Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droid crafters union.
I'm very much opposed to unions in general. They take money from the people doing the real work and funnel them into whatever cause the leaders wish to support. If everyone wants to support a certain cause, then you don't need a union to do it. Certainly no cause in SWG is going to require credits to further. Thus, dues would only serve to line the pockets of the leaders.
As far as the price fixing, you need to learn how to run a business. Prices are set based on two variables: 1) How many customers will I get when I price my product at various levels, and 2) How much profit will I gain, per sale, when I price my product at various levels. Certainly number 1 will vary per person depending on location and marketting skills. Number 2 will vary depending on how resources are acquired. Neither of these can, nor should, be dictated by some large organization.
-Raystonn
First you sound like you really don't want a union, you want a guild...or I don't know what you would call it to enforce price fixing.
Unions were created to prevent the exploitation of workers by management, what you're proposing does not do that.
I am in a union in real life and absolutely HATE it (/looks around to make sure noone is nearby to break his knees), its a requirment for my job.
I see the worst parts of the union, the one we have is really bad. Instead of trying to protect the workers it spends more time trying to screw over the company. I can see the same thing happening in the game through price fixing. They try to tell me how to think...sending me letters telling me who I should vote for in elections, I promptly wad those up and throw them away unopened...
and I echo what others said....where would these union dues go ? And, I'll be damned if anyone is getting a portion of my profit, I make little enough as it is...
oops...got a little ranty there...I just don't want something I dislike so much in real life sneaking in game.
-----Quote-----
1) I'm staunchly opposed to unions in general
2) I'm even more opposed to a union for the purpose you state (price fixing)
3) What does the 1000cr per week go to pay for? Whose pockets are lined?
4) How will a "union" fix price gouging?
5) I think the free market will force prices to where they should be (and that changes from day to day)
-----End-----
I agree. Unions are a barbarous relic of a stone-age past.
Xaldain_ wrote:
1) Why?
2) That's not the purpose, only a side-effect. The "purpose" is to build a community of DEs that share a common viewpoint on: pricing, stock, bugs, mentor/apprenticeship, communication.
3) You haven't read all my posts if you've asked this question.
4) Set prices by a substantial group of engineers (more than 1 or 2 planets) will force the competition to lower their prices to our levels, or suffer loss in sales. Believe it or not, there ARE customers that shop around for the best prices.
5) Month to month, probably, week to week, maybe, day to day? No. The market on each server has stabilized to a point where each and every one of us can quote an "average" cost for a unit of resource.
The price for all items is based upon the effort/resources that go into the crafting of that item, bar none.
Resource price determines a minimum cost to manufacture the item, effort involved adds a "soft" component to the mix, and a standard markup % would allow the players to turn a profit.
-X-
1) Droid-Creator made the points for me on this one. Unions, in RL, are at a point where they've outlived their usefulness. They aren't about better conditions for employees. They're about trying to screw over companies that they think evidently have unlimited sources of money. But that's a whole discussion for another day.
2) Not the purpose? You expressly stated it as a core purpose. In fact, after you say its not the "purpose" only a "side-effect", you go on, in the same sentence no-less, and say "..share a common viewpoint on: pricing..."
3) Perhaps I haven't read ALL your posts. I did read the post where you outlined your idea for a union and presented the fact that you wanted to collect money. In that post I saw nothing that explained where that money is going. Don't get defensive, just answer the question for me.
4) Ah, so price-fixing. Although, I didn't think that was the purpose of the union. I'm a pure capitalist through and through. To a fault almost. I'm against price-fixing no matter what you call it or whatever package you try and put it in.
5) Resources change from day to day. Lack of resource create demand. Demand raises prices. The reverse is true as well.
The price for all items is based upon the effort/resources that go into the crafting of that item, bar none.
Not quite. Availability is more important than effort.
Anyway, I applaud your effort to help the DE community and I don't want to seem like I'm attacking you for that. I just think unions and price-fixing isn't the way to go.
unlike some of my fellow DE I am neither staunchly opposed nor for unions, I just dont feel they work. The primary reasons for unions in the US were to protect workers from unfair labor practices and since the DE is the management that is kind of up to the DE themselves.
I think you want a professional association such as many professions have today. To that respect I would say it would be nice to have someone or two on each server that would hold DE meetings and allow for discussion of DE problems, pricing, sales, resource locations, etc....
Bon Joros
Ok, well let's hear some ideas regarding how we can get these bugs investigated thoroughly, accurately, and consistently. That's core. Nothing else.
-X-
Xaldain_ wrote:
*wipes the charcoal off his clothes*
Ok, well let's hear some ideas regarding how we can get these bugs investigated thoroughly, accurately, and consistently. That's core. Nothing else.
-X-
Do you mean investigated by the players to be submitted to the devs? I think you'll honestly have problems with that since, as far as anyone can tell, the devs don't listen to anything we say.
Gorath put together a great summary of issues, problems and concerns. Best I can tell it was recieved with a "thanks" and then promptly ignored. Once the dev's interest turns to droids, we can bombard them with all this information. As it stands now, unless the issue needs to be fixed for the Creature Handlers, we're on our own. I honestly hope they get to us in the next 2-3 months.
I also presume that while we are testing bugs, we will identify more issues that need to be addressed. It would surprise me if this is not the case.
-X-
Another Post.
I think we should also have a master union leader on this message bord.
Yeah, that would be great. We should give them a cool title, too. Maybe like "correspondent" or something.
Xaldain_ wrote:
I am tossing around the idea of forming a DE union.
Each server would have two union officials who dictate standard pricing for all droids, provide training and resources to novice DEs, and assist in coordinating the direction of the union in general. All members of the union, including the officials, would pay a fee to the union to support bug-investigation efforts and union maintenance fees (harvesters, etc.)
My thoughts are that the fee should be:
1000cr per week
+ 5% of the gross price of all sales.
( 5000cr droid = 250cr to union )
We would appoint a union leader (not me, as it could be a conflict of interest) who would work closely with the current correspondent on issues, assign tasks to officials including specific bug-investigation issues, and maintain a seperate budget for each of the servers union branches.
This would bring the DE community together, prevent price gouging by rogue DEs, and give the player base some assurance that their purchases are backed up by a union guarantee.
(I realize that no matter what the "set" pricing scheme, people will always undercut our prices, however I think people will be willing to pay a higher price for the security of purchasing from a larger establishment of engineers)
If you would be interested in joining this union, please respond to this thread, with:
Server
Planet
Closest city
In-game character name
DE skill levels
Whether or not you would be interested in an officer position
Any other information you think might be beneficial to the union.
Please note that this is not an actual application to join the union, as it does not (and may not ever, depending on response in this thread) exist yet.
"Each server would have two union officials who dictate standard pricing for all droids"
Pricing fixing and the like is illegal IRL and makes me sick that you would do that here. I hope most people thumb their noses to your plan.
Every crafter out there is trying to make money off the backs of the combatants, which are the working poor. We only make money just to turn it over to some crafter so that we can continue to make money.
Instead of charging us unbelievable prices, why not try to make the prices for the resources lower. Every week the devs make life on the combatant AND crafters harder, why would we follow suit? Pretty soon no one but a crafter will be able to afford your prices, then you will be out of money as well.
Make a resource union or co-op, that way you get resources at the cost of the mining, and not lining someones pocket with our monies.
Where does it stop?