Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Please call off the entire combat module thing
/bow
SkyeDarkangel wrote:
So after all this I guess I have 2 "thoughts" if I keep it in the "positive" line that the Dev's seem so fond of. (Giving them the benefit of the doubt.)
1. I'm guessing our Combat ability is so worthless because we said we didn't want combat abilities.
To be, perhaps, a bit more correct...we don't have 'worthwhile' (a relative term) combat abilities because we put the brakes on them CL10+ combat droids.
This is just their way ot making several chassis, like the Probot, purposeful. As well as making R2 cut things.
It feel like we're a pseudo-BE to me (from testing P7 on TC), with regard to building combat pets. The difference is, cause DH/DC and the >CL10 droids aren't coming, that we can't make the higher-end stuff.
The BEs can craft the higher-end pets for MCHs to use. We just don't have anything like that yet...that is the issue we face collectively.
In my honest opinion, that's what P7 feels like to me, so far.
So if we assume our TRUE abilities come out in Publish 8 (utility abilities) then we can safely say these combat changes are valid and balanced.
No. No release of any new system like the one we're seeing is never balanced right upon release.
The coming combat/HAM 'pass' may, indeed, help to put that all into a better place. What will be getting soon might feel a lot better after that is over.
2. Are we really going to get utility?
Currently our utility is pretty limited and a single purchase requires no repurchases after any amount of time.
I have to say that I personally get repeat business (from select clients). Others, I suspect I don't see repeats cause they are people that have moved on from SWG altogether.
So we need enough utility that no one can have ALL the abilities we can offer with their limit on droids, OR we need to make them decay or such.
More profession-specific modules (above and beyond what is there for P8), plus a better balanced decay system are on my personal 'table' for things to work on. I think that it fits with what I've seen on the board and what the Devs are interested in doing.
Of course....>CL10 combat 'answer' is my top longer-term thing to focus on (with the help of all of you).
Are we going to get real utility? I've seen, read, reread, consulted, asked, complained, etc, about each and everyone one of those utilities. I can see a good use for 3 of them, and the 4th (Entertainer) isn't awful. But it's not even CLOSE to enough.
How could it ever be? We're the hard-to-please, nose-to-the-grindstone DEs!!?! You don't think we'd settle, do ya?
Are the Dev's going to be adding more module, with or without the input of DE's, or is that basically all they're adding. (And I don't mean they have one more module they're waffling around on.)
Right now, I'm not seeing anything definitive on P8. I think they want to focus on the here and now. Next week, I'm sure that I'll be doing damage control on P7 and starting to look at P8 info. But that's a guess...it might be later (like early next week). /shrug
If we're getting more utility, and especially if they're going to work with us on some ideas, then I can happily say this combat update is fair. It just gives us a small ability to add to our droids. (Sort of how a BE can make CL10 pets, which are basically worthless once a player learns the SWG system)
Well...keep in mind, our current 'service' markets (Medics, crafting, etc.) will still be there. The pain we will feel on the combat-role market is what is going to hurt for awhile.
Right now, the combat revamp thing they keep pointing to is likely going to play a role in how these changes feel down the line. And..then, we have yet to see how >CL10 droids will play out, obviously. Those are, I think most DEs would agree, somewhere in our future.
Keep in mind that we WERE going to Combat, but the uprising made the Dev's re-evaluate us as "utility" people instead.
I think it finally got themto see us as both, to be honest. They seem to be more mindfultohow they can help us to 'service' all other player professions, including combat roles. I'm not that's fully been the case in the past.
If we're really going to be utility instead of combat, this could be considered just a bonus ability to give our class some spice.
I see us having a healthy smattering of both, in the long term. There are quite a few examples for the Devs to see that there are two primary DE 'camps'. The non-combat minded and the combat minded (present P7 situation aside, that was a general statement, all. Yes, the armor thing bites.)
I don't think we've ever had a CLEAR reponse as to whether those 4 module are all they're giving us.
