Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Fellow DE's: Forming a unified discussion on Combat Droids
Without Sintrosi or his replacement around to help communicate ourconcerns to the Dev's, I think it's pretty important that we try to send a clear signal to theDev'son one very disturbing prospect... Before we can sendan irrefutable message to the Dev's, we need to establish what could be and what absolutely shouldn't be a "combat" droid, among our current chassis.
I will post a follow up, final summary post after this discussion wraps up. Let's be constructive, comprehensive, and thorough. The future of our profession is at stake!
I'm going to list the droids that I believe fall into three general categories.These are my own personal opinions and they're based on Episodes 4, 5, and 6 (since that's where our game setting is at now or will be in the future.) Droidekas, Roger-Roger droids, or IG-88's are food for though once they're available in the game, but since they're not right now, let's discuss them in another thread, another time. This thread is only regarding our current droids in the game right now.
All chassis include their regular and advanced versions.
COMBATTANT (Should contain weapon systems, typically built for war or for very hostile/conflict/hunting enviromnents):
Probots, DZ70's
NON-COMBATTANT (Cannot contain weapon systems, typically built for civilian duties, non-combat or non-hostile environments, technical/repair/medical uses, may be used for non-combat espionage):
MSE's, R5's, R4's, R3's, R2's, Surgicals, Protocols
BORDERLINE / QUESTIONABLE (Might be outfitted for either combattant or non-combattant roles, subject to speculation):
BLL's, LE-Repair's, WED-Treadwells, Power
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We need to discuss this now, so we can send a clear message to the Devs about turning current chassis into combat capable droids! Discuss.
I don't see why a protocol droid couldn't be modified into a combatant. Just stick a gun on its arm and you have a shooter. Same deal with the surgical droid...
And a MSE would make an excellent mobile bomb. Pack it with a bunch of explosives and send it sneaking on in through the crowd - BOOM! A great assassination tool...
In a Star Wars "reality", sure... a Surgical or a Protocol droid could be reprogrammed to be asoulless killing machine, like aTerminator....
I'm mostly referring to this game, ourcurrent established droids,andSWG's limited mechanics, however. Slap a carbine into the hands of a droid with 45 HAM gets you a pretty fragile killer.
I'm raising this disussion because that's the kind of short-sighted nonsense the Developers might just do. Would you want a lowHAM Protocol droid armed with a laser carbine at your side and the devs come back smiling at you saying "Here's your combat droids!" <<???>>
In any case, your comments are welcome.... We need more discussion on this. Would you think it's okay to move Surgicals, Protocols, and MSE'sinto a configurable category. What about R2's? Combat droids or no?
Geez, and I got one-starred for trying to start agood discussion on this?
I agree about ensuring that we do get proper combat droids, but i disagree with your list. I don't think that there should be any droids that are not able to take part in combat at all, but i do think that there needs to be a clear line between the generic Droids and dedicated combat droids.
I think that basicly any generic droid should require a Module to fight ( not to increase damage, but to actually engage in combat )
But yes, we do need to ensure the Devs know that while we may or may not agree on whether generic droids should be able to fight or not, giving a humanoid droid the ability to hold a gun is NOT giving us a combat droid
Please have a look at my thread for some ideas about the Generic Droids combat abilities and some modules and tell me what you think http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=47623
Virtanis wrote:
Geez, and I got one-starred for trying to start agood discussion on this?
Nah, it has to be the one star bandit is all.
I see the Dev's upping HAM on all the droids to go along with this publish. I mean 45 HAM is just plain stupid to begin with. That is one lowly CDEF shot. They raised the HAM of the DZ70, so why not the rest to go along with it?
I am HOPING, they leave the R series out of the combat mix though. I don't see it as a logical step to take on a utlity droid frame. Sure, you could outfit them with zappers, but the R series needs to stay a strictly utility droid. The humanoid droids make sense in being able to carry around some fire power, they do have arms and hands afterall. I am hoping they turn the BLL into a tank. It is useless otherwise.
Before all this combat droid nonsense though, I want to see our stupid bugs fixed that have been ignored since beta.
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Good points. My list is basically a starting point for our discussion, even if the discussion evolves into a combat module idea, like what you were mentioning.
I'm a cynical old nut... which means, I'm expecting the absolute **WORST** from SOE. I'm assuming they're going to turn good old R2 into a cigar chomping, Communist killing, HK-Death machine from Stallone's worst wet dreams. I'm trying to build some consensus in this thread about what current droids should and shouldn't be made, by SOE, into some nightmarish miscarriage of a combat droid.
If anyone wants to modify the list I threw out, by all means.
I just DON'T WANT SOE coming to us with some abomination of an R2 unit lobbing proton grenades at people and beeping: "Go ahead, make my master's day!"
We really need to discuss this.
Okay, I am compelled to write a bit on this issue. First of all, however, let me tell you where I am coming from. When I first heard of this game long, long ago, I was under the impression that as a Droid Engineer, we could basically design droids. By piecing together different component parts, we could build all sorts of droids. Although these droids could be based on existing designs, such as the R-Series Astromech droids, we would have the freedom to alter those designs however we wished. For instance, we could mix and match parts to create "Frankenstien droids". So a "Sinbot*" droid would be unique because I might put different parts together than you put in your droids. I still wish this were the case.
