Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: The Future of Droids A discussion on future droid development
I figured that I would throw in my two creds and start a new thread aimed in the direction that Thunderheart has suggested, but creating a discussion thread that can offer suggestions from the community and to be considered by the Development Team for implementation. This thread is intended for discussion on the future of Droids and not the future of the Droid Engineering Profession.
Before I offer my suggestions, some of which have been stated before - by myself, or someone else - I want to take the time to let others see how I view droids in SWG. Many people have brought up the argument 'I didn't see that in the movies or read that in a book.' The problem with this statement is that it is based on the assumption that SWG is based on the movies or published novels. Novels and movies deal with such a small scope of the Star Wars Universe. No other MMORPG, with the exception of WOR, has ever been set in a pre-existing 'world' of such magnitude. From everything that I have seen in SWG, the game was based not on the movies or novels, but on the closest thing that it could emulate - The Star Wars RPG universe created by both West End Games and then later by Wizards of the Coast.
I don't think that many of the SWRPG Guru that are out there can argue with this and have on a few occasions found those that feel the same way. The SWRPG is the closest that any of us can ever come to exploring aspects of the Star Wars Universe. One thing that I learned while playing, and GMing, the SWRPG was that nothing is impossible. SWG is played on a hand full of planets with a limited number of professions and species. The scope of everything becomes very limited by the limits placed by technology and programming. There are hundreds of thousands of worlds, species, and different types of technology in the SWRPG, but in SWG its limited to less than 1 dozen of each type.
When I first started this profession, I didn't care for the modular set up that droids had. As time progressed and I remembered my days as a SWRPGer, I began to realize that modular droid functions really make sense, but due to the low number of modules, and the presence of bugs in these modules, it is very limiting, which detracts from how good of a system it could be at some later point. Limiting what a droid can and can not do is against everything that makes a droid, a droid. Droids are supposed to able to evolve, which is why they are given artificial intelligence. This may not apply to droids in SWG, since there is a lack of this AI, but the way that droids are does reflect this.
With all the talk of the up and coming combat droids and combat modules, many have forgotten that SWG is based in a time of war and combat plays a huge role in its development. Many have taken the stance in favor of limiting what a droid can and can not to, which could in the long run benefit or cripple our profession. With all of this said, I feel that the proposed combat modules can only benefit the DE profession, but only if handled correctly.
Humanoid droids are the best suited to have combat modules installed, since they are viewed as being closest to sentient beings, due to appearance and speech. Giving existing humanoid droids combat abilities fits right in with tons of published material and can even be seen in evidence in ESB. As they currently are, Humanoid droids do not make good combat choices because of their HAM values, but its obvious that the DEVs are aware that 45 HAM just doesn't cut it, but offering the recent change to the HAM of the DZ-70. The argument that there aren't many combat ready Protocol units does not hold water when you keep in mind the law of averages. 1 instance illustrated anywhere in publication means that there is a certain percentage of that type of modification being performed. Anyone that has ever run faction missions can also point out that Surgical droids cause damage in combat, so obviously their programming has been altered so that they can fight in combat.
Non-Humanoid droids being given combat modules is not something that I would like to see, but could be done nicely if limitations were added. The R-series droid with a blaster is a prime example of how the combat modules should not be handled. Allowing for the R-series droids to use their internal tools in combat, as melee weapons does make sense however. R2 has shown that he can put his shock prod and buzz saw to good use. I'm not saying that I like the idea of non-humanoid droids in combat, which I don't, but I offering this as an idea for people to think about instead of the CDEF pistol duct-taped to the dome.
Even the combat modules themselves could be just thing we are looking for, until new combat droids are introduced. What if the combat modules where what allowed a droid to have experimentation matter? Lets say that you experimented on the combat module and received a certain rating that would boost the performance of a droid, such as HAM or damage modifiers. When you installed this module into the droid, such as the DZ-70, Probot, Surgical droid, LE, or Protocol droid, you would increase the HAM and combat damage.