No, we haven't.
Understandably they don't want to discuss it yet, since they haven't finished with Publish 7 and it's abilities. But a clear-cut answer "Thats what you get, shut up already" or "Thats just our current starting plan, we'd like to expand a bit on those abilities and others" would be VERY much appreciated and, I think, solve a lot of the flaming and negative comments about the combat changes.
From what I've heard, they would probably want to state the latter. But, at the same time, I think that they also see a lot of division and such in the DE community on the boards. Like WE don't know what we want. Woody's call to build a unified voice is really more important than you all realize, everyone.
For the Devs part, I've always wanted them to come and help us to build, tweak, temper and perfect the "plan"...but they don't really (due to understandable time restrictions and, more importantly, the negativity of the DE boards). I have seen other Corrs. state that they have seen/heard that the DE boards are among the most negative on the forums right now.
With regard to getting down and pulling up our shirts with the red-names, it really works against us. I didn't use to see it the same way I do now (but don't think that doesn't mean I haven't lost my fire).
We didn't want Combat, so they're not giving us combat.
They tried to...we voted it off the island (for now).
We want Utility, but that question remains unanswered.
They have a good list already of profession utility modules we've suggested. Sometimes, the problem isn't that an idea isn't really good (and fun and so on) but that's not as attractive given time/schedule issues. They really do have other players to make happy. Yes, we've waited...but all SWG players suffer with tons of things.
Giving them ideas that are:
fun, not overly yucky to implement, logical, marketable, balancable and especially technologically feasible is really key.
They always want utility module ideas...but we can't have 1000 zany things come out of the wood work. They have to make sense and such.
I see the Merchant droid showing quite a bit of promise...depending on how it's implemented. That's something that will make many peoples lives much easier and better, I suspect, including mine.
Respectfully,
Well fine, but find some other class to nerf!!!!!!!
lastebill wrote:
A nerf is not a permanent thing?
Well fine, but find some other class to nerf!!!!!!!
Commando, CH, weaponsmith, armorsmith, image designer. I don't care
BUT STAY THE .... AWAY FROM DE!
Just give it time mate. lets see what the droid invasion brings. And don't forget, there are always hotfixes to save the day.... eh... sometimes.
/bow
SkyeDarkangel wrote:
TheRealTK421 wrote:
/bow
SkyeDarkangel wrote:
I don't think we've ever had a CLEAR reponse as to whether those 4 module are all they're giving us.
No, we haven't.
Thats good and bad news then. Bad because we may be stuck with Exploding MSE's as our main product, and Good beacuse it means they may have expansive plans for the next round of Utility modules.
They will only every be able to consider utility modules that are 'doable' from their view. That includes being: fun, technologically feasible, not too time intensive to code, logical with other game systems/mechanics, etc. There are a lot of great ideas that, for various reasons, just aren't going to happen.
It's separating the wheat from the chaff that would serve us best, in that regard.
For the Devs part, I've always wanted them to come and help us to build, tweak, temper and perfect the "plan"...but they don't really (due to understandable time restrictions and, more importantly, the negativity of the DE boards). I have seen other Corrs. state that they have seen/heard that the DE boards are among the most negative on the forums right now.
Every time a "Red-name" posts, theres a shocked post followed by some questioning of what the person means, followed by a lot of angry comments and immediately jumped upon potential misinterpretations. I think the real work can only be done through the Correspondent, who's job it is to take the communities ideals and mix them with the Dev's abilities and limitations to hopefully create a working profession that everyone can enjoy. Waiting for them to come to us hasn't worked too well, we're all a bit high strung and any red tends to bring out another type of red...
Indeed. Well said.
With regard to getting down and pulling up our shirts with the red-names, it really works against us. I didn't use to see it the same way I do now (but don't think that doesn't mean I haven't lost my fire).
