Doctor Archive
Thread: Step Back TOP 2 Issues From fellow Doc
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BleuDestiny
Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:28 pm
#1
Doctors, don't treat the symptoms, treat the disease. This affects all of us, but there's no General Forums.
I. Storage and Crafting:
It doesn't help crafters to have 10 lots limited to approx. 150 items each. Gameplay is severly impacted if in order to manage multiple resources, components, and subcomponents, you are required to spread these items among various structures to the point where we never know where anything is, and we're trying to sort thru resources, matching components, checking quality and optimizing. We can't spare bags that are named and contentsorganized, because they take up more precious slots.
Reasonably, a crafting shop would benefit tremendously by having a min. of 4 rows of 5 bags in a shop to operate in any organized way. Think about storing varieties of different resources of varying quality, and varying components and subcomponents. 20 bags is nothing. I could easily make a case for another 2 rows of 15 bags. But being reasonable, 4 rows of 5 bags is 1,020 units (bags included), and add another 30 for decorations and vendors, and you get 1,050 for a CraftingShop structurethat we can operate in. What we have now is less than 20% of that meager set up, or only 150 units per avg. structure.
Crafters don't need multiple houses, its a nightmare to maintain and we're always searching, moving, reorganizing, its time-wasting, tedious, game killing tasks. Emphasis added.
Instead we need is an option for one Crafting Shop, with the aforementioned 1,050 items minimum storage, and other lots for harvesters and factories only. How about an option for a crafting shop with this capacity, and other lots restricted to factories and harvesters only, or the standardalternative choice of 10 lots as you choose, but no Crafting Shop allowed if you have another house already actively deployed. Between this storage issue and the next, they completely crush the fun out of the game.
II. Decay rates on goods and services related to combat:
Start with a simple statement. "If it takes, at a minimum, the first hour of each online session to do busy work before you can get started on combat content, something is seriously wrong." That is currently the case.
The left brace needs repair. The right leg needs repair. The gun needs repair. The right leg breaks during repair. Do I have a replacement right leg? Where did I store that stuff, can't remember because storage is an aweful problem to get organized. OK, I don't have one repaired and left over, I have to get one from merchant/guild armorsmith. Armorsmith is out of them, will make one. Ran out of particular resource in armorsmith droid, have to go to house. Have to go repeat all of this with weaponsmith.
The woe continues. BF is at 400, need to get healed. Where is our entertainer? We lost our bot due to recursive macros being nerfed. Have to go to Coronet, hold on group, I'm getting healed, be another 20 minutes. Go get mind buffed. I'm a doc, so I can buff myself, saves 20 minutes. Meet up with group at starport. Four of them need buffs. I only have 3 action buffs on me. Buff all of them. Open droid to get more action buffs. Ran out. Sorry peeps, have to run back for buffs (storage, where, been a while since I grabbed a crate). Two of the four at starport need repairs of their own. Often 2 hours later, Are we ready to go yet, group?
Wow, two hours after getting online, we're ready. Ten minutes in, player #1 dies. Needs rebuffing. 20 minutes in, player #3 needs a repair on his weapon., 30 minutes in, Player #4's chest armor died, along with Player #4. 40 minutes in, Player #2's buffs ran out, because we've been trying to get out and start combat for the last two hours and 40 minutes.
SOE, fellow players, this is a complete disaster of game time. I'll get back to the original statement, "If it takes, at a minimum, the first hour of each online session to do busy work before you can get started on combat content, something is seriously wrong."
As a suggestion, the decay is the issue. It needs to be toned down by a factor of 3 at least. Increase duration of buffs. Between the decay and related busy work, and the storage and related busy work, these two things alone are seriously undermining the gameplay. With all this non-enjoyable busy work, who's got time for content and enjoyment, for RP? Who has time for creating content and enjoyment, creating events, doing things as a group?
The average group doesn't stay together more than 20 minutes at best, that's a fact, because they have to break up because something decayed, or wore out, or someone has to leave because it took us too long to get started in the first place.
