Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: In response to The Plan
This is not what DE needs, sure some of the changes are good, but DE does not need combat certs. We need something unique to bring to the game, give us combat droids, and we become a replacement CH, give us droids that heal, and we become replacement medics. We should NOT be forced in to replicating other players jobs, we should have a unique place, where our droids add functionality that is currently either not possible, or not feesible. The first thing that comes to my mind, and it really would add a "star-warsy" feel to the game is protocol droids, and languages. This would allow them to serve a unique purpose, and fix a useless system. I see nothing about this. Every other artisan class gets unique items that are needed, or bring something diffrent to the game.(Well except maybe chef :0). We do not.
The plan is just wrong, it's shifting Droid *engineer* from a crafting class to a sorta CH class. There will only be one combat pet out, so the choice of it being a CH pet or a DE droid will be just cosmetic, or whatever flavor of the month will be.
We don't need more combat droids, probots sell quite well. We do need lots of more utility droids, so far only medics and in a lesser way crafters want our droids (and BH but they are forced to use them, and once they finish their investigation line, they pretty can pretty much forget about droids). Having combat pets with different graphics than CH pets will not make us a different profession. Having lots of utility droids will. That's what I want, not droidekas that only I can use.
I'm sorry, but in my opinion, this "plan" just plain sucks, and on almost every level.
DE is a crafting profession, not combat, what is the advantage to trying to turn DE into "poormans CH"?
MSE droids as slow guided missiles... Umm, since you only get one pet out as a non CH (OK, maybe DE's would get more as well) you'd get to fire off one little stupid bot, then what? In the meanwhile, with any weapon, you could have actually "hurt" something fairly significantly, and let's face it, you KNOW they won't let that MSE droid do much damage, so this is pointless. If the MSE could do real damage, it would be way overpowered in PvP, and if it can't, it's going to be useless in PvM, so all in all, it sounds aweful useless to me.
Power Droids for powering equipment. Well, first I doubt anyone is selling Power Droids cheap, and even if they are, considering the proposed limit of "1" pet out at a time, I don't see many wanting to have that one pet they can have be a Power Droid hooked up to a harvestor somewhere. Let alone the even more obvious fact, that power is CHEAP, and the Droids aren't... Again, I see zero gain to this proposal.
The proposals for Medical Droids come into the same category for me. How many of you know that the Med Center in every town auto heals you? For those who did know this, how many of you know that the stupid little novice scout camps do the exact same thing? Yes, it's slow, so it's definately not competition to an actual Doctor, but if they added that SAME ability to aSurgical Droid, then the thing would have a use. Have a Surgical Droid in a group, and watch your wounds very slowly vanish, just like they do while your sitting in a Med Center, or a Camp. This would make people want to buy them, while not removing any of the current usefulness of the Medical professions in the game. Having that Droid dispense some damage healing would be a definate plus as well, but let's again face it, if it's anything "too" useful, the Medical professions in this game would throw fits, and since they ARE our better customers, upsetting them is not a wise thing to do.
Vorgus on Bria
> Power Droids for powering equipment. Well, first I doubt anyone is selling Power Droids cheap, and even if > they are, considering the proposed limit of "1" pet out at a time, I don't see many wanting to have that one >pet they can have be a Power Droid hooked up to a harvestor somewhere. Let alone the even more >obvious fact, that power is CHEAP, and the Droids aren't... Again, I see zero gain to this proposal.
Well, as I see it- once the power droid attaches its self to the machinery, its no longer a pet droid but part of the machinery. Also, if you compare the cost of maintance on the extractor, and the generator (particularly those solars) than the fact there is a slight increase in just the extractor makes it more economical deal (no longer burning your cred-sticks at both ends.) Of course, if there is a huge demand for these power droids - those who sell more inexpensive-ly will reap more customers.
