CUEmu - Thread Posts

Javac

Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:29 am

This sounds very similar to what I was thinking. The combat contained in one or two lines at most, and only small combat bonus at master, but lots of crafting bonuses. Keeps the 'pure crafter' happier that the dabblers won't overrun the market and gives SOE a skillpoint expenditure.

Calis Exud - Droid Engineer Extrodianre - Retired

TheRealTK421

Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:06 am

#15

Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:

<< a really well thought out and constructive plan >>

Sodan,

You know that I like what you put forward. Per my now long-dead DE Focus thread on the skill tree, I very much think that it's possible to 'tinker' with reshuffling it (especially if it's done right the first time and never need be done again).

However, to play devil's advocate a bit...

If the sort of plan that you put forth were possible (technically) or preferred (for whatever reason), don't you think the Devs would have put this forth right from the beginning?

By that I mean, if that would've worked and been something they could balance, I suspect they would have gone to this first. I am still pretty convinced that a hybrid profession would likely end up giving us less crafting and combat options in the short to medium term, not more. I guess they believe that, for balance sake, having a separate droid crafting profession (DE: chassis, modules, armor and so on) and droid combat profession (DC: ?????) was the only way that they could get what we had been asking for like.........hmmmmmmmmm..................forever.

Sure would be nice for someone red-named to step into ANY discussion we have and actually talk turkey. That is the exact kind of discussion we need.

Right now, I see us spinning our wheels in exactly the same fashion that we always have....

/bow

Respectfully,

TheRealTK421 a.k.a. "Doughbacca"

SWG DE Correspondent

Co-Founding member of Ahazi DENet & SWG DEA (Droid Engineer Association)

"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."

TheWoody

Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:09 am

#16

Of course,that is assumingthe Devs have had this all planned from the beginning, and are not just trying to glue things together in a vain hope to get a working profession.

Oop, gotta edit it to add in the lighthearted smiley....

Message Edited by TheWoody on 03-05-2004 09:10 AM

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never in the field of forum posting has so much bollocks been said to so many by so few"

Sodan-droiddreamer

Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:18 am

#17

Made a new thread:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=68465

Lets rally 'round this one. Vote for it id you like the proposal. Worry about what the devs might or might not do later. The important thing is to demonstrate consuses or lack of consensus.

Sodan Droiddreamer (GEGN)
Sodan's Exotic Droidgarten - In Bohemian Grove (Geigen Shuttle), Tatooine (6156 7275)

Shian_Tavkin

Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:21 am

#18

TheRealTK421 wrote:

Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:

<< a really well thought out and constructive plan >>

Sodan,

You know that I like what you put forward. Per my now long-dead DE Focus thread on the skill tree, I very much think that it's possible to 'tinker' with reshuffling it (especially if it's done right the first time and never need be done again).

However, to play devil's advocate a bit...

If the sort of plan that you put forth were possible (technically) or preferred (for whatever reason), don't you think the Devs would have put this forth right from the beginning?

By that I mean, if that would've worked and been something they could balance, I suspect they would have gone to this first. I am still pretty convinced that a hybrid profession would likely end up giving us less crafting and combat options in the short to medium term, not more. I guess they believe that, for balance sake, having a separate droid crafting profession (DE: chassis, modules, armor and so on) and droid combat profession (DC: ?????) was the only way that they could get what we had been asking for like.........hmmmmmmmmm..................forever.

Sure would be nice for someone red-named to step into ANY discussion we have and actually talk turkey. That is the exact kind of discussion we need.

Right now, I see us spinning our wheels in exactly the same fashion that we always have....

/bow

Respectfully,

It is my belief that the Devs would have gone the Hybrid route in the beginning..I think that was the original plan..just not fully implemented by time of release.

As someone elwhere noted, the Holocron says something about DE being able to craft a variety of useful and deadly droids.

The DC idea was only born because of the fiasco in asking about our wishes on the 'crafter only' front.

So, inasmuch as the Devs ever 'put forward' anything *cough*, I do believe this is what they would have put forward, were it not for the confused state of communication.

