Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Confusion about the role of DE in SWG
Hi all,
I don't usually post much. And when I do, I get very little attention. But, I've been a DE for quite a while, and I've been following these threads pretty much everyday since I started playing in July.
With that in mind, I would have to say that based on the majority of posts regarding the recently announced "DE Plan", I'm alittle confused as to what DE's think their role is in the SWG Universe. The consensus seems to be that DE's should constantly be compared to CH's. You see it all over the forum, people are dissapointed that there is no droid that can compete with a rancor, or that DE's can't have an army of droids out at once.
It's my opinion that these two classes should be as separate and unique as possible. I don't want to be a CH that only handles droids. I want to be a droid engineer, a crafter, a builder, an engineer. If you want CH abilities, then it's my opinion that you should becomea CH.
Droids have played a very large role in the Star Wars universe. But in the time frame that SWG takes place, the role played by most droids is a Support\Utility role. Droids capable of effective combat are extremely rare in this time period. So the arguments that say Bigger Better Combat Droids would make this game more "star warsy" are a bit stretched, I think. (Granted, dozens of Rancors in the streets isn't exactly "star warsy" either, but that's a CH issue, not a DE issue.)
I didn't start this thread to bash anyone or get flamed. I'm just asking a simple question (with some of my own opinion added along side). What do my fellow DE's seriously feel is the role they should be playing in the SWG universe?
-Ackoma Omipie
Master Droid Engineer - Naboo, Valcyn
duncje wrote:
I think the idea of DE-only droids is terrible. If we, as DEs are solely able to create, heal, fix, and use our own products, the profession will not go very far before people start screaming for the nerf bat. Even a CH needs pet stims, etc. to heal their pets. We need to be engineers, not "handlers", and craft things that (potentially) everyone can use.
I agree for the most part. I don't necessarily have a problem with the existence of aDE only droid. I just think that maybe a DE only COMBAT droid is not necessary. But I do agree, we should be treated primarily as crafters, not Droid Handlers.
-Ackoma Omipie
Master Droid Engineer, Naboo, Valcyn
And if someone really wants to be both a droid engineer and still have overpowered pets, you can become a master DE and master CH, with 52 skillpoints left at that.
To add to your statement of combat droids not being prevalent in this time period, thats because imperial laws keep strict regulations on combat droids. basically only imperial organizations are allowed to create/use droids that are combat capable and all other droids are equipped with LPP (life preservation programming) hardwired into them. they are not able to willingly harm any sentient life, and if they do it causes serious programming conflics and they will shut down (and usually suffer sever circuit damage).
Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
I see the role of the DE in SWG to be to provide droids to assist others in various tasks. I think droids should be able to assist in structure management by providing a listing of all structures under a player's control and give the status of each. I'd like to see droids that can do a galactic scan for resources - tell what resources exist on every planet. You would still have to go there and find the concentrations, but it would waste less time and money planet hopping to see what is available. And, yes, I think droids should be able to help out in combat situations. Note - "help out" is the key thing here. I don't think it should be just standing back and having a droid taking out lairs for you. Droids should be part of a combat strategy, not the strategy itself.
I think droids should each have a specific function rather than being "skins" for modular functionality.
In terms of combat droids, I believe that if we had at least 1(probot is not a decent combat droid). The fact that Droidekas are on lok and seen next to DE trainers is insulting. In terms of the support role that you mention we are supposed to fill, I would tend to argue. Going by the movies and books.... most droids tend to replace not support. Look at any medical uses in these contexts.... you always see the 2-1B acting alone... not taking orders from some doctor(Luke's hand, the Bacta(sic) tank etc.). These androids have artificial intelligence as well as command interprters.
But, we all know that SOE will never have us replacing PCs. Understandable. So in terms of support - the so called "DE Plan" does not really add much to this. There have been so many great ideas put into these forums, and to see this "Plan" that does not address true support and does not address fixing anything we currently have is ridiculous.
Item#1 - Combat Droids - adding modules to existing droid chasis to give them fighting abilities.
Okay, so are we going to gun wielding 3PO's? Stupidest thing i have ever heard.
Item #2 - Having more than 1 droid out at a time.
Why shouldn't we be able to have as many as we can store out? Once again a droid is a form of an AI it is not like a dog. The abilities are preprogrammed in. As long as you have power and can keep up on maintenance, it should be able to be used.
Item #3 - Droid Repair-What is planned is to Make Repair Droids work similarly to current pet healing standards.
Um, no these are not pets in the CH fashion. They are Motive sensors and such. Would be much better if components actual broke on droids wehn they sustained heavy damage. Then the DE himself would fix them for players. Much like a mechanic for a car.
Misc things mentioned in the plan:
The medical droid role seems to be decent as does the role of the power droid on harvesters all though alot of people that specialize in whole sale power supply will be pissed.