If the mods are reading this, I'd also like to propse a way for a Power Droid to recharge/re-power other droids (that is of course, of DE's have the ability to have more than one droid out at a time). Honestly, one Copmbat droid out is fine (I enjoy my probot, thank you). But I'd like to see the Utility Droids be able to be out on a less limited basis- like of the Tredwell was actually able to perform maintance (hook IT up to an extractor or something, to reduce the maintanece cost?). Your repair droids reparing your droids (not to mention your hurting probot)- the power droids recharging them....I could see a delightful little system being set up here.
Well, thats my two credits....now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to see if I can hook my Tredwell and Power Droid up to my Chemical Extractors now =).
Graeme wrote:
Please explain exactly what purpose your proposed protocol droids would fill. I understand a need for tanks, damage, healing, and crafting. I don't see what exactly you want your droids to accomplish.
Ok, I assumed that everyone who read this would know about it but:
There are currently 2 valid options (IMHO) to fix the langauage problem, which is that everyone knows every language, making the language system useless.
Option 1:
Make it so that people can only know X languages, and allow protocol droids to translate the rest of them, by having language modules, or a module installed.
Option 2:
Option 1, but instead of limiting force languages to cost Skill Points, which are very valuable.
And on a side note, please re read my post, Im not quite sure you understood what I was getting at. We should not be a copy, or a mix of copies, of skills that other classes have, we should server a unique, and useful, purpose in the game.
With all due respect to everyone on this thread, none of this is viable or what DE needs to do. You're all starting to lose sight of the fact that this is a game.
I'm sure the very small number of people interested in RPing would find this immersing, but the vast majority of the Players would find the inability to understand all of their fellow Players easily incredibly annoying. People do not want to have to buy something just so they can talk to their friends, or complete a trade. They just want to talk to them.
The Niche that DE needs to fill is a very, very, complicated one.
With the implementation of Pets, they've created a situation where to play the game to an effective level one must have Pets. What I mean is, the content on the higher level Planets must be designed with stats and damage outputs that anticipate the Player attacking it utilizing a Pet. Failure to do so creates a situation where a single class is able to surf through the entire game without ever facing any consequences.
Their response, which is extremely incorrect, is to try to nerf CH and Faction Pets to the point where they are no longer of any use at all, because of restrictions. Though this seems good on the face, it is in fact game-killing.
It fails to account for the skewing of content difficulty to account for Player + Pet. Though restrictions will now make it impossible for any but the CH to have an effective Pet, Content remains at the Difficulty levels requiring that pet to proceed. Thus locking out all but CHs from advanced Level content. This in turn will even more dramatically skew the numbers of people training CH, as it becomes the only way to procceed.
The correct approach is DE. In bold, because it took so long to get here. DE should have had Chasis added to it to give the average Player the ability to purchase and maintain a Robotic Pet equivalent at least to the Mid-Range to Upper-low end CH pets. This method addresses the fact that by having pets they become a requirement to play, it remains in theme with the setting, and allows for further support of Crafting proffessions and Money Sinks. By following this path, SWGs becomes a better game.
And that my friends, is where DE needs to go. That is our unique function. The ones that provide the other classes the ability to following proffessions they truly desire and find interesting without being forced to comprimise to participate in higher level content.
Therearentan wrote:And that my friends, is where DE needs to go. That is our unique function. The ones that provide the other classes the ability to following proffessions they truly desire and find interesting without being forced to comprimise to participate in higher level content.
Just a question, you are for giving people Droid pets, equal to mid level CH pets now, for no skill points? CH's would die, quickly, why should I waste my skill points on CH when I can just get a droid to do the same thing for a few credits. Skill points are MUCH more important than money in this game. We DO NOT need to be a replacement for a CH, nor a medic.
Semi Off topic, but in MMO's there are classes that are needed for higher level content, this is the way it should be, it should not however be possible for one class to dominate the high end of the game, my fix would include making CH's to master scout, and to be effective at the high end of the game, also mastering CH, and significantly lower pet damage. This would thus create a "tanking" class of CH's, Pets would be meatshields, that would be the CH's job, and they would HAVE to have help to kill anything. The high end of the game is supposed to force you to work with others. Your solution is to make everyone uber, and everything in the game soloable, not by some, but by ALL.