Poor TK, I've been in a similar situation where I thought I was totally powerless and was rebeling fairly angrily until I was put in a position to actually help out. Being in that position takes you out of the comforable "group think" that allows you to just let fly with your emotions and be comforted when many people agree or join your opinion.
Yup.
We didn't want Combat, so they're not giving us combat.
They tried to...we voted it off the island (for now).
Exactly.
This isn't, by the way, off the table. We just need to figure out how to best move forward. I don't think I'd be out of line by stating that there is still discussion internally on how to make >CL10 droids happen. They really DO want to make us happy...
We want Utility, but that question remains unanswered.
They have a good list already of profession utility modules we've suggested. Sometimes, the problem isn't that an idea isn't really good (and fun and so on) but that's not as attractive given time/schedule issues. They really do have other players to make happy. Yes, we've waited...but all SWG players suffer with tons of things.
There is a lot of truth to this, since the Dev's are somewhat hesitant to come to this forum (remember they're human too, and I imagine they get pretty angered seeing all the "Dev's you suck, go die, no more money for you!" and I'm fairly sure that it doesn't make them want to be helpful or carefully read our ideas) and so I wonder how much thought they've given to these ideas.
That's what Corrs are for, I guess.
Giving them ideas that are:
fun, not overly yucky to implement, logical, marketable, balancable and especially technologically feasible is really key.
It would be interesting to know what "yucky to implement" and "technologically feasible" mean in this case. Many of us shoot out ideas that SOUND good, but might be very hard to implement, while others we think are impossible might be a mere extension of another ability already finished.
That's a really hard thing to address. There's really no way that we could know what's hard or not. We just have to try to put up ideas that seem to best fit what we know of the game, what would be useful but workable, etc. A hard issue that is...
They always want utility module ideas...but we can't have 1000 zany things come out of the wood work. They have to make sense and such.
The current list still seems pretty solid, if we could get a "yes, because" or "no, because" I think we could seriously improve a lot of the "impossible" ideas into "not so impossible" ideas.
Indeed...I agree. I think that's part of what I'll be seeing in the next week or so. But that's pure conjecture, on my part.The module plans might well already be set.
I see the Merchant droid showing quite a bit of promise...depending on how it's implemented. That's something that will make many peoples lives much easier and better, I suspect, including mine.
It also has the potential to really screw things up! Spam anyone?
Yea....I'd have to think the Devs already have this in mind.
But I still stand by the statement that these are a great start, but we need some more fleshing out, especially in modules that either are VERY specific, or are VERY general.
Indeed. Mo' betta module ideas and proposal are the kinds of things they are after. However, I don't want to make anyone think we can add massively to the list of what will be added. Building a good working list (or two) to work from would really be best. An ongoing set of proposed items, say 5 or 6, just so we can whittle down the possibilities.
Respectfully,
You'll foget this someday... and I'll be watching!
It's pretty late for me...what were we talking about again?
Tiresome,
SkyeDarkangel wrote:
1. I'm guessing our Combat ability is so worthless because we said we didn't want combat abilities. This is just their way ot making several chassis, like the Probot, purposeful. As well as making R2 cut things.
So if we assume our TRUE abilities come out in Publish 8 (utility abilities) then we can safely say these combat changes are valid and balanced.
It's important to make a distinction here. "Our" combat abilities are so worthless because, like Armorsmith, Chef, and/or Weaponsmith we're not supposed to have combat abilities.
The combat abilities of the Droids we make are worthless because the Devs cannot figure out a good way to add >CL10 combat droids to the game that doesn't either upset Droid Engineers (a la Droid Handler) or upset their idea of thebalance of the game.
The distinction is important because anyone can use Droids, so their combat abilities are not an inherent feature of, or one that belongs solely to, the Droid Engineer profession.
All of that said, though, I am less and less convinced that even the Devs know how powerful a CL10 pet (whether droid or creature) is supposed to be. That is probably most obvious simply by looking at the CL system itself - it seems to me to be based more on the creature's HAM than anything else, so you end up with wildly different strengths of creatures that all have the same combat level.