Conclusion:
If we could eliminate or mitigate a good portion of this busy work through decreased decay and increased storage (at least in ONE CRAFTING SHOP structure), we customer/players could actually be creative in group events and create fun for ourselves!!! As it is, we're frustrated with busy work, leading to intolerance of game aspects that we might otherwise say "all good" to,and a general dismal ratio of enjoyable game time versus tedious busy-work game time.
Devs, please consider this carefully, and find ways to mitigate concerns on player economy, which I assume is behind this quagmire. These two issues are at the root of, or exacerbating, any and all complaints about SWG, and continues in the beta experience of JTL. You have the opportunities here for some serious Wins and enjoyment by your customers.
I recently canceled two of my accounts over the storage issue, and the announcement of the nerfing of the recursive macros. As an example of how the above two issues are leading to intolerance throughout the game, its the busywork related to combat preparation that makes recursive macros so fundamental in players' desparate attemptsto recapture their SWG fun-time by creating guild bots. Now if we weren't going through all of the above, and frankly insane, busy work, we wouldn't be so tied to guild bots. But as it is, we're clinging to them for any semblance of fun or sanity. So much so that I cancelled two accounts and am seriously close to quitting altogether. I haven't been back to the Live servers since July when the recursive issue was announced, my spirits broken. I'm testing beta now, and have no desire to visit live. It's a disaster.
It all goes back to these two issues. If they were addressed, we bot proponentswouldn't care a lick about recursive macros or bots... see how these two feed into intolerance and lack of enjoyment otherwise?
Hope this helps save my remaining accounts and those of other players. If it weren't for the Star Wars RP element here, I wouldn't have put up with it for as long as I did, and I hope to see it mitigated so I can go back and actually enjoy it, and contribute to creating our own content in what should be a MMORPG, not a task oriented and task hogging bore.
Write in and request Crafting Shops or other solutions to these two issues:
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/submit_feedback.jsp?page=Submit%20Feedback
Bleue Deimai, Master Doctor/Pistoleer
Flurry
Message Edited by BleuDestiny on 10-05-2004 02:30 PM
Thunderbyte
Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:27 pm
#2
I see some very good points here. Between having a relativly small storage space (this is an issue for all elite crafters) and not having a good way to manage the resources, it does seem like you spend a long time setting up your factories, organizing supplies, and just getting out of your shop. I'm not going to complain too much on those issues, but I too would like to see more storage in houses (vs. say having more lots), and would also like to see personal inventory space increased.
Personally, I carry about 15 - 20crates of meds (and the same amount of meds out of the crate), plus carrying armor and a few other things, it can be very tedious to do things like move your house (which of course must be empty). I have one bag alone in my house that has 20-30 deeds for harvesters(I used to just carry them with me), and when you land on a planet and find a resource you like you realize you need to go back to your house to set up a harvester there.
So I agree...give us more storage space (I'm not asking for too much more), and perhaps have resources stack differently (like in lots of 1 mill instead of 100k), or perhaps have a bag full of only one type of resource only have a volume of 1 or 2.
BleuDestiny
Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:09 am
#3
- Bots are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Empty vendors are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Fragmented group combat activitiesare not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack of immersion and RP are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack of guild and city activities, and events, are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack ofcommunity,helpfulness, and social aspectsare not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack of traffic and presence in non-starport cities are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- I could go on and on. All these symptoms are part of a disease, and the disease are the two issues rooted in busywork: decay and storage. Fundamental game design flaw, easily fixed.
kirstar
Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:34 am
#4
nice post have 5 stars.
i remember when i first started and put down my small house. what ? 50 storage ? my backpack has that
ok lets move to a medium house. ah 
2 slots but 150 spaces.
2 slots but 150 spaces.ok lets got to a large house. this takes 6 spaces. should be able to store hundreds if not thousands...