MonkeysRMe wrote:
Therearentan wrote:
And that my friends, is where DE needs to go. That is our unique function. The ones that provide the other classes the ability to following proffessions they truly desire and find interesting without being forced to comprimise to participate in higher level content.
Just a question, you are for giving people Droid pets, equal to mid level CH pets now, for no skill points? CH's would die, quickly, why should I waste my skill points on CH when I can just get a droid to do the same thing for a few credits. Skill points are MUCH more important than money in this game. We DO NOT need to be a replacement for a CH, nor a medic.
Semi Off topic, but in MMO's there are classes that are needed for higher level content, this is the way it should be, it should not however be possible for one class to dominate the high end of the game, my fix would include making CH's to master scout, and to be effective at the high end of the game, also mastering CH, and significantly lower pet damage. This would thus create a "tanking" class of CH's, Pets would be meatshields, that would be the CH's job, and they would HAVE to have help to kill anything. The high end of the game is supposed to force you to work with others. Your solution is to make everyone uber, and everything in the game soloable, not by some, but by ALL.
Yes. Exactly. Because the game is at a point now where there are two options. Be a CH or cancel. Let me tell you a story to illustrate my point.
Asheron's Call faced the exact same issue. Except in Asheron's Call it was that Mages were able to reduce damage taken to 0-2, and were able to deal damage that ignoredArmor, but was affected by resistance which was tied to armor by a multiplier. This resulted over the period of a year, in the creation of High-end content that had to assume the Player attacking it would be a mage. Since Mages ignored armor, and since the engine had finite limits to how far resistances could be taken, Armor and regeneration had to be cranked to levels which resulted in Ranged and Melee Players were unable to kill the new creatures. The game had devolved to a point where the only playable class was a Mage. It took them 12 months and half of their Players quitting before the resolved the situation.
That is where SWGs stands now. For a Player without a CH Pet, there isn't any way for him/her to tackle high end content. He/She is left out. Unable to participate. He becomes frustrated and quits.
Doubt me? Go to Lok, or Dath, or Dant, or End. Even a fair amount of Tat. A Player without CH cannot kill a significant number, possibly even all, creatures on those Planets despite being a Master with the best weapon possible. Even this months quests bears testimony to how Pet Skewed the game is, the Imperial Quest is impossible to complete without some form of Pets, as the final targets are in a large pack that incaps the Player in moments.
As to Forced Grouping, which is exactly what you are suggesting, it is a hold over from 1st Generation MMOs which most players dislike if not outright despise. The recent Poll, held here on these very boards, bore out proof of that. With well over 50% of the responses strongly Solo, and another significant amount(25%?) only wishing to group some of the time.
The time of Class and Job based MMO play is well over. As both SWGs and AC2 bear testimony to. Players do *not* want to be forced into spending ridiculous amounts of time searching for a group to join, to find out they dislike the other Players, or have a critical group member log 30 minutes later, etc.
Nor do MMOs require such holdovers any longer. The MMO part of these types of games is well achieved these days via Clan,Economy, and Free Will. There are also different, better approaches to providing areas for those who want to group to do so and find a hefty challenge. Again, I call upon the AC of today for an example, where in one high-level area of the game the spawns are sufficient thick enough and friendly enough that it takes a sizeable group to hunt there effectively. The reward? Significantly better experience and better odds of finding "Rare" items. But the key is, it's not something that can't be fought somewhere else, and thus the Solo only Players aren't left out as they can aquire/achieve similiar results at a slower pace.