2. Are we really going to get utility?
Currently our utility is pretty limited and a single purchase requires no repurchases after any amount of time. So we need enough utility that no one can have ALL the abilities we can offer with their limit on droids, OR we need to make them decay or such.
Many ideas for "charged" or "disposable" utility modules/droids have been put forth. The devs have shot them all down (or ignored them) without any real explanation. Especially since the one explanation we did receive - that Droids are not allowed to enhance skills or abilities - is both patently false (see Level 6 Medical module for counter-example) and unfair compared to other professions (see Chef, Smuggler, Armorsmith, Weaponsmith...).
Are we going to get real utility? I've seen, read, reread, consulted, asked, complained, etc, about each and everyone one of those utilities. I can see a good use for 3 of them, and the 4th (Entertainer) isn't awful. But it's not even CLOSE to enough.
Agreed. We need the kinds of utility droids that I summarized in the Concept Series a while back.
Are the Dev's going to be adding more module, with or without the input of DE's, or is that basically all they're adding. (And I don't mean they have one more module they're waffling around on.) If we're getting more utility, and especially if they're going to work with us on some ideas, then I can happily say this combat update is fair. It just gives us a small ability to add to our droids. (Sort of how a BE can make CL10 pets, which are basically worthless once a player learns the SWG system)
In order for patch 8 to bring DE around as much as the recent Chef update revived that profession, they're going to need to double the number of new utility modules being added. And they're going to need to add some real utility - stuff that players need while playing the game - rather than pure fluff. The Entertainer module is neat, but it is pure fluff. It needs to do something besides blow smoke up our asses.
Keep in mind that we WERE going to Combat, but the uprising made the Dev's re-evaluate us as "utility" people instead. If we're really going to be utility instead of combat, this could be considered just a bonus ability to give our class some spice.
I don't think we've ever had a CLEAR reponse as to whether those 4 module are all they're giving us. Understandably they don't want to discuss it yet, since they haven't finished with Publish 7 and it's abilities. But a clear-cut answer "Thats what you get, shut up already" or "Thats just our current starting plan, we'd like to expand a bit on those abilities and others" would be VERY much appreciated and, I think, solve a lot of the flaming and negative comments about the combat changes.
Yeah, but you're talking about SOE here. They don't know how to give a straight answer.
TheRealTK421 wrote:
I have seen other Corrs. state that they have seen/heard that the DE boards are among the most negative on the forums right now.
Tthe negativity of thethis board isa great indication of how unhappy DE players are about the profession. If we are not full of praise for the Dev Team and their minions, it's probably because relatively few DEs areremotely satisfiedwith the state of the profession. The Devs should worry more about resolving customer complains, and less about being popular.
/bow (in a positive way, of course)
Admit errors: Change the name of this publish into "combat balance pass" or whatever, to avoid further mockery of devoted DEs. "Droid invation" implies that you have done a good job on improving the DE proffession, witch you have NOT.
Secondly:
Add more droids to be build.
I don't even care if they are better than the current droids, but having opportunities is fun. Having nothing ain't.
Implement a droidekas that's as good as the probot, or an old lady bot with the functionality of a r5 bot.
ADD STUFF!
NERF LESS!
Warfish
TheRealTK421 wrote:
/bow
SkyeDarkangel wrote:
So after all this I guess I have 2 "thoughts" if I keep it in the "positive" line that the Dev's seem so fond of. (Giving them the benefit of the doubt.)
1. I'm guessing our Combat ability is so worthless because we said we didn't want combat abilities.
To be, perhaps, a bit more correct...we don't have 'worthwhile' (a relative term) combat abilities because we put the brakes on them CL10+ combat droids.
