Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: DE's I need two things from you please
1. I agree with most of what Sinostri stated in her State of the Profession.(although I dont think we are really worse off than when we launched in June. I have a healthy bank account thanks todroid selling)
Major concern- Not ALL DE's are interested in more combat droids, just more functionality and purpose to the existing droids.
2. I dont neccessarily agree with the DEV's plan for combat modules (see above)
However, I agree with almost everything else. Particularly being able to call multiple droids.
Yod Amac ---- Radiant Galaxy ---- Syndicate City, Naboo
www.droidworx.homestead.com
1. State of the profession
Agree with Sintrosi
2. SOE DE Plan
NO
While the plan has some good ideas it has too many major flaws. We are not a combat class, we are crafters. We need to make droids that other classes need. Not want, need.
I don't post much, and I try to be positive, but this is getting bad. We waited all day for you to post questions? Hell, if that was all you were going to post why not post it yesterday? You didn't know you were just going to ask questions? I feel like we are being stalled. You posted early this afternoon that you were working with Sintrosi and would post when you had something. She could have told you (and probably did) what we thought. Our problems are well known.
Well I have to say I agree with Sintrosi. The DE profession needs fixing bad. People are dropping the profession left and right. Sells are very few and far between.
The DE plan was very vaque and had no substance. MSE bombs - while they sound cool it just doesn't fit in my mind.
Some things I would love to see.
1. We need a combat droid Chassis that at least is on Par with a non CH pet.
2. The lifters need a job. There were a couple ideas posted previously. Discount on moving harvesters, being able to move buildings short distances without having to empty them.
3. With the Player Cities coming, I would like to see a Construction droid that can level the group your town will be on.
4. A restriction on the level of modules that can go into MSE's, R5;s, R4's and such. There needs to be a reason people want to buy the R2 and R3.
5. DE's need to be able to bring out more then one droid, so we can repair.
6. 3PO Droids also need a job. Advertisers or something
7. Upkeep droids that can gather resources from Harvs, pay maintenance and such.
8. Also, we need the current bugs fixed.
I am sure there is more, but that will do for now.
Thanks for the opportunity to comment on the state of the DE profession and its future. I have stated many of these things elsewhere, but as a courtesy to you since you are requesting input, I'll repost them here. I took some time to hash this out, I hope you will consider it in your assessment of where to go next.
First of all, I agree completely with Sintrosi's commentary.
Second of all, I have the following comments on the draft DE Plan that came out last week.
Combat Droids
We need new combat droids, not new modules to put into existing droids. No one likes the idea of R2D2 or C3P0 wielding a blaster. At most, a very weak self-defense mechanism for R units would be ok; R2D2 had a little short range zapper, I believe. Perhaps it could be a melee-range warning shot.
We need new chassis beginning with the Droideka chassis for DEs. The animation is already there, we just need the schematic. The Droideka Adv will be out signature droid, the pride of the profession and take us out of the laughing stock. I propose the following:
--Droideka Advanced for Master DEs only -- This should be our best droid. Personal Shield Generators, droid armor, two module slots, good damage, good HAM. I suggest that these droid be as good as the best CH pet, but I will settle for a bit less. But it MUST be far better than the probot. Optional shield generators increase profession interdependence which is cool. Optional Light Power Core for unlimited power would be awesome.
--Droideka Basic -- For Droid Designers and for certain combat classes with the right certs, no shield generators, no module slots, diminished HAM and damage
--Un-nerfed probots -- for everyone else, boost HAM or at least dmg
--New combat droids -- For everyone. how about those Battle Droids from episode 1? New chassis for everyone else will stimulate interest in the profession and sales. What about swappable weapons based on the owner's weapon certifications (or some subset thereof)
Check these possible combat droids out:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/battledroid/
http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/dwarfspiderdroid/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/ig88/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/superbattledroid/index.html
To be fair, there is a minority of DEs who dislike intro'ing combat to the DE profession. They either don't like combat, or they don't want Gunner DEs clouding the profession (like the dabbler CHs) and driving down prices. If you bow to them, then the rest of us DEs interested in better combat droids won't get squat. On the other hand, if you give us the droids above, non-combatant DEs are free to roleplay their characters all the way to crafting nirvana and combatant DEs get to rock the house; this way everyone gets what they want.