My 2c

Shian -- Master Droid Engineer/ Master Artisan

Shian_Tavkin

Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:24 am

#19

/agree Sodan

Sorry I was typing when you posted.

Yes, the other thread should be used, and nevermind what might or might not have been.

/apologies

Shian -- Master Droid Engineer/ Master Artisan

Sodan-droiddreamer

Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:25 am

#20

No need for apologies. I agree with what you said completely.

Sodan Droiddreamer (GEGN)
Sodan's Exotic Droidgarten - In Bohemian Grove (Geigen Shuttle), Tatooine (6156 7275)

progman63

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:37 am

#21

Woody, I agree wholeheartedly that any attacks on mods, corrs, or devs is totally unacceptable.

You want a solution for this problem?

Delete any posts that resort tosuch childish behavior no matter what other points the post contains, good or bad.

PERIOD!

People who have their posts deleted due to this behavior can cry about being censured all they want.

Then they can straighten up, shut up, or leave.

Whatever their personal decision is to deal with this policy, the forum will be a better place for it.

The main problem with "agree(ing) to accept the decisions of the community as a whole" is pointed out in one of the choices of the very next point you posted about voting -"keep the the current utility that is planned and get some medium combat droids in the DE profession trees, turning this into a hybrid profession."

These are two (actually more than two) distinctly different and seperate issues. Grouping them together, plus interjecting your own opinion (I take it you don't want a DC profession) if this had been one of those numerous voting threads that like to pop up, would have invalidated any results we would have tried to collect or quote at the devs.

This became an especially problematic issue during the heavy discussion in the droid ID threads.

People would postnumerous polls in the DE forum where the choices were such a mixed and muddled combination of all the issues that needed to be discussed that they were complete and utter nonsense. Then after only a day or two they would take the results back to the ID threads and state that "87% of 'the community' is against this issue".

Despite the fact that many people weren't even keeping up on all the noise in the DE forum at that time because we were focusing on the ID forum - where we should have been holding discussions on the topics at hand. So any of those polls weren'treally representative of 'the community' even taking into account that there are many DE that don't participate in the forums. But that's another issue.

When any actual 'consensus' thread in the DE forum should have been discussing say five issues a, b, c, d ,e seperately so that we could have legitametly gone back to th ID threads and stated "DE are against 'a' and 'b',for 'c' and 'e', and have no opinion on 'd'. ", any 'consensus' thread I ever saw mixed those five issues together in bizarre, haphazard and biased ways - "Are you for a, b and e? Or a, c and e? Or b, d and e?"......"See? 'The community' is against a, b, c, d and e!"

No, the community was against 'e', but ALL of the choices had 'e' included in them. So your little poll was useless from the onset.

I guarantee that if you mention "hybrid profession" in any choice in any poll you try to take you will get mixed and invalid responses because the very term is unclear.

Many people will vote yes because they want to both make and use combat droids (without spending any more SP).

And many people will vote no because if combat droids are added to the DE skill tree, no one will buy them - only DE will make them, and only DE will be able to use them. There will be no sales for these combat droids.

You can see how interjecting your own opinion into a poll instead of simply stating the issues and asking for a straight vote skews the poll and makes it unreliable as an indication of the DE community as a whole.

If you want to avoid problems such as these, and gather a true consensus, do not mix seperate issues together.

a) demand double the amount of utility modules they are promising for publish 8

b) keep the current utility that is planned and get some medium combat droids introduced

(regardless of how they are introduced)

c) continue complainingas we are wont to do

The whole cert/DC/hybrid mess has already been beaten to death both here in the DE forum and in the ID forum.

The devs have decided what they are going to do after monitoring the ID threads. And confusing this issue with what we plan to do as we go forward, we really will lose coherency.

I know many DE that refuse or don't even bother to take part in such muddled polls.

And disagree with any consensus that is reached using them.

Keep it clean, gather a real consensus, and then together we can let our unified voices be heard.