True enough. CL10 isn't "useless", but it's about as close as you can get short of a new player with CDEF. (Supposedly very close or equal/better than a Probot SHOULD be if truely CL10)
This is just their way ot making several chassis, like the Probot, purposeful. As well as making R2 cut things.
It feel like we're a pseudo-BE to me (from testing P7 on TC), with regard to building combat pets. The difference is, cause DH/DC and the >CL10 droids aren't coming, that we can't make the higher-end stuff.
The BEs can craft the higher-end pets for MCHs to use. We just don't have anything like that yet...that is the issue we face collectively.
In my honest opinion, that's what P7 feels like to me, so far.
Many BE's claim (sorry, I've never seen anyone use, buy, or for that matter SELL CL10 pets on Lowca) that CL10 pets are a solid market for them. In this way I can see our "pseudo-BE" abilities being given on the premise that we will sell them and CL10 Droids will be (if not common) seen around, and that it give our Profession another angle (not a primary one) to work from.
So if we assume our TRUE abilities come out in Publish 8 (utility abilities) then we can safely say these combat changes are valid and balanced.
No. No release of any new system like the one we're seeing is never balanced right upon release.
In the broad, mathematical sense. The changes are obviously skewed in several ways, thinsg always are when they're released to group of users who specialize in; finding ways to screw up the system, or finding ways to manipulate the system in ways it's not intended. And that doesn't even include normal bugs and problems that weren't apparent in testing.
The coming combat/HAM 'pass' may, indeed, help to put that all into a better place. What will be getting soon might feel a lot better after that is over.
I honestly think that while the armor nerf is a serious problem, it DOES put us in line with a regular CL10 pet. There are no real differences, sadly, except for the few abilities a CL10 pet gets, but for the most part the Probot and other droid will be as painfully useless as a regular CL10 pet.
2. Are we really going to get utility?
Currently our utility is pretty limited and a single purchase requires no repurchases after any amount of time.
I have to say that I personally get repeat business (from select clients). Others, I suspect I don't see repeats cause they are people that have moved on from SWG altogether.
I see some repeat business, but it's because Friend X knows Friend Y, who's looking for Droid Z. Friend X then points Friend Y (or buys for Friend Y) Droid Z. But once someone has an R3 with 4 crafting stations, medical module, and item storage module, I don't see them coming back unless they delete their droid or trade it off.
So we need enough utility that no one can have ALL the abilities we can offer with their limit on droids, OR we need to make them decay or such.
More profession-specific modules (above and beyond what is there for P8), plus a better balanced decay system are on my personal 'table' for things to work on. I think that it fits with what I've seen on the board and what the Devs are interested in doing.
It's my most sincere hope that your second sentence means the Corr. Boards have a few hints of the Dev's being interested in working with you/DE community for expansions on Publish 8.
Of course....>CL10 combat 'answer' is my top longer-term thing to focus on (with the help of all of you).
I'm rather fond of the solution's posted already about >CL10's, with the ability being placed in common trees or Master positions, etc. Since anyone at that level could use a droid I don't see much of an "imbalance" there. Although it is almost like giving a tree the free ability to use a "pet" and might cut into the "CH Territory"... but heck, they got Healing from the Medic's territory, then can share the love a bit.
Are we going to get real utility? I've seen, read, reread, consulted, asked, complained, etc, about each and everyone one of those utilities. I can see a good use for 3 of them, and the 4th (Entertainer) isn't awful. But it's not even CLOSE to enough.
How could it ever be? We're the hard-to-please, nose-to-the-grindstone DEs!!?! You don't think we'd settle, do ya?
I think the negativity on these forums has given us that image, and in some ways fairly so. DE's have been stomped so many times it's not even funny. However, while I think P8's current list is a good start, I think ANY profession going through a revamp with as little ability as ours deserves just a little bit more.
Are the Dev's going to be adding more module, with or without the input of DE's, or is that basically all they're adding. (And I don't mean they have one more module they're waffling around on.)
