, everytime the droid's attachments are repaired, if successful (as with armor, it can fail sometimes), the attachment automatically and with no-choiceloses 5-10% of its current max condition. Possibly add in the case of when it reaches 50% of its original manufactured status, it loses 5% effetiveness for every 10% it drops in condition. This would inevitably mean that at some point they are going to have to have it replaced/upgraded. Also, a repair kit to heal the Droid's HAM during battle could be incorporated. This would be similar to a Pet Stim.

I think this would add a personal touch to each droid, rarely having one droid exactly as any other.

#5: Droids providing balance in the game and following TH's requirements for pets plus some additional reinforcements.

I will explain my thought of Master Stamping before I answer #5.

Master Stamping - This would be where when a droid begins to learn skills, it is Stamped to that Master. The skills it attains are solely at use to he/she who was with it when it learned those skills.

OK, now balance/requirement meeting.

This is going to be a bit difficult to explain, but I will give it a shot. I suppose the best wayis to explain the life of a droid in this system from its original assembly.

I, a DE, create a Droideka to sell. I attach a basic weapon to it. I get a message in-game: "Do you have a droideka for sale?" "Yes." I answer. He comes to me and pays me for the droid and takes it.

He (let's call him Bob)...Bob takes the droid and engages in battle. The droid has ability to learn a new skill. Bob comes back to me, trades me the droid, tells me the skill he wants (which then requires 3 of Bob's Skill Points, AND 2000 of his Combat Experience) Bob says "OK." I call the droid and begin to teach it the new skill. A message is sent to Bob: "Aspi has decided to teach your Droid 'Weapon Enhancements 1: Medium Ranged Weapons.' This skill will cost you 2000 Combat Experience Points and 3 Skill Points. Will you allow Aspi to train you droid?" Bob Selects "No." acidentally. A message ghosts on Aspi's screen: "Bob has declined your offer to train his droid." Bob says: "Oops. I didn't mean to do that, can you try again?" So they get it sorted out. The droid learns the new skill and Bob pays me to attacha new weapon to his droid.

Bob gets the droid to a mid-level droid. He decides he is going to change his profession to Entertainer. So, he figures he no longer needs the droid. He decides to sell the Droid. Tim comes along and buys the droid. (this is where droid stamping comes in). Bob trades the droid to Tim. Tim notices the droid has 2/2/2/3 across its Skill Tree. "Hmm nice. Too bad I can't use it, LOL." So Bob and Tim go their separate ways.

Tim takes the Droid and tells it to attack a Durni. The Droid does not attack. But rather, a message is sent to Tim: "Are you sure you want to remove Stamped Skills from Droideka-007?" He selects "Yes." A ghost text appears on Tim's Screen: "Droideka-007 has insufficient skills to use 'Rotating Blaster Attachment.' "

Tim brings it to me and pays me to swap its weapon out for the basic weapon.

Over time, Tim levels his Droid. It dies a few times. He gets it to almost "Master Assault Droideka" status and it dies for the 15th time (subject to change). Upon it's 15th incap, a Ghosted Message appears on Tim's screen: "Your droid has suffered massive damage and is irrepairable, please select destroy from datapad." (this # of lives would be reset if traded between players. This would keep from someone saying they are selling a new droid, when it is on its last life.) Alternate to this, is maybe have the droid lose all of its Skills on its 9th death or something, rather than having it completely destroyed. I think the 2nd option would be best. people may be affraid to spend money on a droid in fear of it being lost (but it is reality).

---There are a few things this story does not cover. That being an additional balancing technique. Each type of droid (battle, entertainer, utility) derives its skills dependent upon its master's abilities. For example, a battle droid would work off of its master's Combat XP. An entertainer would work off of its master's Entertainer XP and a utility Droid would run off of General XP (i.e. The idea of a droid to maintain harvesters, may run off of some basix xp. Whatever the master's original chosen profession from character creation may be...that could be a possibility, but may cause concern for people who may have dropped that profession), or a crafter's xp if the droid is being used for its complimenting crafting abilities.

This would limit combat use to combatants, entertaining abilities to entertainers and so forth...keeping each person to his/her own profession. That would be a fair balance in the game. In real life, a librarian is not going to have a Tank in her purse just because someone might come along and start a war with her...LOL. She would want an organizer, a caclulator, date book, etc...to assist her with her daily duties at the library.Same with a policeman. He/She wouldn't have Martha Stewart Livingitems in his trunk because he likes to assist law-offenders in tideying up their homes before he drags them to jail. LOL. People want droids to compliment their own skills and professions. Someone with Entertainer can not have their Droid learn Combat Skills. But, if you are an entertainer and a Marksman, you could have 2 droids. An entertainer Droid and a combat Droid. Please don't retort to this by saying you want multi-tasking Droids. I never saw a Droideka in the movies suddenly stop killing to take some time in a cantina to play a few bars of the newest hippest song. LOL.

To clear up a possible misunderstanding. Let's say you are a warrior. You have a combat droid. It is a master combat droid. You drop your entire combat profession to become a dancer. The droid will retain those skills, but they will be lost if you try to use it in battle. It keeps them there in case you decide to go back to combat profession. (This is a little dicey, perhaps a small modification in concept on the DEVS' part would clear it up.)

In closing, I hope this clears up any misunderstanding from my previous post:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=53337

Please add your comments here, I hope a Moderator, TH or the like, take a look at this and think it over. I feel, as I am sure many of my readers will as well, that this would be a wonderful addition to this game. Personally, I would be willing to wait a few extra weeks or months to see this type of thing brought into this game. It would definitely get my attention REAL QUICK!

