Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Ok TH, you said to keep trying, so here goes...

EyugenaAseshe
Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:57 pm
#1

Everyone including TH should listen to this post. This is where the future of your DE proffesion lies. Not in combat droids. This is also more starwarsy.
jefmes
Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:58 pm
#2

Thank you for the kind words. I just hope that others feel the same way!




Rodo Doneeta (jefmes)
TCO - Smuggler - Chilastra
Owner of: Rodo's Automatons, Tsarin, Talus
Saving a respec to go home to Droid Engineering...

...when it's more useful!
Raawuuf
Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:01 pm
#3

i wholeheartedly agree!!!!!!!!


all of the debating and infighting has got to STOP! it is getting us nowhere!!!


i feel bad for for our corespondant, he must be going insane by now


good post jefmes!!!



------------------


Raawuuf


Master DE / Master Artisan / Gunsmith / Architect / Merchant / Cannon Fodder


Bloodfin


shop located in the valley NE of Mos Entha on Tatooine


HECK! if all else fails let players BE droids!!!!



jefmes
Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:27 am
#4

















Alright, as a long time SWG Droid Engineer and a long time dev boarder, I know the only way things get done is to lay it all out step by step and break it down point by point. (I apologize for the formatting - the boards decided my initial post had illegal characters and turned my formatting into this - I think it's still readable though...why the HECK do I not have "permission to post HTML"???)


Here are the current criteria that TH has given to us:


"For those that want to keep at it, the important thing to remember is that any proposal has to include the following design criteria if they are going to be considered by the devs:


- Any player can handle any pet or droid as long as its CL 10 or below.


- Any pet/droid above level 10 has to have a significant skill point/experience point expenditure.


- Reference CH's and the fact they have to spend points for an entire profession to get those benefits.


- Factions pets (which could be some droids) will be added at a later date."


Although it may be frustrating to those who wanted droids to replace their lost uber-CH pets, I believe these are sound principles to help the devs balance the game correctly. We also have the following criteria that I believe MOST Droid Engineers agree on:


- A Droid Engineer wishes to create droids that ALL players have access to. We mostly consider droids entitys upon themselves, and unlike pets the user does not and SHOULD not have to have special skills to handle them - THIS IS THE REASON A DROID HANDLING PROFESSION IS NOT DESIRED.


- Droid Engineers MAINLY prefer to stay a crafting profession, whose focus is on utility, special functionality, and convienience.


- Droid Engineers want more combat droids! But we also want more crafting droids, roaming droid vendors, entertainment droids, translator droids, etc.


Now obviously the desire of the player community, and the DEs specifically, to have better combat droids is in direct conflict with item number one of TH's criteria list. A solution must be created and thus far from the dev team we have:


- A Droid Handler Profession - NO ONE WANTS THIS. It is contrary to our first DE criteria, creates a sole niche market for us that is dependant on others dumping other professions to pick up (i.e. Bio-Engineers, which I believe is still tied too closely and TOO dependant on CHs).


- A Droid Handling Branch off of the current DE tree - This also I believe to be undesired. For months DEs have wanted FIXES and VARIETY added to what we already invest in. Another branch (or profession for that matter) makes an already skill-point strapped profession more limited.


I don't feel that either of these presented solutions are what we've been wanting all this time, I think that's clear.


An alternative that has been presented (but mainly shot down) is a Droid Certification system integrated into the current DE tree. I disagree with this as well because it WILL ultimately make DEs they "metallic CHs" as I saw one poster mention.


The problem AS I SEE IT, is that those wanting combat droids are not considering the balance issues carefully enough, and in another post of mine I proposed doing the following:


- Make higher level combat droids expensive and high maintenance


- Keep the max CL level moderate - no higher than CL 25-30 perhaps


- Tie them to the GCW


TH, you responded that those don't work because of balancing issues, and now that the Dev Tracker is working and I saw your criteria, I understand what you meant However, I believe the 2nd and 3rd are workable. So here's where I'm laying it out, and thank you to the "heretic" out there who posted something similar in the first place:


- Combat droids cannot unbalance combat systems and must hold to the established CL 10 criteria. FORGET MORE ADVANCED COMBAT DROIDS. . Instead of focusing on tougher droids let's focus on:


* Droids with different chassis (yes, get those Droidekas craftable!)


* Focus on different kinds of attacks with different kinds of damage.


- We need to use the systems that already exist, and adding professions or a whole new cert system is going to increase coding time substantially. I'm tired of waiting too, and all this time I've been more interesting in increased functionality rather than super-droids.


- Tie advanced droids to the GCW and put them under the same restrictions as AT-STs. They are already in the game, and I'm sure someone can tell me what CL they are - I'm sure they're over CL 10. This maintains droid autonomy and gives something for the Rebels to get with their faction points on par or slightly below the abilites of an AT-ST (and Imperials could use them too of course!).


- Keep droids the crafting profession that they are and add:


* More chassis


- Make certain chassis better suited for certain functions (don't let mouse droids be as good of a medic as a Surgical droid is the command example)


* More modules


* Extend functionality


- There was once mention of using Power Droids to power harvesters, what of that plan?


- Give BLLs something to do!


- Let Treadwell and R-series droids repair vehicles


- Entertainer droids for light shows and entertainment bonuses


- Vendor droids for wandering vendors


- Be creative! I know more great ideas have come out of this community that can mostly be added through modules!


- For the future, give us swappable modules and sockets using Master Droid Engineer special mods.


* DEs can only swap the modules - making them more useful in the field.