Again new chassis, not R2D2 with a blaster, is what we want. And we want to be able to sell some new droids to people.
Also, everyone -- not just DEs -- needs a simple way (as in no need for a DE or an extra droid) to repair droid damage, like pet damage is healed. Without that ability, no one will ever replace pets with droids and the zoo will go on. Vitality should be repaired with special droids and expendable service packs/parts.
Number of Droids for DEs
Two is the minimum -- one combat and one "service droid". But I suggest letting as do as many as the CHs. Why not? Three of those Trooper Droids from Ep. 1 would be awesome! Two is the minimum, though so we can repair wounds with LE Repair Droids and recharge with Power Droids.
Don't sweat multi-droid controls. Will do it with macros. Just give us easier ways to program droids and rename them with numbers like buildings.
Service Droids
These need to be improved. Some ideas:
Medical Droids
I love the ideas for medical droids in the plan so long as they don't replace healer professions. A surgical droid should slowly heal all those around it, like the med center does, albeit more slowly. In addition, when loaded up with Medic/Doctor-created stimpacks they should apply those on command or when a player is incapped. We need to know their stimpack count too. Perhaps they should require some doctor-made hardware as well to increase profession interdependence which is a positive thing.
Repair Droids
These should repair droid damage and wounds. They should be useable on more than just droids -- to repair item, buildings and armor. Perhaps in player cities they can lower maintenance costs. Repair droids should use expendable droid "stimpacks" to repair and give bonuses when others use these items. They should give bonuses to all crafters when crafting.
Power Droids
These should NEVER require batteries and use a Light Power Core instead of a Power Core Unit. Attaching them to harvesters is great, but what happens when you redeed? They should stay attached to the deed. Do they count against you limit of droids when attached? They do not. A limit of one power droid for all ten lots or quickly degrading power droids would be pointless, especially with power going for 1/unit. Power droid should play a role in player cities. Better yet, let power droids add three days of power to harvesters at a time. Force us to replace power core occasionally.
R Units and Protocols
These should be able to deliver items on our behalf by taking the shuttle/starport. R2D2 and C3P0 went a LONG WAY to deliver Princess Leah's message -- "help me obi-won". Load them up with the WPs, the goods and credits for the shuttle and send them off! Our droids should go on simple runs for us. Protocols should play a role in cities. I like being able to program them to bark. What about using protocols to complete quests that require translation of languages that players can't learn -- like Jawa and Ewok. Or allow us to trade with Jawa droid dealers or with Ewoks etc. Player Politicians should be required to use/own protocols or given bonuses for using them. Architects should be required to use protocols as components of shuttle/star ports and other Player City buildings. Protocols should act as buttlers in people houses. Serving drinks, cleaning, greeting, lowering maintenance cost. Perhaps protocols might be better diplomats? Allow crafters to bribe their way past the highwaymen on the way to harvesters. Certainly the Trade Federation Avengers would be into that.
Binary Load Lifter
These should be able to carry between 100-150 items AT LEAST. They should play a role in player cities (reduce taxes?). BLLs should make harvester runs for us, including adding power that we load into the BLL. Perhaps they can be escorted by our combat droids. BLLs need a function fast! They need to lift loads in a hurry! BLLs should reduce harvester and city maintenance/taxes. Architects should get bonuses for using them. Maybe they can be used to move houses without redeeding them? Or lower redeeding costs?
Modules and Additional Functions
"We think all droids when they are used should take power and wound damage" -- I'm sorry but this is a VERY bad idea. If you want to add balance, do it another way. Droids should not get injured by their basic operation! Expendable items/charges for surgical/repair droids is fine. When did R2D2 kick over from slicing the deathstar? Never! There are other ways to balance this. Speaking of, the whole droid batteries thing sucks -- pun intended.