Right now, I'm not seeing anything definitive on P8. I think they want to focus on the here and now. Next week, I'm sure that I'll be doing damage control on P7 and starting to look at P8 info. But that's a guess...it might be later (like early next week). /shrug
I think the problem is we've been concentrating on P7 as "the beginning" when it's really just the balancing of the "first half" of the DE's abilities. Droids can either fight, be utilitarian, or be a mix. Mixes will likely be mostly useless due to the necessity of all Combat modules for anything resembling CL10 level, but it can be considered the "other half" of the DE's abilities.
By fixing our combat first, they open the ground to get to the REAL work with P8 on our utility side. P7 introduces some new parts they can use to make the new modules harder to craft and worthwhile, as well as some potential new code for adding new modules and module clusters into droids.
I guess I personally think we're worrying too much about a side of DE that we basically voted down anyway. I have a few CL10 pets (mounts mostly) and the HAM/damage rate pretty darn close to the current Probot's (TC current) abilities.
While the armor nerf is painful, it brings us in line with the rest of the CL10 world. No, it's not a pretty thought, but it's pretty darn true. Extra abilities of Pets (buffing, foods, etc) aren't necessarily grounds for a CL rating, as player abilities aren't judged based on how powerful than can be with Doctor buffs or Chef Brandy.
If we're getting more utility, and especially if they're going to work with us on some ideas, then I can happily say this combat update is fair. It just gives us a small ability to add to our droids. (Sort of how a BE can make CL10 pets, which are basically worthless once a player learns the SWG system)
Well...keep in mind, our current 'service' markets (Medics, crafting, etc.) will still be there. The pain we will feel on the combat-role market is what is going to hurt for awhile.
I see an expansion based completely on Repair kits. What little fighting I did with my current Probot was very limited due to being unable to heal it. It's still going to bite, but with it's current armor the Probot could easily take a plains tusk cat down by itself without healing. I believe that is way out of the range of what a CL10 pet should be able to do if it's healable.
Right now, the combat revamp thing they keep pointing to is likely going to play a role in how these changes feel down the line. And..then, we have yet to see how >CL10 droids will play out, obviously. Those are, I think most DEs would agree, somewhere in our future.
Sorry, I honestly thought we weren't going to see any of those, except perhaps the "Blastomech" *gag*. I wouldn't mind them even being CL10 as long as I could make the chassis personally. They just look bloody cool. I see this coming the next iteration of the DE's turn for attention.
Keep in mind that we WERE going to Combat, but the uprising made the Dev's re-evaluate us as "utility" people instead.
I think it finally got themto see us as both, to be honest. They seem to be more mindfultohow they can help us to 'service' all other player professions, including combat roles. I'm not that's fully been the case in the past.
Whatever combat part we will play is, I think, far down the road. Probably after they've visited many of the other broken professions and helped them a bit first.
If we're really going to be utility instead of combat, this could be considered just a bonus ability to give our class some spice.
I see us having a healthy smattering of both, in the long term. There are quite a few examples for the Devs to see that there are two primary DE 'camps'. The non-combat minded and the combat minded (present P7 situation aside, that was a general statement, all. Yes, the armor thing bites.)
The best alternative (personally) is the one that was recently spammed through PM's, etc, by Shain and Sodan. Droids are such a common item there's no reason everyone can't use a more powerful droid as they become more powerful themselves.
The armor thing does bite, but no matter how bad DE is they can't let us have a CL10 pet that isn't CL10. And that armor rating was way better than CL10. (No, I don't like it at all either)
I don't think we've ever had a CLEAR reponse as to whether those 4 module are all they're giving us.
No, we haven't.
Thats good and bad news then. Bad because we may be stuck with Exploding MSE's as our main product, and Good beacuse it means they may have expansive plans for the next round of Utility modules.
