Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: No combat droids, please
BigGuy_WAN wrote:
Who in the world wouldn't want combat droids? Come on this is Star Wars not D&D
Don't assume to speak for everyone. I personally don't want combat droids at all (though I know it is inevitable so I at least want them to be done right, certed to appropriate combat professions or everyone depending on strength).
Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Jenden wrote:
BigGuy_WAN wrote:
Who in the world wouldn't want combat droids? Come on this is Star Wars not D&D
Don't assume to speak for everyone. I personally don't want combat droids at all (though I know it is inevitable so I at least want them to be done right, certed to appropriate combat professions or everyone depending on strength).
Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
The right way to do them is with an eye to overall game balance. If there are high-end combat droids, they must be certed to a class without inherent combat skills, in the same way that high-end creature pets are (or will be after the publish) certed only to high-end Creature Handlers.
Low to mid range combat droids should be certed to basic and elite professions respectively, across the board.
I agree with Sodan.. I'm a mellow DE, but like to go hunt from time to time. I think combat droids would sell like hotcakes (especially if they smelled like hotcakes), and I think DEs should get higher-level droids across the board. As a master DE, it makes sense that I would built prototype droids..stuff that did NOT take standard commands that other people would intuitively know. I believe I should be able to build much better droids for myself (as a DE who has mastered the profession) than a consumer-grade droid that has to be "dumbed-down" to take standardized commands for everyone else to use.
As far as the "religion" of star wars purity, you're sadly not going to find it in this game. Pointing fingers at CH (and likewise ignoring it) is pointless. This game is barely contiguous with the star wars universe, and is by no stretch "pure".I'd love for everything to match the books, movies,and old-school RPG literature, but it doesn't. I've adjusted nicely to this fact since my doctor put me on the orange pills, and I'm sure my doc can hook other SW "purists" up too. 
So without any futher ado. I want combat droids. I also want uber DE-only droids (both combat and utility). If this "ruins" the RP experience for you, then don't build them..Given howcomplex and broad the interests of all the thousands of SWG players are, someone's going to get their way, andsomeone will not. It's the world we live in.. Whether I get my way or not, I'm going to keep playing.. and I'm going to have fun. It's a pity so few players are flexible.
In conclusion, SOE has made countless blunders in the DE field.. so I wonder if this whole argument is moot. They may turn all droids into turnips for all we know.. HA!
Cheers,
Jenden wrote:
Grimjakk wrote:
The right way to do them is with an eye to overall game balance. If there are high-end combat droids, they must be certed to a class without inherent combat skills, in the same way that high-end creature pets are (or will be after the publish) certed only to high-end Creature Handlers.
Low to mid range combat droids should be certed to basic and elite professions respectively, across the board.
The problem you can run in to here is that if you cert them to DE, you are essentially combining two professions (a crafting profession and a pet handler profession). Both of these would be full professions in and of themselves, but only use a total of 92 skill points (which is the least number of skill points of any profession). Realisticly if you were going to do this you would at the very least have to have DE's master ranged support (closest thing to some kind of command tactics skill I can think of). Best profession to be certed for them would probably be squad leader, as they don't have much in the way of built in combat skills but are supposed to be good at commanding groups (would make sense if droids fit this).
Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
That's really not a valid argument from an overall game balance perspective... DE's are not one of the higher grossing crafting professions at the moment... CH's (not a crafting profession)made more selling cowardly gurreks over the last few months than we have selling all droids since the probot nerf. And they'll be sole source of trained mounts in the future.
"which is the least number of skill points of any profession"
Not sure where you get that... Architect, Armorsmith, Carbineer, Chef, Image Designer, Merchant, Fencer, Pistolier, Pkeman, Rifleman, Tailor, Teras Kasi, Swordsman, and Weaponsmith all take the same 92 points to master.
Creature Handler, Dancer, and Musician only take14 more points to master at 106.
(Just for future reference... Smugglers and Bio-Engineers are at 121, Squad leaders at 135, Doctors and Rangers at 140, Commandoes at 169, and Bounty Hunters at a whopping 217. **edit**, thePrima book finally came in handy...:smileytongue
Realistically, I could see having DE's master one more artisan line say... surveying?
I really doubt any MDE hasn't spent at least 106 points to get there.