I'm in favor of a module or droid type for every class. Such as:
--Med modules for docs (bonuses you described in plan)
--repair/crafting modules for artisans/crafters (bonuses for crafting, not just function as a station)
--DNA sampling and DNA storage mods for BEs
--Slicing for slicers mod (gives bonuses to slicing; perhaps required to take over anoenemy base)
--Accompaniment droids/modules for entertainers -- drum machine for musicians, lights for dancers, etc.
--Waiter/buttlers/cooler for chefs and their houses
--Hairstyling droids for image designers?
You get the point: every class should have a droid or droid module that gives bonuses or augments them.
Certifications for Droids
I like the idea of letting other classes pull out extra droids per profession -- surgicals for doctors, repair droids for crafters, and combat droids for elite combat types. If you use a cert system, you don't have to worry about balance since the noobs don't get the powerful droids.
Final Thoughts
The most important thing in my opinion, subjectively, is the addition of droidekas at least for Master DEs. It should be the crown of our profession, but if you want us to work for it (quests, reverse engineer Droideka parts from lok, etc.), fine. I will. We have dealt with being crappy DEs for months! Scraped by with no real rewards to show for it -- give us this gift as recompense! CHs get lvl 70 pets!!! And they can call three at a time! Let us walk the starports in pride and safety, with a droideka (or two) at our side!
The next most important thing is new/improved (NOT converted) combat droids for Non-DEs so we can sell them. We need a way to heal these outside of camps, without the need for a DE or a repair droid. Expandable repair kits will work.
Improved services droids are also important.
Thunderheart - thanks for taking the time to hear our concerns. I honestly don't think that you'll find much here that isn't posted in at least 3 other places, but at least it will allow you to coallate the information.
Sintrosi's State of the Profession:
I haven't been a DE for that long - though I've been working towards it since practically before I bought the game. I'm not a power gamer and I prefer to advance through the profession at a more realistic pace rather than "grinding" up to the levels I want to be at.
Having said that, it's hard for me to assess about half of what Sintrosi said history-wise, but as far as current events are concerned, I completely agree. My short existance as a DE has been a tumultuous one (I reached Novice DE shortly before the holiday weekend when no one could build droids) and while I'm still excited about the profession, it's kind of like buying a sprots car capable of going 300mph and being stuck in traffic that's going 35.
The Plan
I generally agree with the direction of the plan, but I'll pick a few points on which to dissent:
Combat droids. I'm glad you guys are looking in to this, because it means we'll have some more marketable merchandise. However, I don't feel that it addresses the homogenous nature of the items we craft. Combat modules are fine, so long as they are more or less effective depending on the chassis they are put in. The same thing, obviously, applies to the existing modules.
I'm glad that the role of medical droids, power droids, and MSE's (kaBOOM!) are being looked in to, but again the biggest issue to me is diversifying and expanding the role of droids in general. I'd like to see some uses for droids that aren't necessary for one to progress through the game, but that make it much more enjoyable. I want people to get excited about obtaining a droid. A great example was posted here: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=33816
I think that generally covers my concerns. Again, thank you thank you thank you for your attention.
1. While sinostri seems like he's nearing the end of his rope, he seems like he knows what the deal is, and I agree with his views.
2. As a recent emigrant to the class, I like the changes, and am fully behind 'DE only pets'. Droid Engineers were jokes, in fact they still are, but giving them somehting that makes them worthy will attact people of many different qualities, and therefore I like the changes... but hope they lead more toward the 'handler' side.
-Azerin Dangerflirt
Colonel, Imperial Army
I would have to agree with Sintrosi. The bugs need to be the first thing on the list. As much as I would like to see other droids, modules, etc, the bugs need to be fixed. Make the Surgical and LE droids work.
The plan from SOE is just adding more bugs to an ever growing list. A MSE bomb isn't what I want my profession to become. That belongs in the weaponsmith skill.
Anyways Sintrosi has the right plan, fix the bugs, then add content, and the profession will be great.