Understandably they don't want to discuss it yet, since they haven't finished with Publish 7 and it's abilities. But a clear-cut answer "Thats what you get, shut up already" or "Thats just our current starting plan, we'd like to expand a bit on those abilities and others" would be VERY much appreciated and, I think, solve a lot of the flaming and negative comments about the combat changes.
From what I've heard, they would probably want to state the latter. But, at the same time, I think that they also see a lot of division and such in the DE community on the boards. Like WE don't know what we want. Woody's call to build a unified voice is really more important than you all realize, everyone.
With Publish 7 so close and the starting of Publish 8 right behind it, perhaps it's time that the DE community DID come together and decide if we want to push useful and diverse modules for P8 (if possible) or try to push for some Hybrid (very unlikely due to time constraints, but if thats the consensus lets all go for it). I would imagine you have some plans to bring these issues to the light and get a clear response from the community. Hopefully we'll see some unification soon as P8 is going to be where the Dev's make DE or break DE.
For the Devs part, I've always wanted them to come and help us to build, tweak, temper and perfect the "plan"...but they don't really (due to understandable time restrictions and, more importantly, the negativity of the DE boards). I have seen other Corrs. state that they have seen/heard that the DE boards are among the most negative on the forums right now.
Every time a "Red-name" posts, theres a shocked post followed by some questioning of what the person means, followed by a lot of angry comments and immediately jumped upon potential misinterpretations. I think the real work can only be done through the Correspondent, who's job it is to take the communities ideals and mix them with the Dev's abilities and limitations to hopefully create a working profession that everyone can enjoy. Waiting for them to come to us hasn't worked too well, we're all a bit high strung and any red tends to bring out another type of red...
With regard to getting down and pulling up our shirts with the red-names, it really works against us. I didn't use to see it the same way I do now (but don't think that doesn't mean I haven't lost my fire).
Poor TK, I've been in a similar situation where I thought I was totally powerless and was rebeling fairly angrily until I was put in a position to actually help out. Being in that position takes you out of the comforable "group think" that allows you to just let fly with your emotions and be comforted when many people agree or join your opinion.
We didn't want Combat, so they're not giving us combat.
They tried to...we voted it off the island (for now).
Exactly.
We want Utility, but that question remains unanswered.
They have a good list already of profession utility modules we've suggested. Sometimes, the problem isn't that an idea isn't really good (and fun and so on) but that's not as attractive given time/schedule issues. They really do have other players to make happy. Yes, we've waited...but all SWG players suffer with tons of things.
There is a lot of truth to this, since the Dev's are somewhat hesitant to come to this forum (remember they're human too, and I imagine they get pretty angered seeing all the "Dev's you suck, go die, no more money for you!" and I'm fairly sure that it doesn't make them want to be helpful or carefully read our ideas) and so I wonder how much thought they've given to these ideas.
Giving them ideas that are:
fun, not overly yucky to implement, logical, marketable, balancable and especially technologically feasible is really key.
It would be interesting to know what "yucky to implement" and "technologically feasible" mean in this case. Many of us shoot out ideas that SOUND good, but might be very hard to implement, while others we think are impossible might be a mere extension of another ability already finished.
They always want utility module ideas...but we can't have 1000 zany things come out of the wood work. They have to make sense and such.
The current list still seems pretty solid, if we could get a "yes, because" or "no, because" I think we could seriously improve a lot of the "impossible" ideas into "not so impossible" ideas.
I see the Merchant droid showing quite a bit of promise...depending on how it's implemented. That's something that will make many peoples lives much easier and better, I suspect, including mine.
It also has the potential to really screw things up! Spam anyone?
On a lighter note that one and the Covert Detector one appeal quite a bit to me. (I'm sick of going into Imperials towns and getting "detected" and shot down by turrets placed bya shuttlport.)
But I still stand by the statement that these are a great start, but we need some more fleshing out, especially in modules that either are VERY specific, or are VERY general.
Respectfully,
You'll foget this someday... and I'll be watching!