Wanji wrote:
Balaam
It is stupid to compare droid engineers to biogengineers. Secondly, the idea of droid controllers is also lame. Droids are not creatures. Droid engineers are not bioengineers. Droids are artificial constructs that are prorammed. You don't need combat experience since the droids combat skills are programmed and does not depend on the maker skill nor combat experience. Second, it is shortsighted to think that droid engineers are crafters only. As an analogy, droid engineers are like scientist--they can use their own creation. As an analogy to RL, if you've seen robowars in Tech TV. The people handling those robots are the makers.
False. As an analogy to RL too: ask an engineer who can build computers if he can program them too and make a game like SWG. Most will answer NO. Crafting an electronic, programable device and then programming it or 'handling' it require completly different skills.
To program a combat droid you need skills that are related to combat not to droid crafting.
May be, one way to implement this in SWG, would be to 'drop' some general combat XP into the newly craftedcombat droid in order for it to be functionnal...
KaGe
Look. Stop making the weaponsmith/armorsmith comparison. It's comparing apples and oranges. Do weaponsmiths automatically become master marksmen in real life? No!! Do programmers and engineers who know how to build computers in real life know how to operate them and operate them very well? Yes!!
Ah, you're not a computer programmer are you. If you were, then you'd know how much of a falacy that is. In fact, for any non-trivial application, the developers are not capable of operating the system to its fullest extent. For a simple example, look at MS Word or Powerpoint. Developers there know about the features, but they don't know anything about making use of little tricks and quirks to make flashy presentations. For a start, the developer working on the MS Word part, has no idea about the code behind the VB interpretor that is used to create macros.
Droids are no different. Yes, they may have some limited form of AI, but to be the most effective at making use of them, you have to be a full-time user. Want to be effective at shooting a gun, you need to practice (ie, pick up skill boxes in a combat profession). Want to be effective at using a droid in combat, first learn what combat is, then you may be effective at using it in that situation. Unless you do, you'll be fumbling around instructing the droid: "shoot that thing... err... wait, no.... shoot that one... argh.. .no , that one" booof, player incapped. It doesn't matter whether you are talking about real life, the movies or the game, the DE is never going to be the one that is fully capable of making use of their combat droids. Only someone who engages in combat for a living will be the effective one at using it.
Grimjakk wrote:
That's really not a valid argument from an overall game balance perspective... DE's are not one of the higher grossing crafting professions at the moment... CH's (not a crafting profession)made more selling cowardly gurreks over the last few months than we have selling all droids since the probot nerf. And they'll be sole source of trained mounts in the future.
So are you suggesting they don't fix any of our bugs? There is already quite a demand out there for droids (this is star wars, people want dorids) and if they fix some of the bugs and put in some form of decay to increase repeat business I think we could easily outsell many if not most of the crafting professions.
Not sure where you get that... Architect, Armorsmith, Carbineer, Chef, Image Designer, Merchant, Fencer, Pistolier, Pkeman, Rifleman, Tailor, Teras Kasi, Swordsman, and Weaponsmith all take the same 92 points to master.
I meant that it was in the lowest bracket of skill points needed, obviously there are more that need the same number but I was making the point that we don't need more than anyone else.
Creature Handler, Dancer, and Musician only take14 more points to master at 106.
(Just for future reference... Smugglers and Bio-Engineers are at 121, Squad leaders at 135, Doctors and Rangers at 140, Commandoes at 169, and Bounty Hunters at a whopping 217. **edit**, thePrima book finally came in handy...:smileytongue
Realistically, I could see having DE's master one more artisan line say... surveying?
I really doubt any MDE hasn't spent at least 106 points to get there.
How many skill points you have used has nothing to do with how many you need to keep. The only reason I keep surveying around is because I can't do anything with the 9 SP it would give me.
Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Perhaps there just need to be a certtree for anything that isn't covered in the game already(so weapons are still covered by the to proffesions they are already in, as they areall about use, not construction, already)?After all I know how to drive a car, but know very little about how to makeone. All this skill treewould dois allow you to use/control the item/entity, you would not be able to do anything beyond that.
Perhaps think of it as not only covering the knowledge to use the items, but also the official permits to own them. Some ideas for branches would be, Droid Ownership, Pet & Mount Licenses,Pilot Skills & Vehicle Ownership.
As for actually having combat droids, they are envitable. I wish though, that we could get all the other things droids could be used for first...
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=26277
...there's plenty of ways to kill things in the game for now 