Sintrosi's "State of the Profession" post was brimming with frustration and disappointment, but was factually accurate. I would have injected less passion into the post, but I think that's one reason Sintrosi represents the profession as a whole better than I ever could. It's easy to dismiss a negative tone, but you really should give that post all attention, and take both the facts and the emotion very seriously. They help explain how we got where we are, and why this community seems almost intractably adversarial. We've had a lot of disappointments, very few promises, and even less follow-through.
With regard to the Plan, I can kind of see what your thinking was in coming up with that. It does represent an attempt to address the top problems we expressed, but it's not quite there. Parts of it may even be in the wrong direction altogether. Part of the difficulty with expressing our problems lies in translating our feelings into a concrete specification, and I recognize that that's your primary difficulty as well.
So in addressing the points of the Plan, my goal is to explain objectively what's right and what's wrong about them. My fellow DEs may or may not agree with my assessments, and some of them will certainly take exception to my refusal to shout them at the top of my lungs, but what I ultimately want is to establish a framework by which we can debate these things in practical terms rather than emotional ones.
Item #1: Combat Droids
PROBLEM 1A
Droid engineers do not necessarily want to become another combat class. Item #1 misses the point.
First, a bit of philosophy. Bear with me. I'm building to something more concrete.
There's a fundamental disconnect between priorities in real life and priorities in a MMO. In real life every activity can be described in terms of how it serves to maintain civilian society. When combat occurs, it occurs primarily to further the aims of the society.
In a MMO, however, combat is an end unto itself. When civilian activities are simulated in an MMO, they can be described entirely in terms of how they further combat activities in the game. This difference is the crack through which droids in SWG are presently falling.
Although there are some droid engineers who want to additionally play a direct combat role, I don't think what we wanted was to become a traditional MMO pet class. What we want is to make droids that seem important in SWG society in the same way that droids seem important in Star Wars society. Turning droid engineers into another specialized kind of soldier does not accomplish that end. We want to make combat droids because that's at the heart of life in the game. That's what's important to most of the people we encounter.
I know we do not want to repeat the problems already posed by creature pets and pre-nerf probots, but adding combat modules that can be used only by DEs is overkill. It's such an expedient solution that it overshoots the target. We need droids that other players find useful, and combat pets are one of the primary things they need.
PROPOSED SOLUTION 1A
Add combat droid certification points to other combat professions. No starting profession will ever get any combat droid certification points. Every advanced combat profession will.
Anyone who is a novice in any elite combat profession will receive +1 combat droid levels, allowing them to use droids with level 1 combat modules only. Obtaining an intermediate-level elite combat skill (on a branch that offers droid certification) will give you +2 combat droid levels. Certification points will NOT be cumulative across professions. Meaning that getting a +1 certification in Pistoleer and a +1 certification in Rifleman does not give you +2 levels. You are certified to use up to your highest certification level in any ONE profession. I recommend that you offer droid certification points in the less-popular branches of the elite combat professions to encourage people to pursue them.
Droid engineers will acquire combat droid certification points equal to the level of combat modules they can personally make. Thus DEs can use anything they can make, but only what they themselves can make. No sneaky earning Novice DE and then buying L6 combat droids from Masters, unless of course you also happen to be a Master Pistoleer.
PROBLEM 1B
The scheme presented extends the existing problems with droid uniqueness.
In short, we still won't have an answer to the question, "what does [droid chassis type] do?" It's still all about the modules. And while the modularity is great, types of droids are supposed to have functionality unique to themselves. As much as we need combat droids, we neither need nor want mouse droids equipped with blaster cannons. That would be as frustratingly incongruous as the existing creature glut, even to the DEs who would be making the money from it.
PROPOSED SOLUTION 1B
Part 1: Address uniqueness in general. Do not remove modules completely, but make certain chassis have advantages or disadvantages when using particular modules. Make some chassis unable to use certain module types at all. Example: give the BLL a couple of module slots, then expand the item slot cap to 100 for that chassis and give it a 5x multiplier to any storage module installed in that chassis, but restrict it from using data or medical modules at all. Provide greater benefits to droids appearing higher on the Blueprints branch. Example: Any astromech should provide a bonus to the use of a crafting station module, but an Advanced R3 should provide a significantly greater bonus than a base R5.