This was brought up recently by someone, and I made comment on it a few months back, but instead of giving some droids a function, how about giving each droid added abilities when a certain module is installed. Giving LEs and Treadwells the ability to heal normal along with wound damage, when ever a repair module is installed, would give both droids a much larger market. Allowing R-series droids, or BLLs, with repair modules installed, the ability to repair vehicles, or structures respectively, over time would increase the market for sales of both droid models. Increasing the effectiveness of each module, when installed in a certain droid, would also benefit droid sales. BLLs that have increased Item Storage, Surgical that have increased Medical capacity, and MSE that have increased data storage would make each specific droid type an added benefit over other droid types, but would allow for more diverse options as new modules are added in the future.
Here is an idea that was inspired by THs post last month that included the comment about personal heralds. Droids with personality chips installed could give you information about different POIs, depending on what personality chips is installed. For instance, a droid with the Prissy personality chip could offer historical information about a POI, but only when it is near the POI. This information could be a spatial text, or the idea that I like, it could create a next document that is stored in your datapad and can be traded, or stored in a droids data storage module. The document could offer Extended Universe information about the POI. The Slang personality could offer underworld information about the POI, the Worshipful personality could offer regional information that could relate to ruling bodies, the Stupid personality could offer rumors, and the Geeky personality could offer DEV notes on the actual design of the POI. This would give the personality chips a purpose and at the same time add content to the game in the form of EU information.
Verbose as ever, that is it for my ideas, for now. Now its time for everyone else to add to it and post constructive comments.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I think the first priority, independent of what we individually think about the future of this profession is this:
fix what's broken first.
1. Experimentation. experimentation, first and foremost, needs to friggin' work. Coupled with that,they need to actually get the parameters that affect the quality of the component you've produced into the component's description (but that last point is a side problem that extends across all the crafting professions and just happens to affect ours more than others I think).
2. Get rid of or fix all the garbage that does nothing. I'm becoming disgustingly sick of the guessing game of trying to figure out whether or not the higher quality materials and successful experimentation actually have an in-game affect or not. If it has no in-game effect then do one of two things. either A) remove it from the schematic description and/or from the list of experimentation options. or B)DOCUMENT the fact that its broken and that you intend to fix it later. Leaving us hanging in this regard is rude. The biggest problem with this profession, more than anything else (in my opinion), is that the majority of our profession's schematics have some problem associated with them that is related to this item 2.
In my opinion, any plan that doesn't address these two items as the number one priority is a waste of time.
Assuming those things are going to be addressed, I don't care if droids are completely modular like they are now. That's fine. I like the mix-n-match nature of the modules, but chassis should carry with them some innate bonuses that stack with the modules. It seems that will make everyone happy. Let people put medical modules in probot's and let people put combat modules in surgical droids but give the probot a chassis bonus to some combat feature (either HAM and/or damage) and give the surgical droid a chassis bonus to its medical rating. Then everything will be completely modular, but the best droids for a given task will still be the ones that use the chassis that is most natural for the function.
Drashk touched on that same point already. I'm just reiterating it.
Still though, first and foremost, they need to fix the major problems that are already there either first or in parallel with whatever they choose to add.
Bug fixes and future development are two different issues entirely.From what has already been stated before, in the big post that TH made last month, bug fixes are cued up before anything else is due out. Everyone agrees, or at least they should, that bug fixes need to come before content.
This thread is intended to discuss what new content we would like to see, after the bugs are fixed. Content before fixes only will result in more bugs. The original version of this thread stated that in the first line, butmy computer decided that it was time to have a critical error and Word crashed.
Well thought out and well put. The only part I don't really agree on is non-humanoid droids not being combat capable. I could see them performing different combat roles, but combat roles nonetheless. I could see a little light popping out of the treadwell's "head" and blinding everyone in combat nearby. I could see R-units do some melee damage, I even like the MSE bombs (yes, I know there were many people who thought this was a stupid idea, but thats the kind of jurry-rigging I like to see).
The suggestion with the POI info is great. The more you know about your surroundings, the more immersive and enjoyable it is. Whats the point of driving out to the ewok lake village? To get a POI badge? No (well, not for most of us), its to see what there is to see. As it is there's nothing much to do at any of the POI's, just go there, look for a minute, and your done. With some info behind them you could actually feel like your visiting the place.