MSE bomb droids - are you kidding me?
Also, if you have been reading through the forums..... I have seen a definite unclearness from the devs on where our professions needs to go. I have seen at times it mentioned that functionality would move to being chasis specific and then seen it mentioned that things would stay module specific. Lets have some clarity.
Also, I can currently craft 82(might be off by 1 or 2) items in the Droid category of the crafting tool. And now more modules are being added. It is hard enough to explain to a customer all of there options(and there are alot), I often have to send them to Yak's guide, (very sad that you have to send the customer out of game). Now SOE is planning on putting more modules in the system..... if you are gonna do that SOE- UPDATE THE GAME MANUAL SO PLAYERS CAN SEE A DEFINITIVE ANSWER ON WHAT EVERYTHING DOES!!!
Im done ranting,
Wigs
Master Droid Engineer
Master Artisan
Pistoleer
Well, I'm fairly convinced that it didn't matter what was actually presented in "the Plan", it was going to get bashed anyway. I think, however that the combat modules are a direct response to a vast majority of posts in this thread of people asking for better combat droids. Which syas to me that the devs are at least making an effort to give us what we ask for. The problem I see here is that there seems to be two camps in the DE category: Those DE's that want to craft useful droids to sell and help out with menial tasks. And those DE's that want to build uber combat droids to rival high level CH pets and go solo some high level mobs.
These are two distinct ways of thinking where the DE profession should head, and I feel that the devs are going to bring it to wherever the majority seem to want it to go. This is why I asked the question at the beginning of this thread. I agree, a droid with some combat capability better than the current probot would be nice, but I don't think the focus of the profession should be combat, or even the ability to make a good combat droid, yet that seems to be everyone's #1 complaint with regards to the plan.
I didn't start this thread to help bash the DE Plan, I started it because I feel that the direction of the DE profession is going to be largely steered by US, the DE's. The fact that there has been no clarity provided by the devs as to the future of the profession, I think, reinforces this.
Any other opinions?
-Ackoma Omipie
Master Droid Engineer - Naboo, Valcyn
I think DEs should remain primarily a crafting class. Thus, we need better combat and service droids to sell.
However, I have no problem with DEs also being able to kick butt. There is lots of butt being kicked by droids in the movies. I agree that this should be implemented to prclude johnny-come-lately DEs that only want combat droids.
Let non-DEs have good combat droids. Let MDEs have great combat droids worthy of a very worthy profession. With CHs running around with lvl 50 pets AND mounts, SWG is not gonna go off teh depe end when MDEs have droidikas with 9700 HAM.
Implemented so, crafters can remain crafters, and Combat DEs can elect to be combat DEs. Actually kick as droids for MDEs helps you be a better crafter -- safety in harvestor runs and less need for combat skills.
This is an empire divided. And DEs need to at least be able to elect to fight the good (or evil) fight with tech skills and droids.
You know what is sad?
If a *SINGLE* DE developer took the time and effort to read this forum *ONCE* per *WEEK* or actually *PLAYED* a DE...
.. then you people wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Sorry to break it to you.. but the "devs" for DE are clearly the same "devs" for CH. I've been following these forums for months mostly as an outside observer and at no time did I get the feeling that the majority of people in this forum wanted combat droids in order to complete with combat classes.
My jaw literally dropped when I read about "MSE bombs" instead of fixes to all the known bugs. You've been having that GSP bug for months and it wasn't even mentioned!
You *SHOULD* have had low level combat droids like the ones in Episode I... and people should have been running around with them ... not COWARDLY GURRECKS and MOUNTAIN KREVOLS.
Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable.
I have to agree with Xygnis on this one. There are two major schools of thought on what the DE profession should be: Metallic-based CH, or crafting profession. And furthermore, the discussion there goes even deeper with the "Is CH a combat class or not?" discussion.
Maybe we all need to step back and ask ourselves a couple of fundamental questions. Questions like:
1) If you had to choose between Droids that could fight and droids that could do EVERYTHING BUT fight (actively heal players and pets, manage harvesters, repair/power other droids, translate languages, etc.), which would you choose?
2) If you had to choose between fixing all the bugs currently present (including making things that work but are worthless have an actual value) versus adding [some|much|tons of] new DE content that is likely to be as buggy/partially questionably worthwhile as what already exists but still work "somewhat", which would you prefer?
Before you go answering either of these questions, let me frame them a bit for you. Forget about CHs and what they can train/call/sell. Forget about future space expansions. Forget about what the devs have in mind based on TH's report to us. Forget about whether or not our developers are the primary CH developers as well and we're just afterthoughts. Forget about all that other stuff for just a few minutes and focus on what is the here and now for Droid Engineering. Why forget all this other stuff? Well, important as it is to the decision process, it also colors our decisions unfairly and very much un-uniformly. Some DEs are insanely jealous of CHs, others don't see what the big deal is. Some feel the devs don't care about us, others believe they do and that ours is coming.