Part 2: Add actual combat droid chassis. I was going to suggest putting them in the Construction tree to avoid further crowding in the Blueprints tree, but I think it might be better to put them in Blueprints, leaving armor in Construction, and putting combat modules into Production, thus spreading out combat droid schematics and preventing "dabblers" from being able to get nearly the full combat benefit from a relatively small subset of the profession. As per the above suggestion, make these combat droid chassis the only ones in which the combat modules will be truly effective. The ability to give Artoo a blaster isn't really what we're after.
Item #2: Multiple Active Droids
Multiple active droids for DEs is absolutely essential. And unlike many of us, I totally agree with the restriction to have only one combat droid active at a time. It's a pure balancing matter. But the combat droids must be made sufficiently capable that they are a worthy choice when compared against creature and faction pets, or there's no point in the exercise. Not really a problem/solution. Just an observation.
Item #3: Increase Repair Droid Functionality
I don't see this as a feature enhancement but as an essential bugfix. There must be a way to repair both white and black HAM bars, and to restore lost vitality without the use of organic pet vitality packs. Hot droid-on-droid repair action should perhaps not be the only means of repairing a droid. We built the darn things; we should be able to fix them when they break. I'm not entirely sure what it is about expendable repair items that you believe will be more "Star Warsy," but I can see why you might want that from a gameplay perspective.
SUGGESTIONS
Give us varying levels of droid repair modules rather than just the one we have. Stick them in the Refinement tree to give people an additional excuse to earn those boxes. Distinguish between black-bar repairs (which should be actual repairs) and white-bar repairs (perhaps called "tune-ups" or "maintenance"). Call vitality restoration an "overhaul" maybe. Don't call it "vitality" -- they're not alive. L1 and L2 repair modules should only be able to perform tune-ups. L3 and L4 modules should perform superior tune-ups, and add the ability to perform repairs. L5 and L6 modules should include improvements to the existing repair abilities, but also add the ability to overhaul another droid. Repairing things should be a drain on a droid's action pool. This drain should always be greater than or equal to the amount of damage repaired, but should decrease with higher-level modules. There should be a small, and explicitly indicated, refresh time between repair attempts. This interval should decrease with increasing module level. When vehicles (both land and space) go live, droid repair modules should affect them as well. Go ahead and plan around this now so you don't have to worry about repair droids stepping on somebody's existing vehicle repair business later.
This post is too long already, so I'm going to stop there for now. The three important points are covered anyway. I can't guarantee the rest of the DE profession agrees with me, but the details I gave above would make "the Plan" much more palatable to me.
too lazy to read all the pages in yet another "how to fix DE" thread but hope someone has mentioned a survey droid or module. Just being able to send one out to find the highest concentration would be great, even better if it would harvest for you for awhile.
agree with state of profession post.
disagree with the proposed plan. see all other postings, it's been repeated many times.
1) I greatly agree with Sinostri's State of the Profession. There are a lot of bugs we have, but in those I think she meant....fix the things that ought to work but don't. There are also design flaws inherint to the profession that will be tougher to fix, but exist nontheless (no difference in chasis).
2) Hummm...I think the plan shows effort. However, it has some "extra fat" that really is unnecessary and could be shaved off. MSE bombs? We don't need them at all. Battle Modules that only we can use? As vague as it is, we don't need these either. I think what we need are battle droids that other people can use (giving us a market), but do that while instilling a Cert system that keeps these droids out of younger-player hands, and then give only one or two "Ultimate Battle Droids" that only a DE can use (Droideka), but don't allow these droids to ever be as powerful as a Master Creature Handler pet.
The plan, it seems, just takes us in a different direction. We're a crafting class, and the plan seems to want to make us an independant combat-type class. Instead of doing some of those things in the post, try to focus on the fact that most of our droid chasis' are unnecessary (IE, modules work just as well in other ones)....instead, give us more markets to sell in, meaning more uses for droids other than Medical and Crafting Station, which are our big two. I like that the Surgical Droid does more than a MSE with Med 6, but perhaps the Surgical is doing *too* much. It doesn't need to automatically stim an incapped player, but I do like that it can maybe be filled with stims and targetted to heal a person that the Medic commands it to (only a Medic can do it, so as not to take away from a player's job).
