Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Why the devs are wrong that giving combat droids to everyone (with certifications) is unbalancing
Why the devs are wrong that giving combat droids to everyone (limited by certifications in the elite professions) would be unbalancing:
*****NOTE: TH if you are reading this PLEASE look this over VERY carefully. This is what players have been trying to tell you all week, and the devs have not, as of yet, understood at all***
To summarize, the devs are placing ALL players in the same category, without considering the fact that all players are not created equal.
You know what my problem with this whole thing is?
In Star Wars all one had to do was go and BUY a Droid. They did not have to be certified or be a Droid Handler to flip the power switch and instruct the Droid what to do. How hard is it to turn a Droid on and let it do it's thing? All this cert this and that and DH is just crap to me. Can the devs, besides the issue of game balancing(big whoop), justify why they're doing what they're doing?
At least with Creature Handler, it makes sense that only an animal trainer can train the beasts of the world. Are you telling me you have to know how to handle Droids for it to carry out it's program? Blah!
I shoot at bunnies with my gun.
The bunnies die in 10 seconds.
I bought a Combat Droid.
I shoot at bunnies with my gun.
My Combat Droid shoots bunnies with Its gun.
The bunnie die in 5 seconds.
Bunnies are boring now.
Gorillas look like they are not boring.
I shoot at gorillas with my gun.
My Combat Droid shoots at gorillas with Its gun.
The gorillas die in 10 seconds.
I am an entertainer.
I shoot at gorillas with my gun.
The bunnies die in 10 seconds.
I bought a Combat Droid.
I shoot at gorillas with my gun.
My Combat Droid Shoots gorillas with Its gun.
The gorillas die in 5 seconds.
Gorillas are boring now.
Tigers look like they are not boring.
I shoot at tigers with my gun.
My Combat Droid shoots at tigers with Its gun.
The tigers die in 10 seconds.
I am a Commando.
I shoot at tigers with my gun.
The tigers die in 10 seconds.
I bought a Combat Droid.
I shoot at tigers with my gun.
My Combat Droid Shoots tigers with Its gun.
The tigers die in 5 seconds.
Tigers are boring now.
Dragons look like they are not boring.
I shoot at dragons with my gun.
My Combat Droid Shoots at dragons with Its gun.
The dragons die in 10 seconds.
....
At what point for any of those typical classes, did thier overall combat power NOT get improved because they bought a combat droid?
If you want a creature for a pet, you are REQUIRED to spend points for a nice pet.
If you want a droid for a combat pet, then you should be REQUIRED to spend the points for a nice pet.
BlueMorgoth wrote:
The most important point that you have completely missed here is tanking. It doesn't matter how you crunch the numbers on just the player when the reason everyone used pets was so that they avoided getting hit in the first place. Send kitty in to get agro and then just pick off with very little danger to yourself. Remember how bad it was when everyone had a Lvl15 pet? Well, change the skin and now exactly the same thing happens with droids. 10 is the level that the devs are happy with that doesn't permit major tanking to be done by the pet. That is the imbalance they are talking about not some arbitrary set of numbers that you've made up there (most of which i disagree with anyway. I have a TKM/Brawler alt and your numbers are way off compared to my alts stats for HAM, damage, speed, encumberance etc). The devs are correct in their statements about how this would unbalance everything again, leading us straight back into pet wars.
Blue, I am really tired of you repeating the same stuff over and over without reading anything that is said:
(1) The kitties of old that everyone had were CL15, but had 3200 actual ham...now that the CL system has been revamped, CL = HAM/100. I am proposing the top CL20 droid having 2000 HAM...half that of the former gurreck
(2) The people who were using gurrecks were usually noobs with NO DAMAGE MITIGATION...it wasn't invented yet. If you look at the TKM of old, that TKM had 1000 HAM and only armor and buffs...1000 + 50% armor + 100% buffs = 4000 effective HAM. The certification would keep these pets out of the hands of lower HAM players that could use them to tank. Instead they become non-tank damage assistants to higher level players.
The gurrecks of old also had 25% armor, taking their 3200 ham to effective ham 4500 ham. So 4000 effective ham players were running around with 4500 effective HAM pets. THAT was unbalanced.
However you CANNOT compare then to now...the pet CL system has been totally revamped, and players now have damage mitigation (which doubles the effective ham).
(3) As I said, tanks are ONLY good if they can outlast their masters. With the pet revamps and defensive changes there is NO way that a CL20 pet gets even HALF the effective ham of their master. If you can't understand this you need to stop posting because you are too clueless to do anyone any good.
(4) I have had a TKM/Pistoleer with 50% armor, and my munbers are right on. Try again dude.
BlueMorgoth wrote:
That is the imbalance they are talking about not some arbitrary set of numbers that you've made up there (most of which i disagree with anyway. I have a TKM/Brawler alt and your numbers are way off compared to my alts stats for HAM, damage, speed, encumberance etc).
BTW, I also wanted to highlight this sentence as being REALLY dumb.
What does speed and encumberance have to do with damage? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. These have to do with damage DEALING, which have no evvect on damage dealt.
Additionally, I totally ignored the effects of food and spices...if you want me to increase my ham numbers to reflect those as well I would be glad to.
My character has 1000 health and action. I wear 51% composite armor. I am regularally buffed to over 3000 health and action. A master TKM gets 80% damage mitigation. A master pistoleer gets 80% ranged mitigation. Droids have a max of 40% armor...
