Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droid Pricing, sort of a guide.
I have a question, and perhaps this is the newbie in me, please excuse if it is. When I look at prices ranging from 25k to 80k I am forced to ask what about the new players? As I was coming up in DE through Master Artisan I could have really used a droid on several occasions, but as you all should know an Artisan in training doesn’t make any cash.
Now some may point out that missions are available and if you want to droid save the cash, but if you’re an Artisan in training and you are focusing there first you can only get crafting and/or combat mission worth 2k. That is 12 missions on the low end and 40 on the high for a droid.
My only wonder is does anyone else give any consideration to these newer players. Some of which don’t even know the value of a droid. I have found this vast untapped market of new and few month old players that, after an explanation of what a droid can do for them, are willing to buy, but a 25k price tag would send them packing. Add to this a critical flaw for new DE’s on a server. How can I charge 10k per module when I can only make lvl 3 modules and standard R2’s? Why would a player buy my droid when he/she can go to a Master DE and pay the same amount for a better droid. A DE in training is almost forced to price lower, which people on these forums suggest hurts all DE’s.
Typheon
Novice DE, Flurry
typheon wrote:
Greetings all…
I have a question, and perhaps this is the newbie in me, please excuse if it is. When I look at prices ranging from 25k to 80k I am forced to ask what about the new players? As I was coming up in DE through Master Artisan I could have really used a droid on several occasions, but as you all should know an Artisan in training doesn’t make any cash.
Now some may point out that missions are available and if you want to droid save the cash, but if you’re an Artisan in training and you are focusing there first you can only get crafting and/or combat mission worth 2k. That is 12 missions on the low end and 40 on the high for a droid.
My only wonder is does anyone else give any consideration to these newer players. Some of which don’t even know the value of a droid. I have found this vast untapped market of new and few month old players that, after an explanation of what a droid can do for them, are willing to buy, but a 25k price tag would send them packing. Add to this a critical flaw for new DE’s on a server. How can I charge 10k per module when I can only make lvl 3 modules and standard R2’s? Why would a player buy my droid when he/she can go to a Master DE and pay the same amount for a better droid. A DE in training is almost forced to price lower, which people on these forums suggest hurts all DE’s.
Typheon
Novice DE, Flurry
Well you also need to consider that new player doesn't really NEED the droid. At lower level crafting, public crafting stations are fine. They are not going to be selling buffs outside the starport, they can go to a med center if they needto heal their wounds. The true benefits of a droids kick in later. The only exception is a Combat droid, which is why I sell 25k DZ70 beginer combat droids.
People need something to play for, to work towards. If they buy a maxed med droid for 10k their second day in the game, why will they buy another one? My friend has been playing for 4 days, has made about 1 million from missions, found a gong adhesive which will sell for 2-3 million, plus 5 force crystals. Money is out there.
Now my pricing is for the master level maxed modules. Obviously, if your only making smaller stuff, your prices should be less. The key thing is to be CLEAR that your droid isn't the best. Especially if your working a newbie market. You don't want to sell somebody a droid, telling them it's uber. Then have them think that's all droids can be. Sell them that, tell them to come see you later, when they have more money and when you can make better ones. You didn't just make a customer, you made a friend.
I just got master DE a month or so ago, I've ground out quite a few R3s and probots in that time. I too have been using the pricing gude on www.undeadfish.com, and I'd slice like 10% off the top. (even though my combat modules are rated quite well).
I recently jumped up my prices, as it's getting quite difficult for me to find decent OQ and CD resources on Flurry. I sell to members of my guild at a greatly reduced rate, but I would expect anyone to do the same.
The only thing I worry about is being undersold by all the little peons out there who sell their MSE droids with crafting capabilites on the bazaar for 2000 credits.
Kleston wrote:
I've not looked into the DENet in a while, but I'm wondering if maybe it should be looked into and beefed up? Take control of DE's on every server. Start getting a standard pricing guide, for novices and masters. Who's with me on re-vamping the whole system on our end?
I'm all for the DENet, the problem is you will always have people who just don't care. They only wantto sell their droids and don't see that they are actually losing money. If 20 DE's are going along with the flow, yet 2 don't, it doesn't work well.