Hey there night owls 
Ill be the first one to tell you that I am not a crafter. I'm sitting here reading your pains, your desires and your angst, but the commentary for what you want seems very individualized andvery limited in what you want. You'vedone a fantastic job of telling me what you dont want, but only a few put effort inwhat they DO want and it left me withoutthe impression of a central direction that will suit most of your purposes.
Im stilltrying to understand what makes you tick and I had some questions, so here goes...
There needs to be more usefull things for droids to do for certain professions.
What things and which professions?
What items seem like the most important and which professions have interdependencies that are a lot of fun?
What entertains you folks?
I dont know what I can do, but there is a lot of talk about Combat Droids. There are a lot of dependencies here so its not an easy, cut and dry proposition...
And give us Droideka
how very anti-climatic and dissappointing.
nothing planned, just some random ideas, like someone else said, I guess its a start.
The satisfaction you seek will come in time. None of this is going to happen instantaneously, but I'll be around a lot working hard to help get it right 
.what kind of time frame are we looking at for some of these changes
I really don't know. I have to understand the changes first. I have to understand the changes and what kind of impact they are going to have. My goal is to find all the things you like and enjoy and need. Then I will take that, do some investigation to find out what can happen and when. Then Ill work with the team to do as much as wecan, as fast aswe can.
The medical droids had better be certed to Master Medic/Novice Doc/Novice CM then, because with this idea a player can simply replace the Player Medic with a Droid
Thats definately a concern. It changes the focus of both "when" and "where" players go to get healed and thats a key activity.
Hmmm, looks like there really was a LOT more thought put into the creature changes than droids.
No there wasn't. Creature Handlers were well under way (almost done actually) when I came on board. Droid Engineers was next and here we are...
When it says only DE will be able to use these combat modules do you mean that only DE will be able to asemble these modules or that only DE will be able to use combat droids of any form?
Which would you prefer and why?
One small step for droid functionality, one giant leap for DE- Dev relations.
Droid functionality or Droid Engineer Functionality? Which is more entertaining? How do you see each side?
Only a DE will be able to craft them and insert them in droids is my guess.
Is that the way you want it?
Umm, please tell me more about this. Sounds like it is gonig to be stepping all over me and my fellow healers.
What are your conerns?
I also must admit to looking for a bit more specificity,
Like what?
help me out on this one. does this mean that only droid engineers will be able to command/use droids that have these modules isntalled, or will everyone
Only DE's would make them. Any Droid owner would gain the benefits of their Droids Abilities...
why do you talk about 1 active pet per player as the maximum in the CH changes thread and here I read that you plan to have more than one active droid. Arent you guys talking with each other?
I dont know, but Ill find out
There's always more of course, and while these changes sound good, they didn't make me go "YAY!" like I was hoping they would.
(i saw all the stuff from your post 
)
What WOULD make you go "yay"?
Finally i can watch those stupid annoying mouse droids get what they deserve.
LOL 
Like my dad always says "When the chips are down the buffalo's empty"......Why does he always say that?
I dont know, why?
Will droid power rates be looked at?
I dont know, how does it work and what's the problem?
Clarify please: "ONLY Droid Engineers will be able to make and use these modules."
Will clarify...
My only gripe is that we are so closely dependent on items from the Master Artisan box and there is no added benefit.
Thats a good point. I'll bring it up.
For example, will the DE community be engaged to provide our suggestions via our Correspondent, or does SOE already have internal design meetings scheduled to tackle these issues?
Yes. Engage me and the Correspondent. We gather the info and I take inside so the team can know what you want; what you like, what you want and what is fun
This sounds good too, I like these things a lot.
Having said that: I agree with some of the doctors that this shouldn't be allowed to overrun their profession.
What are your thoughts on counter-balancing that?
Make it so number one.
... er, ah, am I allowed to say that here?
*shrugs* I dont know, but it made me laugh
its a quarter to midnight and Im going to bed. See you in the morning...
th