I like the Idea of getting info about POI's I think that alone will make ppl want to get different droids since they will want to know what they all say. Maybe put some funny things in there and make it actual FUN to go exploring. I must say I like collecting badges of POI's but when I get there I do wish I could snap a picture and put it in an in-game album that can be shared with others. It would be cool if somehow a droid could do this. (yes I barely thought of this)
I also like the idea that you can jerry-rig droids. If I was a crafty person wanting to hurt someone I would put a bomb in a unassuming droid and tell it to go find so-and-so. This would be a great feature for bh's (of course I don't know how bh's work, I never asked) or a way non PVP players could join in on battlefields. (damage would have to be regulated)
I can't wait for combat droids!!! The reason I decided to do this proofession was because I wanted droids with blasters. (I was dissapointed when I found out the truth)
And combat droids should be strong! Our modern armies don't pull out an elephant to take on the enemy they have tanks and missles and helecopters. To make it more even and not to totally kill off CH (which I like btw) the really strong droids should only be used in PVP or on battle fields and be not so strong against creatures. Or another Idea have some Uber Droids only available to a higher skilled people and have levels like pets. Might have to implement some sort of skill levels here, I'm not sure how it would work.
Or maybe have weapon modules that wear out like weapons so you can buy stronger weapons depending on your skill and put them in your droids. So you have to be qualified to have a stronger droid just like you have to qualify to use a certain weapon. that way droids can still be used by lower lvls but not be totally worthless to higher lvl people who want to fight.
Well those are my rambling thoughts. Didn't even think of them until I started to write. And have probably been said before. 
One of my preferences is not exactly new content, but something I would like to see re-implemented. Personality chips going back into mmost of the droids, and then working they way they have done previously (Responses when you give a command etc)
Also another thing I think would improve things would be the introduction of modules that allow droids to perform some profession specific functions at a reduced level (Like artisan surveying or ranger tracking) so that, although a novice of that profession will do better you are not utterly dependant on them for that ability
Some thoughts from a DE wanna-be...
I'm not sure that an intense focus on only combat droids is a great idea, for the same reason that I'm not sure that creature handling, while sometimes fun,is very good for the game.If you accept Koster's credo that no tamable should take the place of another player or group member, you can't really justify having a super-powerful combat droid without a large investment of skill points. This means that combat droids will either be somewhat weak (and therefore unpopular) or that only DEs or a new "droid handler" class will be able to use them. Either way it's a loss for those who see the DE as a crafter first. They won't sell, and another **edit** class isn't a very attractive addition to the game (for me).
Droids have been referred to as the "swiss army knife" of SWG, and I'd like to see them moving in that direction with a larger array of usable modules. Instead of doing your work for you, they should improve your ability to do what you do best, what you've spent your valuable skill points on. I've seen a ton of cool ideas on slicing, surveying, entertaining, and such.
In combat, they could help you heal faster, heal more damage, aim better, or distract a target without necessarily tanking - maybe they could zip around pestering your target with strobes or low-damage zaps to cause dizzy, stun, or intimidate - just confusing a charging mob for just a few seconds isn't balance-changing, but it could be very effective and useful. Consider Luke's training drone cutting loose on you while you're trying to attack something else...
I guess what I'm saying is that combat droids won't be a big splash for me and I don't think they'll improve things in the long run. Not everyone wants to have pets to do the fighting for them. On the other hand, the opportunity to have a set of droids where eachone improves the different things I do in-game would make merun for my nearest DE shop.
I had some good ideas a while back with a twist...
Holograms, but not just for Entertainers. For combat types, how would you like it if you saw three commandos firing their flame throwers at you. At first inspection scary, but upon closer you notice you are only taking one of their damage, the other two you can target and are "Red Dot" on radar, but you cannot damage it, nor can it damage you. The trick is to find the "real" one. Entertainers could use it to group in a crowded Cantina/empty Cantina to gain more healing power or just step away with out going AFK.
Another good idea I had involved the level that you are. The mission terminals can "read" what level you are. Why couldn't a Combat Droid. He would level up with you. That would limit the newbs to poor cambat droids, yet give the elite combat professionals something stronger
I wish that the Dev's would do something to make playing this profession an enjoyable one. I was so excited to make droids! My happiness was shortlived however. Everyone that I talk to is always complaining about grinding out mouse droid after mouse droid, which I would like to avoid doing. I made it to Master Artisan without grinding once! There was just so much to craft and many different ways to customize, becoming a MA was just fun!