These are the ONLY numbers I used...how can you POSSIBLY argue with any of these numbers?
Additionally, if it is my math you are contesting, try a calculator. I have a doctorate and it's flawless.
In conclusion, as I said, try again. The fact remains that (without spending ANY skill points) players can increase their HAM to over 10000 just by using armor, buffs, healing,and spices. The fact remains that you cannot heal or buff a droid. The fact remains that it doesn't matter if you like to kiss dev booty and repeat their mantra for them...the effective ham of a CL20 pet (under current standards, not the standards of 3 months ago) is such that is CANNOT be used as an effective tank for a character who has mastered multiple elite professions. The fact remains that you are wrong, and didn't read a single thing I said.
Daker,
Daker-Naritus wrote:
What does speed and encumberance have to do with damage? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. These have to do with damage DEALING, which have no evvect on damage dealt.
I like the info and premise of your post. For the most part, I'd agree.
Obviously, the Devs feel that having, say, 3 players each with a droid would end up having a total Damage output per second (or whatever amount of time) that is simply too high.
Why is that a problem?
Money. In two ways.
It lets players go out and get money from missions MUCH faster than they might be able to normally....or, just that MUCH faster, anyway. This is, I'm guessing, an attempt to control inflation caused by missions being completed and paying out faster.
This has two effects on the "game world" as TH so fondly calls it...
1) More money than they'd like is flowing into player hands at a rate they aren't happy with...
2) Players are gaining combat XP faster (due to less time/power needed to attain XP points from combat).
Item #2 here means that you get through combat professions that much more quickly. Instead of mastering in 6 days, it takes only 4. Or instead of mastering a tree in a few days, it takes maybe 2 (or a long one).
THAT issue leads directly into.....yup, you guessed it.
SOE's pocketbook.
When players blow through the combat professions more quickly, they are MUCH more likely to "churn" (read: quit).
So, a significant aspect of getting "balance" for the Dev team, is keeping people paying. That is their job, afterall.
Unfortunately, they are focusing on the wrong things to keep us all playing. I see it all over the boards. People are getting bored/tired of the game's systems and "content". Otherwise, why have a 14-day reactivation of the buddy key system?
When in doubt, follow the money.
/bow
Respectfully,
I read exactly what you said. Your entire argument is based around the fact that you can last longer in combat than your pet can. I'm telling you that the devs are not even looking at that aspect when considering game balance. What they are looking at is your ability to solo various creatures that you should not be able to because you have a pet that can last long enough. Just because a lvl15 pet then had 3K HAM hasn't changed much to now, why would a lvl 15 droid be any different? The whole point of the argument from the devs side is that that pet is an extra weapon that allows you to pull mobs individually without any fear of harm to yourself and that it has enough HAM to be able to stay upright for long enough that you can sucessfully complete the mission without too much undue harm. That is the point - the pet can stay alive long enough. A lvl10 creature pet gets mown down in about 15 second flat these days, which was far from the case with the Lvl15 pets. That time makes the world of difference in combat as you can kill one enemy and move onto the second or third in that time difference the different levels of pets afford you. It really doesn't matter what your stats are or what damage you can take or deal, we're talking about how much something else can take it leaving you free to pick of targets with safety. That is the free lunch that the devs are not going to hand out again.
On point 3 about the tank outlasting the master, that is untrue. The tank only has to last long enough to remove 1 or 2 of the threats from a spawn (assuming your typical 3 creature, 3 wave spawn from mission lairs). Once you have reduced the numbers of targets that could ptentially attack you to a more managable number, that is all that matters. The pet can die after the second attack and you'd only have one enemy to deal with and that is what counts. I can easily solo a single red conns with my TKM char without buffs of any kind (PB, food, doc, spice) and pet, but 3 would be me almost certainly risking death.
On point 4 - you're defense stacking, which throws the numbers right off. That will be removed next patch. That will effect your numbers greatly. In addition, you've completely missed all the other things like different resists and vulnerabilitys. One of those enemies comes at you with a stun weapon and it goes straight through you. "effective" HAM is just a set of meaningless numbers that only works in one given situation with all other factors removed. AP weapons, vulnerabilities make huge differences in the numbers.
And, just one point proving that your numbers are wrong - mitigation 3 is only 60% reduction in damage. Mitigation 1 is 40%, mitigation 2 is 50%. Here's the patch notes with the details.
And I can't emphasis how dumb this statement is too. Have you not heard of encumberances and what they do you? Just in case you didn't know, encumberances effect how much of your primary stats get hit when you perform specials and how quickly you recover primary attributes with. Just because you have 90% composite does not mean you are necessarily going to last any longer in battle than someone with 30% ubese. Those secondaries are the all important factor in combat. WIth armour reducing those down to rather insignificant amounts, particularly without buffs, you might as well not have armour on a lot of the time. In fact, my TKM rarely wears armour at all these days because I can last far longer in combat with it than without (even with really nice encumberance slices I got on it). The only time I do wear it is in PvP, and never in PvE.
Additionally, if it is my math you are contesting, try a calculator. I have a doctorate and it's flawless.
Hhhaaahahahahahaha. Sorry, but if you want to win a debate, do not resort to the Higher Powers argument. I've already proven that your numbers are wrong. Now what Doctor? WOuld you care to come join the real world?