/bow
Lowenblade wrote:
You're one of the guys we could thank for not having high-level droids, because you were against Droid Commanders on principle.
Yup. I won't deny that. The great majority of votes on the poll that I made (which, I think, was broad enough not be skewed) showed that I was hardly alone in that.
Respectfully,
/bow
Lowenblade wrote:
TheRealTK421 wrote:
I have seen other Corrs. state that they have seen/heard that the DE boards are among the most negative on the forums right now.
Tthe negativity of thethis board isa great indication of how unhappy DE players are about the profession.
No one knows that better than I...I used to be, and still am, that same Wookiee.
If we are not full of praise for the Dev Team and their minions, it's probably because relatively few DEs areremotely satisfiedwith the state of the profession. The Devs should worry more about resolving customer complains, and less about being popular.
And both Drashk and I have already told them as much (both here and on the Corr. boards).
Respectfully,
I think a lot of the negativity on these boards stems from a couple things:
- No clear purpose for the DE profession. We've been broken so long that everybody has a different idea of what a DE should be. It's for this very reason that we can never be one "unified voice". I think Sodan's proposal is the closest we've been to this. There are so many things that DE can be, and the Devs focus so much on what we cannot be that they neglect to tell us what we can be. If a Red Name were to come in here and give us some options, it would be much easier to rally behind something, than to have a hodgepodge of ideas floating around with many different camps, as we have now.
- Being passed over many times. I don't want to count the number of times I've heard a Red Name post that DE is "next on the list" or "we haven't forgotten about you". We've been promised over and over again that we will have development attention, that many of us are skeptical as to how much Dev attention we really have. And the first Publish that's geared toward DE, the biggest thing on the list is the big armor nerf. Without the armor nerf, this publish has a lot of good things in it for us, but killing off our armor drastically overshadows everything positive. So even with Dev attention, it seems like we're still getting shafted.
I can't comprehend why the Devs don't understand our negativity. We've been promised things, lied to, misinterpreted and (seemingly) ignored since Launch. What we need right now is a little kick in the right direction, and that really needs to come from a Dev. Seeing how wonderful the Chef revamp was gave me great hope when JustG said we have full development attention, but knowing the Devs really don't know what to do with DE just drags me back down again.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents' worth. Just had to get that off my chest, figured here was as good as any...
Lowenblade wrote:
Ellewen wrote:
/disagree...
This whole DE invasion adds a new dynamic to the entire game. Thats a good thing (tm). Also, remember that a nerf is not a permanent thing.
Lets see where the droid invasion takes us before we go nuclear. There are still too many unknowns at this point, in my oppinion.
cheers...
Spoken like a ture believer! How many times do the Devs have to take you down the primrose path before you'll loose faith in them?
Say! Are you interested in buying some land in Florida?
You obviously don't know me very well do you. pfff...
Ellewen wrote:
Lowenblade wrote:
Ellewen wrote:
/disagree...
This whole DE invasion adds a new dynamic to the entire game. Thats a good thing (tm). Also, remember that a nerf is not a permanent thing.
Lets see where the droid invasion takes us before we go nuclear. There are still too many unknowns at this point, in my oppinion.
cheers...
Spoken like a ture believer! How many times do the Devs have to take you down the primrose path before you'll loose faith in them?
Say! Are you interested in buying some land in Florida?
You obviously don't know me very well do you. pfff...
Sorry Ellewen*
Sounds to me like you are on the old denial trip here.
You have been raped, it was not a dream, and now you should complain to the authorities.
Pretending otherwise is just absolutely against all Government advice. It is also bad for your mental health, as demonstrated by your post. You will get absolutely nothing more than what is on offer if you cant pluck up the courage to say, like Oliver Twist, please can I have some more.
grr I hate socialist tendencies..they always result in the lowest common denominator thinking he's happy.
*edit--target now correctly identified*
Message Edited by Shian_Tavkin on 03-16-2004 01:58 AM