Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Using cluster mods in non-cluster slots
Hello, fellow DEs.
New poster here (Wanted to get a clue of the profession before I started "voicing"). First of all, I find this forum to be one of the most helpful resources in understanding our "unwell" profession. So, thanks to all of you for sharing your knowledge and experiences. Now...
As I've worked up my skills (3104) and am making more useful products (I buy some of the mods I cannot make from a Master), something has troubled me recently. I've noticed obvious instances of clusters being used where they don't belong, and I've seen it often. For example, a Probot with med, storage, and a crafting station, which obviously isn't possible without using a cluster. Now, I know this is bugged in the game allowing this to be done, but it clearly is an exploit.
I've refrained from exploiting this bug myself out of respect to the DE profession and community, as this could certainly impact the value of certain models and overall droid economy. (Why would anyone buy an R3 over an R4 other than looks, if they can get it loaded up with the same stuff? Why would anyone buy a Probot with storage and crafting station AND buy a droid with medical, when they can have it all shoved in the Probot?)
Now, let me be clear. I'm on no high horse here. I've refrained from this assuming that most other DEs refrain as well (I could be way off here, and just need to relax). If exploiting the cluster bug is widely accepted and practiced in the DE community, then I'm sure I'll reconsider.
What are your thoughts on this? Is the practice of exploiting the cluster bug appropriate under the circumstances? btw, sorry if this has been discussed, but I've not seen it in recent weeks anyways.
Thanks in advance,
Neximus wrote:
...
(Why would anyone buy an R3 over an R4 other than looks, if they can get it loaded up with the same stuff? Why would anyone buy a Probot with storage and crafting station AND buy a droid with medical, when they can have it all shoved in the Probot?)
...
Ah, the line between "bug" and "designed feature" is so small.
Responding to the slice above, why would anyone buy an R5 over a MSE when they can both have a Crafting station or a level 6 module (note - I'm not talking about putting multiple modules via the socket cluster here)?
Ahhh... dangerous waters you've charted here, my friend. 
There's been numerous feeding-frenzy threads on this very topic in the past, and I imagine it's going to be ugly yet again.
Personally, I don't put clusters in general slots. Although, Iroutinely seethe opposite case: "the game lets us do it, and the customer want it, so it's legal".. Although, to this I say "the game also allows players to tote 3 rancors around in a PDA and use them to solo the friggin' death star, but that doesn't mean I support it". The game is broken in this area (most of DE, actually) and this WILL be fixed eventually! They just haven't gotten around to it yet. YES, this "feature" made it out of beta.. so did some "features" that make houses disappear.. again, that doesn't make it right, nor does it make these issues permanent.
Just my 2 credits though.. 
Cheers,
standup_philosopher wrote:
Ahhh... dangerous waters you've charted here, my friend.
...
I don't think my position is that controversial. My point is that a MSE droid can be outfitted (without using an "exploit" like the socket cluster) exactly as a much higher level droid.
It is my understanding that at one point pre-release, the droids did have unique functions, but a decision was made to make the droids interchangeable by having the functionality come from the modules. I'm not necessarily commenting on whether or not using the socket cluster in non-socket slots is an "exploit", I'm stating that I am of the opinion that it is no more (or less)an "exploit" than being able to put a Level 6 Medical module in a MSE droid.
Thanks for the comments so far. While you're at it. Anyone concerned that once it's fixed, the clustered mods in general slots will stop working?Based on how other nerfs have occured, I'd say that the concern is not warranted. However, to me this is clearly an exploit, not an out-of-balance situation that needs nerfing. I know the devs haven't been all over this (could just be complicated to fix), but I think you'dreally be reachingto think its not an exploit, but is intended to function this way.
Delta, I agree on the stupidity of allowing lvl6 mods in an MSE. However, stupid or not, there's nothing that indicates that the game design does not intend for this combination to be allowed. I don't believe that's the case for clusters in non-cluster slots.
jmho
Raleran0 wrote:
If this was an "exploit" I'd have thought the devs would have come down on it like a ton of bricks by now. Especially since they've done that on a lot of other "exploits".
Maybe, maybe....
