Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: CU Skill Point Requirements Increasing
ArdenStarmariner wrote:
Sorry, but I'm sick of the double standard. DE being handicapped by being massively dependant on Master Artisan while other crafting professions are only dependent on their respective artisan branch (engineering 4, tailoring 4, cooking 4).
First off..
There isn't a double standard. Droid Engineer may require the largest number of Master Artisan parts, but we are in no way any different then Chef, Armorsmith, or Weaponsmith, when it comes to cross profession requirements. Tailor and Shipwright are the exceptions, when it comes being dependent on another profession.
Both Armorsmith and Weaponsmith require MA parts. Armorsmith also requires a lot of components from Tailor. Chef is pretty much dependent on Bio Engineer, if the person wants to make the best quality food.
Secondly....
Just like taking up combat skills, it is a choice to take up Master Artisan. Many, many people in this game have discovered that you do not need to have Master Artisan as a Droid Engineer, just like you don't have to be a Double or Triple Combat Master. Yes, it makes it easier to get the job done, but its not required.
Any single character is not supposed to be able to do every single thing in this game. That is one of the biggest hurdles that people keep stumbling over. A single person should not be able to go to any corner of any world and expect to be able to walk through the situation unscathed.
The Profession system in SWG is one of the greatest in any MMORPG. It gives great freedom to try out many different playstyles and allows for a great freedom of choice. But like all things, your choices are what decide your fate. If you chose to take on a greater role as a crafter, then your role in combat will be lacking. If you chose to take on the role of combat, then your crafting will more demanding.
Third and finally...
One of the major goals that the CU seems to be pushing towards are a greater number of multiple character involvement. When SWG first launched, character dependencies were seen through out the game. People from all walks of the combat spectrum would band together and go out hunting, together, You would see crafters pulling together to help each other gain markets and offer services to each other.
As time progressed, and the inital Jedi system was revealed, these bonds began to disappear. People began to group, only so that they could head their seperate directions and hunt on their own. Crafters became more competative in the market, due to the prospect of undercutting holo-grinders. Generally, the only bonds that seemed to hold true were those of established guilds.
The CU is one of the steps being taken to once again remind people that this a MMORPG and that the other people that you are in game with are there to help you and you are there to help them, through the higher-end content. We should see a return to the old days where a group of hunters form up and head out kill some Krayts, or Nightsisters, instead of taking on the task solo.
SWG has always been based upon the choices that we make with the number of skill points we have. The DEVs have realized that the skill point costs on some Combat professions must be raised, while others see a reduction, so that each profession can be balanced better with each other, and with the enviornment that they are a part of. With the current system, a Master Swordsmen orMaster TKAis a lot more powerful then a Master Squad Leader or Master Smuggler, yet the Smuggler and Squad Leader cost more points.
By increasing the number of skill points used for your standard elite combat professions and decreasing the point cost for the hybrid Elite combat professions, it will be much easier to balance out all combat professions and still allow for a greater number of possible combonation of skills (not to be confused with professions). This will become much more apparent, once the profession specific docs are released.
ArdenStarmariner wrote:
Yeah Yada Yada, whatever Drashk, speak to the hand. Keep right on talking and helping them drive nails into the DE coffin. You've always been great at running off at the mouth, arguing the DEV's side, and getting the DE community to bend over. At this point, I'm just about beyond giving a crap anymore.
Message Edited by ArdenStarmariner on 03-28-2005 10:20 AM
Arden, that is totally crap for you to say that. First, you know that here on the DE boards we are better then that, we talk about things don't insult each other, it's not like you are knew here man.
Second, God knows Drashk and I disagree a lot, heck, we hardly ever agree, that doesn't mean that him or I are wrong or taking the Devs side. On the CU forums, Drashk argues just as much for balance as anybody else.
Right now the game is in sad shape for a few reasons, there needs to be change. Change sometimes hurts.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
ArdenStarmariner wrote:
Yeah Yada Yada, whatever Drashk, speak to the hand. Keep right on talking and helping them drive nails into the DE coffin. You've always been great at running off at the mouth, arguing the DEV's side, and getting the DE community to bend over. At this point, I'm just about beyond giving a crap anymore.Message Edited by ArdenStarmariner on 03-28-2005 10:20 AM
Arden, that is totally crap for you to say that. First, you know that here on the DE boards we are better then that, we talk about things don't insult each other, it's not like you are knew here man.
