Doctor Archive

Thread: From on Doc to another...

Lipau
Thu May 05, 2005 11:05 am
#1

I'm writing this as obvioulsy one of my first posts, and I ask that you forgive me if I've missed a vital point of information or have committed a forum-posting faux-pas.

I've found this post written about the CURB, after trying to find an answer as to why we Doctors have been placed into a role that we didn't choose in the first place (IS there some post or thread that I missed that addressed this question with a viable answer?). Somehow I found myself where this post was located, how I don't know, but after reading it I thought it was a very thoughtful, intelligent post that many here would enjoy reading and perhaps agree with. It might even help us come up with a respectable plea to the Devs to help us 'heal' our 'wounded' profession (forgive the pun). I apologize for the length, and if this has already been posted... and even for if you have already read it!



Beladan writes:


I agree.


There can be little doubt amongst gamers that several varieties of player exist. Every player is unique, certainly, but it can be demonstrated with relative ease that the majority of players fit in somewhere within a matrix that is, for ease, broken down into a four axis grid of Interactive, Active, World, Player. This model has been comprehensively discussed and developed by Richard Bartle in his seminal essay “Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds, Spades: Players who suit MUDS and can be read online here:


http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm&e=9801


I encourage everyone with an interest in understanding their gaming a little more deeply than “Log on, Kill, Log Out” to read over this document. I think with a greater understanding that there are multiple character types coming to MMORPG’s with multiple expectations and needs, then the rhetoric behind “CU rawks vs CU sux” discussions could be moderated and more discussion could be had to steer the game to a compromise that everyone can live with might be had.


In a nutshell, Mr Bartle identifies several player types in his essay; Achievers, Explorers, Socializers and killers, and he plots these out as indicated here: (Forgive the hinkey colors - I suck as forum graphics!)

.....................................ACTING
..................Killers.............|..................Achievers
.........................................|
.........................................|
.........................................|
.........................................|
.........................................|
......PLAYERS.-------------+--------------.WORLD
.........................................|
.........................................|
.........................................|
.........................................|
.........................................|
...............Socialisers........|..................Explorers
................................INTERACTING


His model bears up well, even though it is now several years old. With the understanding that players can be plotted on this graph in an seemingly infinite variety of shades, it can be shown that a direct correlation exists between this hypothetical model and players who come to SWG. Looking at the basic character archetypes available prior to the CURB, it seems obvious that SOE recognized this model and provided paths of advancement for players within those four main playtypes. Brawlers and marksmen were flavors designed to cater to the Killer/Achiever types. Scouts obviously relate well to the Explorer side of the equation. Entertainers are our obvious socializers, medics often fell into the socializer mode, playing character types that preferred to interact with other players in a non-combative manner and artisans rounded out the base choices with their cross focus on socializing and Achieving.


Certainly, this is a simplistic understanding. I believe one of the genius points of SOE in SWG was the ability to mix and match. The ability to master three professions and dabble in a fourth was brilliant. If one really enjoyed the upper half of the matrix, the ability to achieve proficiency in a large number of combat arts was available. Similarly with Artisans, and the ability to settle down and become a productive and valued member of the meta-game community, and the in-game community via guilds etc, was similarly open and encouraged.


Were there disadvantages to a strong focus such as this? Very much so! Combat focused characters were dependent upon artisans for their equipment. The generation of an in game economy, that can only have been crafted at the hands of Raph Koster after having read his work, was sublime. Crafters, not able to independently secure wealth, obtained it from the wealthy, unable to independently secure goods. An imperfect, yet relatively stable and harmonious symbiosis was established. Money sinks were placed to drain the credits from the game to reduce inflation to manageable levels – and despite the best efforts of cheaters, was largely successful.


So, all player types were catered for. The Explorer who wanted to see everywhere could. The doctor who wanted to socialize via a medical mindset could. The social butterflies could hang out in the cantinas and bars, dancing and playing music and having fun. Those seeking to kill, kill, kill could indulge in PvE, PvP and even internicene guild wars should they choose Artisans could place their harvesters, make their goods and wait for the world to beat a path to their door.


Then, the CURB. Besides instituting a side of the game that I agree wholeheartedly could have used a revamp, the team at SoE went further, and I believe, beyond their mandate. Not only did they make SWG based combat more intuitive and tactical, bringing greater challenge and reward to those players who predominated on the Achiever/Killer side of the spectrum, but they significantly re-imagineered the other side of the matrix as well.