I am one of those who did and still do undercut the prices on Tatooine/Naritus (compared to the prices mentioned in the initial post and the ones of established DEs). I love swg for two reasons: I can make droids and it has an economic system in which the prices follow supply and demand - it is a laboratory for economics.
My prices are based on the amount of resources needed only. I apply a static multiplier to calculate the final price. I dont think this is good because it doesnt consider the complexity of crafting the droid (with how many parts I have to fiddle etc.)
Why do I undercut prices? For two reasons: my droids cant compete yet with the "Master Pieces" (the Combat Rating of the Combat Modules is 92, HAM is around 85% of the maximum) and I have to establish a costumer base.
I have a "2nd Choice" line of droids which are even weaker (with modules from failed experimentation etc). Noobs love them. They are cheap and the customers will return once they have the money to buy the "real thing". (I *always* explain why they are cheap.)
I craft simple droids for Noobs, too, like my "Wasp": a DZ70 Advanced with 2 Combat Modules. It allows not so wealthy customers to try out a combat droid and decide if it is any help to them.
Once I am able to get excellent resources, I will introduce yet another line called "Master's Choice" or something similar. These droids will be expensive; along the line suggested.
The key point, IMHO, is transparency: why is a droid with 100 Combat Rating modules so much more expensive then those with 92 Combat Rating? Customers will understand once you explain it to them.
As a Capitalist Pig I do not understand the concept of a "fair price": it doesnt matter whether a medic reaches the Return of Investment after 3,4,6 or even 10 buffs. As a Player Economicus he/she just wants the droid as cheap as possible and I try to be one of those DEs he/she will consider buying from.
By trying to establish "fair prices" which take into account how much profit the customer can make with them (or by establishing an oligopol through DEnet), we try to compensate for something the game mechanics lack: a decay system for droids. "Fair prices" will always be artificial and never work.
Once the flow of new players stops, we are doomed - "fair prices" or not. What we need are droids that decay. Then we can compete on quality and prices and have captitalist fun benefitting from a constant demand like the Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths do.
wotz wrote:
Excellent post.
I am one of those who did and still do undercut the prices on Tatooine/Naritus (compared to the prices mentioned in the initial post and the ones of established DEs). I love swg for two reasons: I can make droids and it has an economic system in which the prices follow supply and demand - it is a laboratory for economics.
My prices are based on the amount of resources needed only. I apply a static multiplier to calculate the final price. I dont think this is good because it doesnt consider the complexity of crafting the droid (with how many parts I have to fiddle etc.)
Why do I undercut prices? For two reasons: my droids cant compete yet with the "Master Pieces" (the Combat Rating of the Combat Modules is 92, HAM is around 85% of the maximum) and I have to establish a costumer base.
I have a "2nd Choice" line of droids which are even weaker (with modules from failed experimentation etc). Noobs love them. They are cheap and the customers will return once they have the money to buy the "real thing". (I *always* explain why they are cheap.)
I craft simple droids for Noobs, too, like my "Wasp": a DZ70 Advanced with 2 Combat Modules. It allows not so wealthy customers to try out a combat droid and decide if it is any help to them.
Once I am able to get excellent resources, I will introduce yet another line called "Master's Choice" or something similar. These droids will be expensive; along the line suggested.
The key point, IMHO, is transparency: why is a droid with 100 Combat Rating modules so much more expensive then those with 92 Combat Rating? Customers will understand once you explain it to them.
As a Capitalist Pig I do not understand the concept of a "fair price": it doesnt matter whether a medic reaches the Return of Investment after 3,4,6 or even 10 buffs. As a Player Economicus he/she just wants the droid as cheap as possible and I try to be one of those DEs he/she will consider buying from.
By trying to establish "fair prices" which take into account how much profit the customer can make with them (or by establishing an oligopol through DEnet), we try to compensate for something the game mechanics lack: a decay system for droids. "Fair prices" will always be artificial and never work.
Once the flow of new players stops, we are doomed - "fair prices" or not. What we need are droids that decay. Then we can compete on quality and prices and have captitalist fun benefitting from a constant demand like the Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths do.
I 100% agree with most of what you said. My prices were for maxed or droids as good as the server can make. Obviously, if droids are less then top of the line, they should be cheaper. The key is to make sure the customers know the droid is a bargain droid and can be better. I have met multiple people with a "droid sucks" attitude, who had just simply paid to much for a sub-par droid. People LOVE to upgrade, and have something to work towards, a goal.