W TF 150 ??????????
the limits are stupid.
you should be able to store stuff in packs & crates and boxes, and draws etc. if I store 50 items in a pack in my house it should take one space from the house not 51
Marzuk147
Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:46 am
#5
They do need to give crafters the ability to place such a structure, and dropping the crafting line that gives it needs to get rid of the building.
They will say they cant because of item storage ect, well screw you I have a merchant alt that can hold thousands of items, and Im going to have all that crap if they like it or not.
They will say they cant because of item storage ect, well screw you I have a merchant alt that can hold thousands of items, and Im going to have all that crap if they like it or not.
BleuDestiny
Sat Oct 09, 2004 9:27 am
#6
Forget Galaxy Forums, forget Profession Forums, forget Trade Forums. We need a venue to address things that are global to all professions, all galaxies. SOE doesn't give us a General Discussion Forum to address these higher level issues, so where do we gain momentum? In Flurry forums, or Doctor Forums? Lame, and controlling. When they start to fear feedback, its time for new management. These issues are global and they're urgent and they're huge:
- Crushing busywork revolving around combat
- Crushing busywork revolving around crafting
- Combat Balance
- Jedi nerfing and FSR (suxxors unless you're PvP)
It doesn't do any good to disagree with this unless you read the details in the referenced thread at the bottom of my signature. The facts are the facts. I haven't heard any argument to them so far.
If at least the first two critical items were mitigated, we'd have some time left to make some fun in this wonderfully rich gaming environment, and not rely on content, it is after all, a MMORPG and I think we have the tools to make some fun for ourselves. Unfortunately because of the issues, we don't have time or the patience. And as for the Jedi nerfing, my jedi hasn't been logged in since soon after the revamp. Its pretty clear that the devs, who knows whats best for us, don't want me to enjoy playing a jedi.
AmoulXhalis
Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:27 am
#7
Very well said. Logically pointed out, no raving and ranting.
The idea of a Crafting Shop never occurred to me before, but yes, that would be quite fantastic. Not only would it be a useful structure, but it would be another type of structure, lending more diversity to Player Cities. Could it have extra modifiers? Sure, why not? But before I get carried away, yes, I'd settle for just a specialized building with storage for my harvester deeds and resources. Loot can always go in the bank, house or (as I have mine now) factories.
I don't think we need extra lots specifically for factories or harvesters, as deciding what role you want in the game forces you to decide between the two. If you want to be a crafter, especially on a large scale, you're going to have more factories. If you're a resource merchant, more harvesters.
I've gone ahead and submitted my request for Crafting shops.
Amoul Xhalis - At work, asleep, it's all the same really.
The idea of a Crafting Shop never occurred to me before, but yes, that would be quite fantastic. Not only would it be a useful structure, but it would be another type of structure, lending more diversity to Player Cities. Could it have extra modifiers? Sure, why not? But before I get carried away, yes, I'd settle for just a specialized building with storage for my harvester deeds and resources. Loot can always go in the bank, house or (as I have mine now) factories.
I don't think we need extra lots specifically for factories or harvesters, as deciding what role you want in the game forces you to decide between the two. If you want to be a crafter, especially on a large scale, you're going to have more factories. If you're a resource merchant, more harvesters.
I've gone ahead and submitted my request for Crafting shops.
Amoul Xhalis - At work, asleep, it's all the same really.
Crizis
Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:48 am
#8
BleuDestiny wrote:
- Bots are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Empty vendors are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Fragmented group combat activitiesare not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack of immersion and RP are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack of guild and city activities, and events, are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack ofcommunity,helpfulness, and social aspectsare not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack of traffic and presence in non-starport cities are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- I could go on and on. All these symptoms are part of a disease, and the disease are the two issues rooted in busywork: decay and storage. Fundamental game design flaw, easily fixed.
It's funny if you think about it, how all the things we grief about can be tied to a few core game design issues, and how they web out into other issues. This makes a lot of sense.