Becoming a DE is so dull! You can't sell a customized droid (mainly colors) at vendors because you can only see deeds not actual droids. I try to make sure that I have enough droid custimization unit to be able to sell with the droids. No one can "see" the droid before the purchase and that is half the sell. You can't put any personal touches into a deed like you could with weapons, armor, clothes, etc. BOO! I don't think that experimentation even does that much for droid crafting wich totally blows. Droid crafting consists of:
Insert resource
Insert module
Craft
Get deed
Hooray! What fun! There is no depth, no personality, no orginality! It is currently a profession for grinders and loners, and I am neither. I am going to stick with it however in order find something fun cuz this is what I wanted to do when the game first was announced. I do have a few suggestions that I believe would help:
1. Get rid of droid deeds.
Make droids an item and not something in your data pad. It works for houses and vehicles (for now) but not for droids. Droids need to me more visual. They need to be seen in descriptions in the bazaar or at vendors. They need to shown what little custumization has been put in the droids.
2. Make droids stay in game when you are logged out.
I hate the fact that I need to reestablish my mouse droids patrol path around my house whenever I log in. In the SW Universe there are should be droids wandering around everywhere, but you never see any because droids can't stay up when there owners are away. Houses and factoreis and many other things can stay on when you log, why can't droids? I want my mouse to be patroling my house 24/7!
3. Expand on droid custimization
Currently the only thing that you can change is the color, modules, and personality. This isn't nearly enough! Give droids different types of heads, arms, legs, etc! Let DE be what they want to be Droid Designers! The current system is MUCH to linear.
There is more, but I need to get back to work! 
Jenden wrote:
The only part I don't really agree on is non-humanoid droids not being combat capable. I could see them performing different combat roles, but combat roles nonetheless. I could see a little light popping out of the treadwell's "head" and blinding everyone in combat nearby. I could see R-units do some melee damage, I even like the MSE bombs (yes, I know there were many people who thought this was a stupid idea, but thats the kind of jurry-rigging I like to see).
I was just making my belief in that matter be known, since it is a debated item and with me being considered for the Correspondents Position I just wanted people to know where I 'officially' stood on the matter. This does not mean that I can't change my mind as more ideas are put forward, or offer unbiased information about the subject. Limiting a Droids capability will ultimately limit a droids sales.
For me, giving any droid combat capability must make sense in some way. Allowing non-Humanoid droids the ability to participate in combat should relate to hardware that is already a part of their make up, or an attachment that fits the droid correctly. Allowing for an R-series droid, BLL, Treadweall, or MSE to participate in ranged combat doesn't make sense to me, since none of these droids has a means to hold a ranged weapon or have a justified means to attach the weapon.Quite a few have stated that they would like to see a BLL with a ranged weapon, reminscent of Mech from BattleTech. I believe that this is a mistake, since I think that the best usefor the BLLwould be as a Melee tank.I don't like the idea of the MSE bomb due to the fact that if could become a major griefing tactic, especially for destroy mission. Keep in mind how far away that you can currently target someone and send in your Probot to attack. Someone could select theirmission lairand send the MSE in to explode, without ever having to get close to their target. Depending on the strength of the explosion and if the droid is destroyed after use, someone could use a few MSE deeds and take out any creature lair on any planet, with minimal risk.
Bigface wrote:
And combat droids should be strong!Or another Idea have some Uber Droids only available to a higher skilled people and have levels like pets. Might have to implement some sort of skill levels here, I'm not sure how it would work.
Or maybe have weapon modules that wear out like weapons so you can buy stronger weapons depending on your skill and put them in your droids. So you have to be qualified to have a stronger droid just like you have to qualify to use a certain weapon. that way droids can still be used by lower lvls but not be totally worthless to higher lvl people who want to fight.
I agree, combat droids should be more powerful than they are now, but the only way that this can happen is through the use of some type of droid cert system, that is not entirely based on combat skills. I'll post an idea that is form later on in this thread.
The degrading weapon module idea doesn't appeal to me for three reasons. 1) Droid Vitality - This is what limits a droid already. I was getting a lot of return business on Live for Probots, since many used them until their vitality just gave out.Probots with Medical modules sold out really fast to the 2-3 customers that were Combat Medics in the GCW. They would rush into PvP with their Medical Probot and poison all of the Rebels using the 10% medical bonus. I also had a number of CH customers that would use a Probot in combat for the med use and as a back up tank in a pinch. 2) Droid Batteries - Droids already depend on an expendable item. To give a combat droid yet another item to be used on a regular basis would make it an even harder selling point. 3) Droid Customization - Not as nessecary, but it is still a burr in some peoples side.