Don't get me wrong, though. If someone wanted to specialize in droids that look and function just like R2-D2 or C3-P0, that would be thier perrogative. But if someone wanted to strip down a frame and mount it with a variety of gadgets that make it an assasin droid, they could do that too.Why do we have assembly line droids when we don't have assembly lines to produce them with? Why are we all making identical droids that happen to be designs by large droid manufacturers (i.e. Cybot Galactica, Industrial Automation)?
Well, Hardware limitations and other considerations --such as development time as a resource limitation --have prevented a robust and complex system. So we end up with "cookie cutter" droids that don't have anything unique about them. This goes well beyond looks. A "Sinbot*" droid is identical to your brandin every way, if we use the same quality raw materials. Different modules? Bah. We only have a couple of useful ones anyway, and they usually all go in to a single droid. I cannot attach two manipulator arms onto my Astromech's chassisso he can dual-wield blasters.
I would like to establish that the current game mechanics are somewhat shortsighted. And I don't think that building a droid however you like goes against the Star Wars spirit. If what they are discussing internally goes more along the lines of what I outlined above, then I would absolutely love having more options for customization. An unassuming Astromech droid (our droids don't currently function in any capacity like in the movies, by the way) could be loaded for Rancor in that cylindrical chassis, and why not?
But given the attention Droids have been given thus far, I cannot hope for much. Which I assume touches on your original post. And you are right. I don't want SOE to bastardize the R-Series. I want to do it myself in game. I want different packages for all SORTS of different jobs, including combat, and even modules that increase HAM by a large margin. If you ask me, I am tired of getting requests for droids that I can't build. I would rather have too many options than not enough options.
My worst nightmare is not that they will do something I won't like. My worst nightmare is that they will not do anything at all. Following close behind my worst nightmare is that they will give weapons to our current droids and stop there. I hope this isn't an either / or situation, and in all honesty, I don't think it is. I am going to hold off on deciding if I like what they are going to do until I know what it is they plan on doing.
Exactly where I am, Sinjen. I don't want there to be a lot of rules about what I can or can't do in my crafting - I want to have the absolute flexibility that the Bio-Engineers now have. For reference, that means that they can build a Kaadu that's just a simple and mild(and even definitively mentally retarded) beast, or create one that's an unholy nightmare with huge HAM, spitting ranged attacks, and both dizzy and knockdown. All it takes is a little effort on their part...
I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to build a MSE into a bomb-droid that does as least as much damage as a rocket launcher. I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to weld guns onto Surgical Droids, give them an armor upgrade, and send them out to fight. And definitely no reason why I can't turn an R2 droid into a resource gatherer that can sample in my place...
Those Droid Engineers who aren't interested in these types of Droids and this kind of flexibility are welcome to their opinions. They really don't have to produce them if they don't want to, just as many Bio-Engineers don't go cutthroat on experimentation to maximize creatures either. But you shouldn't try to persuade the development team to not even let us try. We deserve at least as much creative leeway as the Bio-Engineers have gotten, if not even more due to thehigher "continuity" value of droids in Star Wars.
Ok, One thing I think is that while we should have freedom to build droids any way we see fit, I don't think that the R series and similar droids should be able to match the dedicated combat droids. I think that we can agree that as far as dedicated combat droids go, we'd probably need 3 variaties.
1: Middle of the road combat droid - Basicly a hardier humanoid droid with the ability to hold weapons and light armour ( or medium in the adanced version ) As a droid that anyone can use.
2:Heavy Tank droid - Essentaly something like the current ADV BLL with the ability to attack things and a slightly increased. This would peobably be a CL 10 droid
3: Heavy Hitter droid - Basicly a droid that can do a lot of damage quickly, not very much armour available
We should be able to bulid droids like these as standard combat droids, with the choice of advanced versions ( in the form of an adv model or a different droid with similar role but better stats)
Choice is something that we definitely want when it comes to how we build our droids. I have been searching my server for the different types of droids made that people sell and mostly what I come back with is Advanced Probot with 110 Medical and Food/Chem Crafting Module and as much armor as possible on it. I don't see other DE's selling large storage capacity droids or repair droids, etc.
Combat capability is fine to add to any droid unit, but there should be limitations on how powerful those combat modules can be when attached to the different droid types. No R5 unit is going to be running and dodging blaster fire while returning blast damage bolts. But an LE droid with a blaster would be much more agile and possibly accurate with a gun because of having limbs. If the type of droid was built for offensive combat, it should suck at it but still be able to do it. If we were able to stick a blast cannon on a BLL droid, wouldn't the military get upset at that because it would be mirroring the AT-ST?
There should be a line drawn where top end heavy hitting droids are hard to make (i.e. droidekas) but very effective and where every day common droids (i.e. R2 unit) are easier to make but donthave a good combat rating.
Fix the current bugs. Allow a DE to call forth a second droid. Add in more functionality that includes combat related items. Give more droid chassis to work with.
StrayCat1212 wrote:
Fix the current bugs. Allow a DE to call forth a second droid. Add in more functionality that includes combat related items. Give more droid chassis to work with.
And give Master DEs the ability to call 3 droids - just like Master Creature Handlers.