But then again, this is an 'exploit' that does not make you more money, because you simply sell lower level droids with more functionality. If there was a bug that just let us stack modules in a module socket it STILL just wouldn't make for much of an exploit. It's not like doing this suddenly makes for super-powered, all-capable droids which make us an obscene amount of money. Using it is essentially a self-nerf, when you agree to make a MSE for someone with nested socket upon nested socket, it's your own fault when you only pull enough profit to keep one harvester running for a day.
I guess I'm not disagreeing that it probably should not work this way, I'm just saying that it's not a game breaker particularly, nor is it going to make DEs the favored uber-class. My guess would be that voluntary restriction of our income is low on the priority list.
>>>What are your thoughts on this? Is the practice of exploiting the cluster bug appropriate under the circumstances? btw, sorry if this has been discussed, but I've not seen it in recent weeks anyways.
Hello!
We've hashed this out several times, but to answer your question: I, for one, believe that General Droid Module Cluster Sockets were meant to be used in ANY socket. I don't think it's an exploit. I don't even think it's a bug. I DO, however, believe it's a design issue which needs to be changed. However, our profession needs an overhaul, and it's certainly easier to sell droids which do just about everything they can. Considering that it's difficult to sell droids which, seemingly, have no serious use, and have no color; I don't see how anyone can complain if people use it.
Sincerely.
Neximus wrote:
Delta, I agree on the stupidity of allowing lvl6 mods in an MSE. However, stupid or not, there's nothing that indicates that the game design does not intend for this combination to be allowed. I don't believe that's the case for clusters in non-cluster slots.
To continue the debate a little farther, why do you think the game design does not intend for this combination to be allowed? I would think the opposite.
Ack! I just popped back in here and realized Deltabob thought I was speaking about him when I said: "Ahhh... dangerous waters you've charted here, my friend."
Hehe.. this was in reference to the thread's original post, not your post. You must have beat me to the "submit post" button by a matter of seconds.Thecomedyis in thetiming...
I completely agree that putting a level6 module in an MSE is insane. Sure, maybe the customers want it.. but if I delivered everything the customers wanted, I'dend upa shady panhandler in the darker recesses of Restuss.
I also agree that while this"clustering thing"may or may not be viewed as a significantexploit by the Devs, it does nerf our own profession. Even ifone customercomes back to upgrade their Mega-MSE someday, they probably told all their buddies.This creates a market for impossibly-equipped droids that are worth less than yesterday's underpants. DE's have a limited income right now as it is (relative to many other professions anyway), and selling low-end droids with high-end "do it all" module clusters in them just seems like we're leveling the nerf pistol squarely at our own already-broken feet.
Cheers,
Raleran0 wrote:
If this was an "exploit" I'd have thought the devs would have come down on it like a ton of bricks by now. Especially since they've done that on a lot of other "exploits".
/sarcasm on
Oh, right. Given the intense scrutiny the devs. obviously give to the DE Board, they'd be on it in a nanosecond!
/sarcasm off
The reason I don't use clusters where "they don't belong" is I'm concerned that someday the devs will notice and fix this 'bug' - leaving me with a lot of rightfully irate customers on my hands.
If it was considered by the Devs to be an exploit, wouldn't they have fixed it by now?
(Remember....exploits always get first priority with them.)
Something to consider....
/bow
Respectfully,
BlueMorgoth writes: "I don't see how it's an exploit. It's quite clearly coded to work that way."
That's a truism. If it *wasn't* coded to work that way, then it wouldn't work that way. That's the nature of programs.
It's quite clear that it was not *intended* to work that way. Why else would there be two kinds of slots, one for modules and one for module clusters? This is very obviously a bug, and so using it is an exploit.
It's also such a minor exploit that I really doubt SOE cares that people are using it. I certainly hope that it gets fixed when we get our overhaul, but it's such a minor issue that I could care less which way they fix it - delete the difference between a module slot and a cluster slot, or force them to only be used in the proper slot. It just doesn't matter given the current state of the Droid Engineer.
I also suspect that any pre-existing droids will not be altered by any change to our class, which includes additional functionality. If you have a stacked MSE droid with every possible module in it but only one of the crafting stations works, expect those "extra" crafting stations to remain non-working once we're patched.