With the hints that TH made about Vitality and the new combat droids, I would suspect that there will be enough of a droid turn over that degrading combat modules might not be in the best interest of our profession, but this is just my view on the subject.
Arcid wrote:
One of my preferences is not exactly new content, but something I would like to see re-implemented. Personality chips going back into mmost of the droids, and then working they way they have done previously (Responses when you give a command etc)
Also another thing I think would improve things would be the introduction of modules that allow droids to perform some profession specific functions at a reduced level (Like artisan surveying or ranger tracking) so that, although a novice of that profession will do better you are not utterly dependant on them for that ability
Personality chips were removed from non-Humanoid droids due to the fact that they are the only droids that have factory installed means of speech. It would be great to have droids speak again when ever they are issued a command, but this would also add the problem of combat message spam. Think about how many people already spam out commands in combat to their pets. Having stronger combat droids with personality chips that respond each time you command it to attack something will cover the screen in spam responses, even if the person is using /tellpet attack.
Allowing a droid to have skills that simulate PC skills is a touchy subject. Doing so would take away some of the value of a particular profession. Having a droid that can track, no matter how small the ability, allows for someone to do something that they could not do without the skill point use, or in a group.
MachineZed wrote:
Holograms - For combat types, how would you like it if you saw three commandos firing their flame throwers at you. At first inspection scary, but upon closer you notice you are only taking one of their damage, the other two you can target and are "Red Dot" on radar, but you cannot damage it, nor can it damage you. The trick is to find the "real" one. Entertainers could use it to group in a crowded Cantina/empty Cantina to gain more healing power or just step away with out going AFK.
Another good idea I had involved the level that you are. The mission terminals can "read" what level you are. Why couldn't a Combat Droid. He would level up with you. That would limit the newbs to poor cambat droids, yet give the elite combat professionals something stronger
You have to remember that Holograms in the Star Wars Universe are blue fuzzies and not the 3-D as real as life doppelganger in other sci-fi genres.
Since Droids have vitality, creating a system for droid leveling might not be that benefical. Once a droid losses a certain amount of Vitality, it begins to lose HAM and damage. Not many would want to spend time leveling up their droid, if it will lose that bonus the next time it is incapped.
bjiceman wrote:
1. Get rid of droid deeds.
Make droids an item and not something in your data pad. It works for houses and vehicles (for now) but not for droids. Droids need to me more visual. They need to be seen in descriptions in the bazaar or at vendors. They need to shown what little custumization has been put in the droids.
2. Make droids stay in game when you are logged out.
I hate the fact that I need to reestablish my mouse droids patrol path around my house whenever I log in. In the SW Universe there are should be droids wandering around everywhere, but you never see any because droids can't stay up when there owners are away. Houses and factoreis and many other things can stay on when you log, why can't droids? I want my mouse to be patroling my house 24/7!
3. Expand on droid custimization
Currently the only thing that you can change is the color, modules, and personality. This isn't nearly enough! Give droids different types of heads, arms, legs, etc! Let DE be what they want to be Droid Designers! The current system is MUCH to linear.
1) I would love to see deeds done away with, however if that is done, then the Advanced Chassis would need to be removed so that their isn't any confussion anymore. There definetly needs to be more information revealed about a droid, when examining the finished product.
2) The problem with droids being persistent after log off can be illistrated with the recent problems that have been experienced when vehicles hit Live. People would log out, yet their vehicle would stick around which put more strain on server load. Back when droids were being persistent, this server load could be noticed as well, with a higher case of lag.Factories, houses and other structures are handled much more differently than droids. pets and PCs. Structures become part of the landscape and become location specific when placed, where as droids aren't location specific at any given timeand suffer the same location lag that PCs have. They are two different types of data being tracked, and apparentlytakes up a lot more server resources to do so.
3) Making droids completely modular in apperance would make being a Master DE so much more enjoyable.Being able to have options to change heads, arms, legs, torso, and color of each droid, if only slightly, would give DEs the ability to make SWG look more like the infinte universe that it is supposed to be. Unfortuantely that is a lot of artwork to create and compile.