"When Sony and Lucas set out, we said, How can we do this and not make another EQ? We didn't want it to be all about Luke, or combat, or lock our players into a class. So we created a system that would allow players to switch professions during the game, and there would be a lot of gameplay around making that change. If you want to go from architect to scout we've created a system to make that happen."
Julio Torres

EricTheGreat

Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:17 am

#22

TheRealTK421 wrote:

Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:

<< a really well thought out and constructive plan >>

If the sort of plan that you put forth were possible (technically) or preferred (for whatever reason), don't you think the Devs would have put this forth right from the beginning?

By that I mean, if that would've worked and been something they could balance, I suspect they would have gone to this first. I am still pretty convinced that a hybrid profession would likely end up giving us less crafting and combat options in the short to medium term, not more. I guess they believe that, for balance sake, having a separate droid crafting profession (DE: chassis, modules, armor and so on) and droid combat profession (DC: ?????) was the only way that they could get what we had been asking for like.........hmmmmmmmmm..................forever.

This is assuming they actually thought of it this way. A long, long time ago SIntrosi thought they were taking us to the "(CH + BE + DROIDS) - Organic Pets = New DE," more of a true hybrid profession than a dabbling of skills Sodan has proposed. So all I'd like to see is someone with a red name say yes or no.

All we need is someone with some influence to push them *cough* TK *cough*

Lighthearted Smiley here

Kenner Aldric

~Deviancy At Its Best~

BH/Pistoleer Cowboy Extrodinaire, Recovering Old Timer MDE Spice Addict

R0ZM4N

Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:37 pm

#23

/applauds

/agrees

/signs on dotted line for new forum rules

...From the desk of Colonel Cass L'Arcana...
Imperial Armed Forces | Distinction & Honour

Aobir

Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:49 pm

#24

My problem with your plan, Sodan, is that it feels messy. If people are supposed to get 0040 in Droid Engineer, how are they supposed to get there? Grinding MSE Droids? Going down the Droid Engineer path was bad enough to get those first two levels with just the MSE droids, and I shudder to think of what it would be like to scrape up the experience to get enough for Master Droid Refinement with only those beeping creatures.

Personally, I still like Drashk's old compromise:Droid Commander as a mini-class along with Master Droid Engineers using some better droids, and the combination of the two allowing the best droids. I see the Droid Commander as beinga class similar to the Squad Leader: being a combat class that doesn't actually force you to fight. Perhaps as a solution to the dilemma of Ranged Support prerequisite being unfair to melee classes, have it be available to all classes but needing experience, akin to a Politician? Balancing would perhaps force it to require more skill points, but it would still mean that creatures are more of an "exotic" weapon than the easier-to-use droids.

Is this idea out of favor currently, TK, and what are the devs currently leaning/working towards?

Aobir Baorock
Proprieter, Baorock Droids & Resources
Columnist, Tempest News Network (swgtn.com)

EricTheGreat

Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:53 pm

#25

TheRealTK421 wrote:

If the sort of plan that you put forth were possible (technically) or preferred (for whatever reason), don't you think the Devs would have put this forth right from the beginning?

TK, you are assuming the devs are omniscient, and they arent, else why would they ever want feedback? They dont think of everything, which is why we tell stuff to them. This reasoning doesnt pan out.

Kenner Aldric

~Deviancy At Its Best~

BH/Pistoleer Cowboy Extrodinaire, Recovering Old Timer MDE Spice Addict

Slip3Kid

Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:32 am

#26

TheWoody wrote:

I said a few weeks ago that we should prepare for this. Told everyone that we were going to have to demand more than they were handing out to us. Now, I think, would be the best time to rekindle the plan.

It may soon be time to lean on the Devs once again, and to do the population will need a clear consise voice. Therefore, here's my proposal.

Here is my plan for after publish 8. Combat Medic/Fencer

If I win your auction you can contact Walleyedai or Slipkid In-Game, or drop the goods at the "Ship Chassis" vendor at the cords listed below.
Walleyedai Weedbedai Master Shipwright/Fencer
Slipkid Master TKA/Fencer/Swordsman
AnchorHead Southpoint Mall
Tat -153 / -5670

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