Second, God knows Drashk and I disagree a lot, heck, we hardly ever agree, that doesn't mean that him or I are wrong or taking the Devs side. On the CU forums, Drashk argues just as much for balance as anybody else.
Right now the game is in sad shape for a few reasons, there needs to be change. Change sometimes hurts.
Alot of the reason why DE is on its deathbed right now has to do with the DEV's listening to a few select people here on this forum who bend over backwards to scratch their ears for them and tell them what they want to hear under the guise of representing the community. In short, they spent to much time listening to the suckups that help them justify what they've already made up their minds to do before they even came here to ask for "discussion".
JavelinCatcher wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
I know that this is rough on combat dabblers or Hybrids, but overall it will be better for the game.
Take no offense at this, but it seems to me that paying for multiple accounts in order to avoid having to "only dabble in combat" or "hybrid" your character makes it much easierfor you to say that.
Point taken. However, I also want to go on record to say that I never "intended" to have this many accounts. I inherited my 2 brothers and my wives, that is why I have so many.
I don't know about some of you others, but this isn't my first MMRPG. Most games give you multiple character slots, not just one. This allows you to basically do every style of play. Melee, Ranged, Crafter, or Entertainer. The problem with this is that such a system would totally not work in SWG. Well it could, but us DE's would be out of business. What happens in games like that is everybody has either their own crafters, or friends with them. Why buy it when you can make it yourself. Eventually there literally is no market for crafted items.
SWG did it different, they HAD too, or a player economy would never have worked. You get one character per server, unless you unlock your Jedi. Even that extra character for Jedi has economic impact, because many of them go crafters.
Even with my many characters, I still have choices, I want a Smuggler, or BH, but I just can't do it. I'm attached to each of my toons, even though I have so many, so I do feel your pain of not wanting to change your toons. Seriously.
All of you already knew that the CU was going to be changing things, anybody can see that current toons are to strong, so you should have expected your power level to be dropping to begin with. It doesn't really matter if it drops from less boxes, not being a master, nerfed armor, or what. After the CU people will be different.
If you are just worried about Harvester runs and such, my DE does most of hers solo and doesn't have any combat at all. It can be done. I also have friends I can call, and the ability to log in another toon though.
I think people just need to wait and see how it pans out and not jump to conclusions.
The recent patch can be considered a nerf on the master merchants. The merchant profession skill point cost could be lowered, just as they did for the image designer profession.
Jenden wrote:
Arden, its not a matter of bending over or sucking up, its a matter of being diplomatic. Angry mobs don't get you anywhere, developing well thought out proposals and prioritizing issues does. Yes, we could all sit here ranting and raving, and in return have even less of a chance of getting attention from the devs since they don't want to deal with that kind of atmosphere. Or, we could work constructively, and be much more likely to get some love in the post CU fixes/revamps.
Considering were we are at now, I'd say being diplomatic has gotten us nowhere. But you go right ahead being "diplomatic". Be sure to keep lots of fresh wipes handy.
I've given up hope of things getting better and figured I'd just live with DE as it is. And that's dispite the comments I get from people on Eclipse like, "OMG! Droid Engineers do exist!" But now I get the word that its gonna become even harder to continue being a DE. Well, that will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
Message Edited by ArdenStarmariner on 03-28-2005 12:11 PM
Straker_Atrella wrote:I think the best solution is fixing the Merchant class, not making it cheaper, but fixing it.Give Merchants a way to put other people on admin for their vendors, they get a % cut of items sold, this is variable. Approved sellers drop their stuff off.This would let people have more skills points, because they could use actual Merchants to sell their stuff.
I know many merchants have been asking for some kind of secure consignment system, and I think increasing the strength of the merchant profession in general (especially by adding something like this) would go a long way towards stabilizing the economy again.
Jenden wrote:
First, not having master artisan can be pretty easily worked around. I know it takes me at most 5-10 minutes to find someone to make me schematics for my GP/MM modules. Its not as convenient, but it saves 48 skillpoints, so there is a valuable tradeoff there.
With all due respect, Jenden, working around the MA requirements is not as easy as you continually espouse. Despite the fact that you have a good working arrangement, it doesn't work that way for most DEs. Given that MA components are required for nearly every final build product we make, you either need to be a MA yourself or be a very low-volume DE that can make 249 adv. droid brains last forever.
I don't really get into combat, so I don't really care too much about the skill points myself. I do feel, though, that it is a slight mischaracterization to be telling DEs that not having MA is a minor inconvenience that can easily be worked around.