So, Yes. I'm stating that without making DE the Pet Provider to the Average Joe without investment within DE or CH, SWGs is dead. Yes dead. The Skills payment would be the levels at which the Player rates Certification to use the droid. He does not need to pay for the ability to use the Pet, as the other option is an even higher percentage of the population becoming a CH. I can't stress this enough, it is now mandatory to have a Pet. You cannot survive the Advanced Planets without one, everything that facilitated doing that was changed to address the explosion of Pets. For example, a great number of Advanced Planet critters went from being Non-Social and Non-Aggro to Social and Aggro, like Lok's Nym's and Droidekas which are now very social and some of the Droideka will agro from a full 128m away.
Why is it dead? Because the Players don't want to be locked out of a full 40% of the game. They don't want to be locked out of the Monthly Quests.
Am I exagerating? I don't think so. I don't know about your server, but Mine is Radiant. On Radiant a very large number of Harvesters are burning away, vendors are empty except for the few Masters who achieved prominence, The formerly bustling cities of Bestine, Coronet, Moenia, Kadaara, and Mos Eisely are mostly empty. Only Anchorhead and Theed show some congregation, and that's even extremely thin. Populations on the high level Planets are extremely sparse, Some like Yavin are completely empty. Finding an open vendor for a Chef, Architect, Tailor, Bio-Engineer, or Medic isimpossible. Houses are disappearing on a daily basis. Please, Take an open minded look at your servers, tell me if you aren't seeing it emptying as well.
And BTW, I do apologize if I sound Arrogant, Opinionated, or Demeaning. I've spent the last 2 years posting on the VN boards, and if you've ever posted there, you understand why I take aggressive approaches to posting.
Well, I think combat droids would be a lot of fun. However, in regard to the poster's opinion, how would Protocol Droids revive our profession? You mention languages, but can you be more specific as to what you envision?
Wolfing wrote:
The plan is just wrong, it's shifting Droid *engineer* from a crafting class to a sorta CH class. There will only be one combat pet out, so the choice of it being a CH pet or a DE droid will be just cosmetic, or whatever flavor of the month will be.
All this means is that some DEs will be in it for combat, and some will be in it for crafting. How does one adversely affect the other? They both can add to the profession.
To amplify on what an earlier post said so well, was the game has been reworked to "require" pets, since everyone having them destroyed the PvE balance.
The problem in reality is fairly simple, players in this game, even at high levels CAN NOT TANK. This was a major mistake on the developers end, sure, as a player reaches higher levels, they can put out a massive amount of damage, but thier ability to tank just doesn't improve all that much. Fully buffed, a player has "maybe" 3 times the HP they had the day they started the game, and even with great armor, the supposed defenses they have to avoid damage simply don't work well enough.
I don't care if you have a group of 20, exactly which player do you have in that group, that wants to go tank a Krayt Dragon themselves? Even if the group has a few combat medics in it (if all it has is doctors, your already in a world of hurt, with the range problem) with all the timeing issue's this game has with actually fireing off a heal when you want it too, whoever you talk into tanking, doesn't have the best survival odds. Without powerful pets, the game also has no viable crowd control. The best trap in the game, will only stop a mob (creature type only while we are at it) for a few short seconds, and Warning Shot is almost useless in a group, since if anyone else hits the monster, it will immediately attack again.
Whether or not the tank role get's filled by a CH monster, or a DE Droid, it really make little difference, the bottom line will remain the same. Unless players get the ability to effectively tank the higher level mobs themselves, we will be FORCED to doing whatever it takes to get any tank's the game has to offer.
Vorgus on Bria
Sorry, but this is the FIRST I have heard about any language problem, and I have been playing since day one. I have never heard anyone other than maybe the most hard core roleplayers suggest that the language system be changed from what it is. For that matter, other than Wookie there is no reason to know any of the other languages, because everyone else speaks basic.
People keep talking about building droids that fill a need, but other than combat, healing, and crafting, which they are not describing any needs that a droid could fill. Until someone can show the developers a real need for some other kind of droid, we will continue to get the ones that they already see a need for.