So for the moment, let's just throw all that extra baggage away for a few minutes and focus on some very basic, core, fundamental questions and answer them. I have a feeling that the truth about what we perceive and how we perceive it will become a lot clearer if we separate the ancilliary issues (what we have versus what others have) from the core issues (what we make of what we have).
At the risk of being viewed as inflamatory, let me add that I realize that the movies had both fighting and non-fighting droids. I realize that CHs can call pets that could tear the strongest probot to pieces in seconds. I realize that an Imperial AT-ST would win against a Droideka 99 times out of 100. I'm a Master DE. I know the pains and problems we've gone through. I remember Beta 2 and 3. I realize that some of our stuff actually does work (now) and other stuff, while working, is almost entirely worthless (Data Storage or Binary Load Lifters, for examples). I get all that.
However just saying "Well so-and-so profession has X so we should have Y" doesn't cut the mustard. That's not a reason, that's a complaint based on a point of view that is clearly not shared by the developers. This is not a **edit**-for-tat environment we live in. The reason there are 30+ professions is so that we can do what we want. They made them different with different advantages and disadvantages andbenefits and drawbacks on purpose. There's a reason we only have 250 skill points, people. I'll stop short of saying "If you don't like it, go be a CH" as that doesn't solve anything either. For every one of those "Well they can do this..." comments, I can probably think of a DE-specific thing to counter it with. Does that mean you and I place the same value on those two things? Aha...Therein lies the problem!
For me, I am a DE because I want to build droids. Plain and simple. Whether they can EVER fight respectably like a graul or not is a gravy issue for me. The meat is making R2-D2. The meat is watching C-3PO do that funny tilting thing he does and know that I made him! Does that mean I wouldn't LOVE a droideka of my very own? Of course I would. But the way I see it, if I wanted to solo or be a combat-based character, I should be focusing on one of the many fighting professions instead of, or in addition to DE. I am not against seeing change come to the DE profession, yet at the same time I can also honestly say that I am not adimant that it should change significantly either. I guess I am asking my fellow DEs who feel that change is not only mandatory, it's required to make DE playable to take a more general big-picture view of the situation before commenting on how shafted we are or are not.
This is plainly not the Star Wars Universe. This is a game based loosely on it. The vast majority of the people playing this game don't care, people. They would just as soon play brand-X MMORGP for all they really care.
I make crafting stations and really bad medical assistants. I make probots that take more time and trouble than they are worth to build and maintain. I make alledgedly cool bounty hunter droids that I will never see actually work, and can never myself enjoy. I make droids that have so little storage capacity that I wonder why anyone would pay what I charge to make them.
Droids will never do what I envisioned them doing when I joined this train wreck. They still, four months into the live game, don't even work as advertised.
Yes, I am confused too. Why are we even in the game?
To survive in this game we need to be able to protect ourselves, to play the game we need to be able to protect ourselves, to have fun runing missions require us to kill the big bad mobs out there. I do not want to be limited to being a crafter, i want too be able to run missions, but i want to run them useing the droids i build! I bought this game for this reason. i spent most of my skill points in obtaining MDE so i could builb combat droids! I never wanted to have to sit around hawking my wares at starports, that would never be fun or exciting, it is not about makeing money, you can't buy anything with it anyway, i want to explore this world useing droids i biult by my own hands! I want to run missions and add to the story line useing my droids! I play now 30-45 min a day just to check to ensure that my vendor has something to sell, thats it, i can't run missions, or add to the game, i do not have any decent combat droids! If you want to sit around and just craft stuff be my guest, that is not what i want to do so stop trying to force your view of the world onto me!! The DEVs allowed for a certain flexability in this game for us to use, we are not locked into certain classes, I.E. MAGE, TAMER, SMITH, WARRIOR. We can modify our chars to be more ao less what we want to be able to do. I want to craft droids so that i can kick butt!!! There are no set classes in this game only abilities, I can heal due to being a novice medic, i am good with my pistol being a novice pistoleer, i have to use a greater sludge panther for protestion so i have to waste 60 odd skillpoints on a stupid pet handeler class instead of haveing a decent combat droid, and i have to master the artisan skilltree just to be able to craft my droids, and finally i have mastered the DE skill tree just so that i can build the best darn droids that i can build. MY vesion is to run missions useing my combat broids as tanks, while killing the mobs useing my pistol. If i had some decent combat droids i would sell the stupid panthers in a heartbeat!! I would then be able to be great with my pistol!!
I do not care what you want to be, it is not my affair. I do want to kick butt with my droids, so stop trying to force your small view onto the rest of us!!