Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Discussion: Combat Utility Modules, A Middle Ground Solution.
Jenden wrote:
Shian, this would be a perfectly acceptable argument if it weren't for the fact that you can master pretty much any non-hybrid combat profession on top of droid engineer (and artisan I believe). This game does not limit you to just one role. I decided a little while back that I wanted to try some combat, so I dropped doctor and picked up rifleman. Its not an either or choice, you can have both.
This is THE reason why the balance issues affect us so.
/bow
Respectfully,
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
TK and Jenden
What you say is all well and good, and I agree. For what its worth I am a fair old pistoleer.
BUT, it doesn't get round the fact that we are DE. Again I say, its embarrassing to pull out a probot..and that just should not be.
I know they are useful, I know how to cycle them, but dont ever think that I will be satisfied with the current performance of them..its just not good enough. Thats is why they do not sell except to new players who know no better and just 'fancy a droid'.
Once again, against the converted I say, there must be a middle ground where a Probot or its new incarnation can be a positive contributor to a group. It is horrible to be a handicap, tolerated at best.
The thing is supposed to fight a bit, used to be able to, got nerfed temporarily and never got un-nerfed. For heavens sake acknowledge that at the least.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
I was excited to read the original post, and encouraged that Jenden and kollos didn't just strike it down.
[snip]
I Dont want to upset Kollos and his monumental desire to be a 'pure crafter'..let that be so.
Simple argument here Jenden
The probot as it was was nerfed...because it was too 'uber' in terms of the creature abilities at the time,
The creature abilities changed,
The Probot was never changed to reflect this.
This is original design stuff.
Now, you reveal that you dont believe it should ever have existed..well to me that sums it up. A DE was always supposed to be a bit of a hybrid, but you prefer to deny our right to that because it doesnt suit your ideal, and meantime you crusade to get any and all combat abilities removed. The profession was designed hybrid, and then nerfed. Why do you and your like want to make us less than we already are?
I just cant ever convince you that at the very least we should have what we were always designed to have, a modest combat capability. Not Uber, just something workable, and more to the point sellable.
CL10 droids will sell no better than a probot..worse if they cannot have the standard craft/med modules.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
BUT, it doesn't get round the fact that we are DE. Again I say, its embarrassing to pull out a probot..and that just should not be.
I know they are useful, I know how to cycle them, but dont ever think that I will be satisfied with the current performance of them..its just not good enough. Thats is why they do not sell except to new players who know no better and just 'fancy a droid'.
Once again, against the converted I say, there must be a middle ground where a Probot or its new incarnation can be a positive contributor to a group. It is horrible to be a handicap, tolerated at best.
The thing is supposed to fight a bit, used to be able to, got nerfed temporarily and never got un-nerfed. For heavens sake acknowledge that at the least.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
A DE was always supposed to be a bit of a hybrid, but you prefer to deny our right to that because it doesnt suit your ideal, and meantime you crusade to get any and all combat abilities removed. The profession was designed hybrid, and then nerfed. Why do you and your like want to make us less than we already are?
Kollos
It seems to me that if you truly support Virantis's idea, than we may not be as far apart as you think.
I long ago gave up any thought of DE unique Combat Droids, the argument does't stand up to scrutiny.
As to DE being a combat profession, it always has been. Not at an Uber level, but simply because we have the ability to make Probots cheap for ourselves..it is true but possibly unpalatable that probots are disposables for us. We have always been Hybrid, just not to the same level as CH or Smuggler.
Al I really want out of this (as posted elsewhere) is to avoid the current situation where I am excluded from full groups cos I'm DE and contribute less, to avoid the silly Probot sucks comments, and to have something very very medium in a droid combat ability, but something above the rediculous level we can produce now.
We have stood still while Lair HP was increased, Specials were added all over the place, things generally moved on, yet our one Probot is just the nerfed baby it has always been.