* Modules with special one time uses perhaps for performing certain tasks (off the top of my head, a charge based slicing module to assist Smugglers perhaps)


That's about all I can drudge up at the moment. So in short, I say we forget the super combat droids we may have wanted in the past, focus on CL 10 droids with varying weapony, damage types, and possibly group enhancements. Get DE back to its roots and focus on cool utility bases functions that make people think, "Wow, it'd be great if I had a droid to help me with ________!" The basic combat droids we would be selling would be sold for looks based on personal preference (so we can say more than, "Gee, I can make you a Probot...") and the type of damage they'll be dealing out. With the combat re-balancing going on, it seems to be that greater emphasis is coming back to Holocron's basic "rock-paper-scissors" principles so that everything has some sort of couter. Let combat droids be a part of that.


Thanks to anyone who read this far - I know I'm just repeating what many of you have said, but perhaps it will help some people to understand presented in this fashion.





Rodo Doneeta (jefmes)
TCO - Smuggler - Chilastra
Owner of: Rodo's Automatons, Tsarin, Talus
Saving a respec to go home to Droid Engineering...

...when it's more useful!
Sketh
Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:40 am
#5

Good post!



______________________________________

Sketh Rial - Acting CEO CGZ Enterprises - Trade Minister for Riverveil
Master Droid Engineer - Master Artisan - Propagandist - Novice Carboneer
Visit Sketh's House of Droids (Tent) -3814, -1683 Riverveil, Corellia, Chilastra
Droid Owner's Manual - Version 4
R0ZM4N
Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:30 am
#6

/utterlyagree



Excellent post jefmes!







...From the desk of Colonel Cass L'Arcana...
Imperial Armed Forces | Distinction & Honour
spearbearer
Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:35 am
#7

Good post.
While having a few new, and maybe better, combat droids would be nice, I too can't realy understand why almost all of the discussion is focused on them.
More everyday droids, usefull for every profession should be the number one priority.



Icatipev IonoraiMaster Chief Droid Engineer
Federal Ore and Petrochemical Mining Corporation
Vendor located on Corellia at -2187 -4460


"I will tell you this, Droids (and DE's) are going to be the MAIN feature for the January publish. We will be fixing alot of things and adding combat droids.Yes, talk is cheap." - JustG - 11/25/2003
Ophistes
Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:03 am
#8

More functionality and less bugs (yes, make fixing the bugs and non-functionalities of the existing crap a top priority!).


Functionality ideas:

* Slicing aid (hello, you put up a picture of a R2 slicing a terminal on the Droid Invasion page!)

* Harvester 'Powerups' (droid adds to the hopper, decreases maintenance, decreases production time of a factory, whatever...). The Treadwell would fit in nicely here - Luke used one on Tatooine on the farm of his uncle. Could even decay while in use and open a *repeat market like for weapon powerups* GASP.

* there must be other ways to make droids usefull for crafters than acting as a crafting station only. What about adding a +10 bonus to assembly for R4s, +10 to experimentation for R2s and +10 on both for R3s (class that gets the bonus determined on final assembly). This would also stress the role of astromechs.

* FX-7 medical assistant droids that could actually increase the regeneration rate of damage or wounds when around in a camp.

* Survyeing aids (some kind of probe droids) that tell you the general direction of the closest resource density above 10 for a given resource (similar to ranger tracking on skill level I, usable by Artisans only).

* Imperial Mark IV sentry Droids (usable by overt imperials only) - detect covert rebels without making them overt.

* Salvage Droids to disassemble all the junk you find for random resources from the current pool of active resources


And this is just spontaneous and from the top of my head. Most of it should be pretty simple and straightforward as the mechanisms already exist.



Ophistes Ceimined= Chef and Musician =
= The singing frog =
"I suppose you're entitled to your own delusions." --Threepio



SWhitestar
Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:07 am
#9

great post




Sheridan Whitestar
W* Droid Workshop

Chimaera - European Server - MASTER DROID ENGINEER

"We seem to be made to suffer. It's our lot in life" - C3PO

dpbad
Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:25 am
#10

/agree


Bravo, Jefmes on a well thought out post and I hope that Thunderheart and the other Devs consider it.



Arkin' Gethae
Artisan 4/4/4/4
Droid Engineer 0/0/0/1
Marksman 1/0/0/1
Scout 1/0/0/1

Falling asleep February 3, 2004 . . . and death following soon.
Korbus
Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:06 am
#11

/sign agree


Fantastic post.







Arkane
Master Weaponsmith / Droid Engineer
Vector Industries CEO
Hrafnstadt, Naboo (2166, 3807)
GinazResser
Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:51 am
#12

Is still want to be able to make combat droids. Making the droids have more functions is great too, but the main reason I took up DE just recently was to make combat droids. My DE is a second account and if the combat droids aren't any good then I'll be canceling that account. SOE promised comabt droids. Thats my point. Maybe they should have made it more clear when they first told us about them what they're plans were. If I had known combat droids weren't going to be as good as advertised then I would never had gotten the other account.

LordMaxx
Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:56 am
#13

I agree...keep DE as crafting only...and spread Droid Handling points throughout the combat classes...essentially anyone can have a CL10 droid...but at Novice marksman you get level +2 at specialist cl+4 at novice elite cl + something etc etc.... that way you can only get the higher level droids by being a higher level fighter. And permadeath sounds fine to me..that way you geta tank, but its not quite as good as if you were a CH who has to devote skill points to get their tanks. good ideas in this post.



Maxx Wolfe
"I...I...I...I...Im not your steppin' stone!" - The Monkees
Leader of Team Desert Eagle and Founder of PATGWNIWNU a offshoot of RATGWNIWNU!
Chilastra/Valcyn/TC
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