Brainplay
Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:09 am
#9
Crizis wrote:
BleuDestiny wrote:
- Bots are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Empty vendors are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Fragmented group combat activitiesare not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack of immersion and RP are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack of guild and city activities, and events, are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack ofcommunity,helpfulness, and social aspectsare not the problem, they're a symptom.
- Lack of traffic and presence in non-starport cities are not the problem, they're a symptom.
- I could go on and on. All these symptoms are part of a disease, and the disease are the two issues rooted in busywork: decay and storage. Fundamental game design flaw, easily fixed.
It's funny if you think about it, how all the things we grief about can be tied to a few core game design issues, and how they web out into other issues. This makes a lot of sense.
Think there's a bit too much generalization going on there to attribute it all to decay and storage. You could add "lack of quenker missions in no fragmented combat activities" to that list if you wanted too.
The storage limits and decay are there for a reason. I may not be convenient to some but overall gameplay it is a necessity.
j_sinclair
Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:44 pm
#10
just a quick thought but you can place a crafting station in a house for one lot and then that can hold 100 lots of resources (i think - i've been a non-crafting doc for too long!). but if i recall right these resources then dont count against your houses item count. or you can get business 3 (which no self respecting crafter would be without!) and stick them all in bags on there for 999999999 credits. Its not an ideal way of doing things but then again lifes not ideal and you gotta take it as it comes ...
y-osa
Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:00 pm
#11
Storage can be an issue at times for me as well, not much of one though, although I don't carry to many smaller stacks ofsimillar rescource, I like to keep huge amounts of quality same rescource, organize them using six packs setup beside my crafting station, any overflow gets sold or shoved into one of my storage droids, although the idea of a crafting shop for the sake of just having it is cool. I wouldnt place to high of a limitation on the number of Items though, 200 is adaquate, set up with its own storage placements, renamable, that don't count towards your house limit, 20 is more that enouph, with a cert level as well, master artisans, novice docs and novice crafters, so not everbody can take addvantage of it,neet Idea. Better though would be a sales shop, one that looks like a shop, mabey has 3 styls per planet and 1 generic style, some with glass window fronts, customizable sign, several flier options pined to the wall, pp could write stock prices or whatever they like for customer inspection, instead of placing Items on the vendor with huge descriptions that do just that, a pickup outlet, only alowed access to an Item if your name is attached to it, there is huge potential, oh and cert that as well, novice artisan, so you at least have to expend the 15 skill points to place it, would make for more visability for vendors. Tents fall into this realm, but are inadiquate, and I like the apeal of a structure over a tent.
Legende
Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:34 pm
#12
BleuDestiny wrote:Forget Galaxy Forums, forget Profession Forums, forget Trade Forums. We need a venue to address things that are global to all professions, all galaxies. SOE doesn't give us a General Discussion Forum to address these higher level issues, so where do we gain momentum? In Flurry forums, or Doctor Forums? Lame, and controlling. When they start to fear feedback, its time for new management. These issues are global and they're urgent and they're huge:
- Crushing busywork revolving around combat
- Crushing busywork revolving around crafting
- Combat Balance
- Jedi nerfing and FSR (suxxors unless you're PvP)
It doesn't do any good to disagree with this unless you read the details in the referenced thread at the bottom of my signature. The facts are the facts. I haven't heard any argument to them so far.
If at least the first two critical items were mitigated, we'd have some time left to make some fun in this wonderfully rich gaming environment, and not rely on content, it is after all, a MMORPG and I think we have the tools to make some fun for ourselves. Unfortunately because of the issues, we don't have time or the patience. And as for the Jedi nerfing, my jedi hasn't been logged in since soon after the revamp. Its pretty clear that the devs, who knows whats best for us, don't want me to enjoy playing a jedi.
In regards to a general forum, take a look at THIS THREAD... it outlines my struggle with the joke they call TSR-Chad in the Tech Support forum when I was trying to get info about Password Security and then why we don't have a general SWG discussion.
Long story short, I was banned for 3 days for posting "off topic" twice in the tech support forum about password security [how that's off topic is beyond me] as well as about getting a general SWG forum.
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