When new players first start, they start with bone armor, or cheap composite. Weapons come from the Bazaar, or are looted, they work their way up to the top of the line equipment. Believe it or not, this is a large appeal for MMRPGS, the feeling of accomplishment. The problem with droids (along with decay,) is that effectivly we don't have any low-level stuff for med, crafting, storage. Well we do, but not in a realistic sense. Why buy a level 2 med droid for 500k, when you can buy a maxed one for 20k? The upgrade-ability of droids is very low, at least in our non-combatent versions.
Plus new players have more money then you may think. Pay 10k for buffs, run missions for 3 hours, even low level ones and you come up with quite a large amount. Less then a week ago, my friend started playing. I gave him 100k starter money (I know not everybody has this,) then he started playing. Now he has after loot sales and missions about 3 million, plus top of the line weapons and armor. Now obviously you can't expect this from everybody.
Another thing is that to a large part of the population, 10k, 20k, 30k, heck 100k isn't anything. Chump change even. Do you even look at how much you pay for tickets in a day? I actually did yesterday to see. 127k in just one day of jumping around. How about your vehicle repairs? Those 6k bills add up. Nobody even considers them. If people want a med droid, they will pay for it.
I understand about building a customer base, I really do. Yet cost isn't the way to do it.What happens when you have your customer base? Do you then raise your prices? People expect cheap prices now, you will lose customers. I'm not talking combat droids that can be made better, I'm talking our non-improving droids. To many many people a well stocked vendor, variety, and customer serve mean far more then cost. Provide those 3 things, then you never need to change prices, and you will have your customer base.
Undercutting prices is ok to some extent, depending on sales, resources, and game status, my prices slide up and down a little, 5k or maybe 10k. Yet selling top quality droids consistently for way less then market value is only hurting yourself.They would have paid more, to themthe money isn't much, yet to you, it adds up. Your vendor and service provide far more resales.
This sounds like an excuse to over price droids. Master level droids are not that much more powerful then lower level droids. This becomes painfully clear when the DZ70 droid does a good amount of damage to a master DE built probot. At best, in PVE a droid can hold its own only up to mid-level content. In PVP, generally a droid is toast in short order.
Yesterday, I had a quite typical customer: he said he wanted an R5 droid. Because the R5 had chem/food crafting station capabilities. It was clear that he hadnt understand yet that a chassis usually doesnt give the droid any capabilities. He turned out to be a first time droid user and he even hadnt understood yet what a chem/food crafting station does for him and what's the difference to his corresponding tool.
On the bottom line, it took me about 1 hour to explain everything about Crafting Stations, Crafting Tools, programming and naming droids, batteries, droid damage/wounds/vitality etc. I do not complain about this, this kind of complexity makes selling droids interesting, but that time must be considered for pricing, too, I begin to understand.
He went off with my "The Nurse" model with 110 med cap, 10 items storage, chem/food crafting station and auto-repair module and seemed to be quite happy. He wont come back due to the lack of a decay system for droids. But he might tell other ppl that my droids come with expert support
Do I have to mention that he accepted the price without hesitating a second?
So, the more I think about your initial post, Straker, the more I understand it. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
After some others reply on this I'll post my own thoughts on it.
Kleston wrote:
I do have one question for you guys to think about. This might have a major impact on who charges what for their droids.
What makes a great DE so great?
After some others reply on this I'll post my own thoughts on it.
Well in my opinion, the following is what makes a good DE.
1. He knows Droids. He knows their bugs, quirks, and bad and good points. When people ask him a question, he knows the answer.
2. He is honest. Being up front about what his droid can and cannot do, not trying to rip people off.
3. Customer support. Taking as long as is needed to explain naming or operating a droid.
4. Taking the time to put a good description of the droid on your vendor, sicne the deeds do not give good information.
5. Offering a wide variety of droids and supplies for people to choose from.
6. Selling droids at a price thatmakes the customer happy and feel they got their moneys worth.
Could probably go on a while. Basically customer service and pride in your work go a long way. Yet there is no reason you cannot turn a profit at the same time.