_______________________________________

__________________________________________________________
~Aspi, Tempest, Master Droid Engineer-Master Artisan-Master Merchant-Master Pistoleer Retiree~Vendors-JaxBay Tent Mall
~~~Wearer of Sword of Opinion (+20 to pucker factor attack)~~~
~~"Is that a cookie in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"~~

Barfalomue

Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:21 am

#19

Barfalomue wrote:

With this idea, droids would have their own skill tree. This means it would be separate from the player. Consider the droid as an NPC Player. Think of it as (and this may be lame, but good popularly-known explanation) **edit**. Their handlers did not learn the skills the **edit** use. The **edit** learn the skills the **edit** use. You can also think of it somewhat as a part of something in SWG now. Socketed Clothing. When you add a SKILLTAPE, it modifies your clothing, not your player tree. So in essence, the Droids here would have the ability to unlock new "sockets," if you will (skill tree blocks), for you to add pre-designated skills which are governed by that Skill Tree Block, just as in a standard Skill Tree...These skills which would modify the droid, giving it new options, new capabilities and newupgrades. Which, brings me to #2.

I can not believe they edit out the word "Poke-Mon" or "Poke Mon" (LOL wasnt sure if either of those were edited either)

__________________________________________________________
~Aspi, Tempest, Master Droid Engineer-Master Artisan-Master Merchant-Master Pistoleer Retiree~Vendors-JaxBay Tent Mall
~~~Wearer of Sword of Opinion (+20 to pucker factor attack)~~~
~~"Is that a cookie in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"~~

N0RAX

Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:30 am

#20

I personally love this idea. It solves a lot of problems. Let me resay some things I stated in the other thread.

Anyone can use them. No need for DH or DE only droids. Yet at the same time it maintains balance by costing the playing skill points and taking as long to level up as any other normal profession.

One problem with this idea is that it would be a tough idea to implement, if not the toughest of all the ideas to implement. Devs can't just copy/paste the Creature Handler code with this idea. However, if we're going to go through with Combat Droids we might as well do it righ

-norax

blaisedinsd

Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:49 am

#21

Excellent post

This is an by far the better solution to adding a DH line to the DE tree.

This is by far the better solution than adding a DH profession.

This is a better idea than adding a mini DH profession.

This is by far the better solution then banging head with Dev's who say certs will imbalance combat.

The only problem is development time and effort to implement this idea in game. I think it would be well worth it and if done well and polishedup I think it would make the game much more appealing and help increase the subcriber base.

Arcid

Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:22 am

#22

The more I think about this idea, the more viable it seems, but the main problem I can see right now the the Devs may reject it because it looks too complex initally. I would thus say that ideas on how this can be implemented would be helpful to avert this.

Suggestion for implementation:

Skill Trees are essentally the players own, just in a seperate section of the skills window.

Artisan Skills (Crafting, slicing, medical survaying etc how about that, 4 ideas for 4 trees) Each of these abilities should give an increase in the relivant skill (OR if possible a percentage multiplier) which can only be used if the droid is within 5m of the character, much like medical or crafting stations right now.

Combat Skills: Ironicly this is even easier. It could simply be a set of bonuses to combat skills applied to the droid in the same manner as a squad leader.

To link these ideas to the particular droid brain they would have to check for that specific "brain code" attatched to the droid, and give each box of the skilltrees a set of 5 slots to hold braincodes, to allow multiple droids with the same skills.

PS I also think that for combat droids, each combat body should have a certification in the droid combat skill tree, as there is a potental for abuse if this isn't implemented

Arcid

Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:02 am

#23

Also, I think that in this system the combat level of droids would be easy to limit to non-combat people via the XP requirements.

Assume that the droid needs to have General Combat XP spent on them to increase combat skills. With the current skill system this is dependant on the damage YOU do to something in combat, not the damage your droid does. Thus, if someone doesn't upgrade their own combat skills in this case they will be getting a smaller percentage of the General Combat XP available per combat, effectivly a diminishing returns scenario.

Also, there is the simple mechanic of the General Combat XP cap. Putting droid combat level requirementsabove this effectivly blocks it to non-combatants, while providing no problems to Combatants.

Leadhead101

Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:43 am

#24

Wow, that idea is waaay awsome! I want it! That would make this profession the best in the game imho! You have solved all of the problems we have with combat droids! This must be the way to go! Lets do a poll on it and present it to Drashk to show TH!

"Nothing would be what it is, Because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise -what it is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?"

Arcid

Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:11 am

#25

Arcid wrote:

Also, I think that in this system the combat level of droids would be easy to limit to non-combat people via the XP requirements.

Assume that the droid needs to have General Combat XP spent on them to increase combat skills. With the current skill system this is dependant on the damage YOU do to something in combat, not the damage your droid does. Thus, if someone doesn't upgrade their own combat skills in this case they will be getting a smaller percentage of the General Combat XP available per combat, effectivly a diminishing returns scenario.

Also, there is the simple mechanic of the General Combat XP cap. Putting droid combat level requirementsabove this effectivly blocks it to non-combatants, while providing no problems to Combatants.

After Thinking about this I've started to wonder if there is a cap on General Combat XP. If not this could work with any sort of weapons/unarmed XP, but would then require more specialisation

Gruenpflanze

Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:41 am

#26

Your Ideas are great!

I´m sure, we will see them live in Publish 234 in about 5 years. - Sorry, but if TH stated a Player-skillbased-certificationsystem can´t be implemented, because it is too much programming ( time + cost), there wont be time, manpower, additional storagehardware to implement this idea the next year. Just think of those additional Databank-Servers for all the galaxies.

I love your Idea, but sorry it wont solve the problem, how to get new (combat) droidslive in next6 Month.Its a longterm idea, which should be discussed like that.

Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Droids should have Droid Skill Trees (thread #2)