We are not a hybrid in the true sense, nor do I want us to be, but we are 'hybrid'. jensen says elsewhere he wishes probot never existed for us. If it had not, the crafter only argument would be much stronger, but it did, and it does,,and because they are low cost disposables, that makes us Hybrid..like it or not
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
As to DE being a combat profession, it always has been. Not at an Uber level, but simply because we have the ability to make Probots cheap for ourselves..it is true but possibly unpalatable that probots are disposables for us. We have always been Hybrid, just not to the same level as CH or Smuggler.
Kollos
It's true that I was, but it doesnt change anything from my point of view.
Please, rid yourself of any notion that I support DE only droids..I dont.
However the fact remains that it takes so little to actually make a probot, that any self respecting DE has at least 3 of the devils in the datapad, and can make another in 5 minutes. How else to have them help out at the Emporor's retreat or jabbas Palace in repetitive missionusage?
As such, they are disposable to us, and so we are able to use them unflinchingly..it follows that unlike others who have to pay for them in hard credits, they are commonplace and cheap to us, and we are allowed by game rules to use them. Thus, by economic default, we are somewhat Hybrid.
Why does this concept not ring true to you?
And. as I said, it has been frozen in time. Other things moved on and the Probot is as it has been for an age. Simply put I want it brought into line. Not Uber, just functional in line with the new game.
*typo that I noticed 
*
Message Edited by Shian_Tavkin on 02-25-2004 10:06 PM
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
And. as I said, it has been frozen in time. Other things moved on and the Probot is as it has been for an age. Simply put I want it brought into line. Not Uber, just functional in line with the new game.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
Please, rid yourself of any notion that I support DE only droids..I dont.
Consider myself ridded. Or something like that.
However the fact remains that it takes so little to actually make a probot, that any self respecting DE has at least 3 of the devils in the datapad, and can make another in 5 minutes. How else to have them help out at the Emporor's retreat or jabbas Palace in repetitive missionusage?
As such, they are disposable to us, and so we are able to use them unflinchingly..it follows that unlike others who have to pay for them in hard credits, they are commonplace and cheap to us, and we are allowed by game rules to use them. Thus, by economic default, we are somewhat Hybrid.
Why does this concept not ring true to you?
That clarifies what you mean much better, thank you.
It doesn't ring true to me, though, becausethe mild economic advantage you describeis something that involves game play, not game design. Besides, most established playershave enough money that 20k (or whatever) for a Probot is not a disincentive at all. (Virtually anyone can raise 20k in hour if they want to.) And since Probots can be reused over and over there's really no risk of losing your investment, so I personally wouldn't call them disposable in any sense.
Droid Engineers are not a hybrid due to the existence of the Probot because anyone can use it. Put another way, Probot usage is not restricted to the Droid Engineer profession, therefore the ability to use a Probot cannot provide something to the Droid Engineer profession that it does not also provide to any other profession.
Is Weaponsmith a hybrid? They can make grenades that anyone can use (albeit some better than others) and have the same economic advantage with grenades that Droid Engineers have with Probots.
And. as I said, it has been frozen in time. Other things moved on and the Probot is as it has been for an age. Simply put I want it brought into line. Not Uber, just functional in line with the new game.
Yup, I agree. They seem to have rebalanced just about everything else, but for some reason they forgot what should have been everyone's trusty sidekick. It really does make me wonder about the upcoming game-wide combat rebalance... is all combat going to be toned down a bit during that? If so, it would make some sense to me not to boost the Probot back up to its pre-nerf state if it were just going to get nerfed back down again during the rebalance. Not a lot of sense, mind you, because we have to suffer with a gimped Probot until the rebalance happens, but I can see the logic behind it.
Virtanis wrote:
Would an ADV-Probot, Medium Armor, 40% resists, healable (with the new droid stim coming soon), loaded with two combat utility modules (like the ideas I posted above) bring a level of functionality you'd consider adequate?
Just curious, since we're getting a bit more specific here.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
We are not a hybrid in the true sense, nor do I want us to be, but we are 'hybrid'. jensen says elsewhere he wishes probot never existed for us. If it had not, the crafter only argument would be much stronger, but it did, and it does,,and because they are low cost disposables, that makes us Hybrid..like it or not