Consider a doctor. Once a bastion of peace – useful to have around in a fight, but even more useful to have around in a medical center (Spamming buffs in front of the starport notwithstanding) – they are now completely unable to access the social dynamic of the game. Note well that this does not mean that they cannot group. I’m not using the term in place of interaction or to imply a sense of isolation, but in the Bartletarian manner to describe a set of goals and overarching playstyle. Now, the only way a doctor can gain medical experience is during combat. Excuse me? What happened to the plethora of players who enjoyed the low key approach to their skills and abilities that wanted to act in a support type role, out of harms way and engage in healing? Why are doctors now pseudo-combat medics?


Of course, there are those who will point out that keeping the doctor alive is more tactical. But who is that fun for? Remembering our matrix, it’s fun for the killers and achievers. It’s not fun for the explorers and socializers who have to dance around the periphery of a fight hoping to god that they don’t draw any agro. Given that players can now heal themselves with stim paks, negating even the ‘heal to survive the fight’ element a doctor might add, what possible incentive can exist for a doctor to group if their predilection is not in the killer/achiever half of the matrix?
Or crafters, for example. With no combat skills whatsoever, it is possible to be smacked to death by even the most juvenile and low level critters in the game. When confronted with this inadequacy, SOE’s response was that crafters needed to group to visit harvesters and no other exemptions would be made for them.


This is inequitable. Killers/Achievers were promised that they would not be forced to group to participate fully in their playstyle. They would be able to hunt solo, requiring groups only as they chose to create them to tackle some of the larger challenges in the game. This is sound game design and I applaud it. But why now is the crafter forced to group to get to a harvester? Why are the killers/achievers rewarded with greater opportunity to indulge their playstyle whilst those others are forced to play against type?


Even the ‘group to harvest’ arrangement is fundamentally flawed. Consider the killer/achiever. Her primary motivation is the accumulation of power, wealth and reward. Why in god’s green creation would they put aside the pursuit of those goals to come kill creatures that offer them no experience, no challenge and no reward. The last few days I have searched high and low on my server for a master creature handler to train a mount for me without luck. I can only imagine that finding players willing to invest a couple of hours of limited game time to stand sentry for me whilst I add power and maintenance and deduct resources from my harvesters will be a similar experience. Sure, I can offer grandiose payments as incentive, but most killer/achievers can head to Lok – or shortly, Kyyshakk, and make an even greater fortune running missions that it is possible for me to pay. It’s unjust. It’s inequitable. It’s a squeeze on legitimate playstyles that, as far as I know, are (hehe.. were..) uniquely conceived and made available for gamers playing MMORPG games.
The following long quote comes from a game design document for MUSHing that can be read in its entirety here:


http://mu.ranter.net/theory/printversion.html&e=9801


“One of the things that separates a really well-designed role playing game from a hack and slash through a single corridor is the concept of choice. Players need to be able to have choices, and those choices have to matter. A player should be able to pick and choose a course of action for his character from as wide a variety of possibilities as is feasible, and while some of these choices will be obviously stupid ones, there should not be only one option for becoming "heroic." Unfortunately, the nature of modern CRPG design seems to mandate that players kill stuff and rob it, due to the relative ease of focusing on combat only as a path of advancement, as well as the "monsteritis" syndrome that relegates all non-player characters to the role of "thing that sits around waiting for players to attack it."


“The most elementary system for expanding the number of options open to a player is meaningful craft skills. This means artisan trades that players can explore that exist for some reason besides equipping "real" characters who go out to kill stuff. In a world where food is required by PC's and NPC's alike, agronomy and foraging could be important skills, as could hunting game. Indeed, a nomadic character who stays away from town would need these abilities, even if he supplements his rations by murdering other players for their salt pork and waybread. If food is not required, other skills would certainly be valuable, like leatherworking, ore refining, smithy, woodwork, bowyery... the classics, as it were. If the engine is sophisticated enough to track the construction of new buildings over time, carpentry and architecture take on new possibilities. Cartography, dowsing, herbalism, medicine, tinsmithy... trade skills can number in the hundreds easily, limited only by the complexities of code and the ability of developers to think outside of the norm when considering trade skills.


“Some of the most rewarding aspects of playing an RPG for some players lies in the less quantifiable pursuits like diplomacy, the acquisition of a title, political influence, and inter-community trade. These are more difficult to simulate in a system relying on hard code, as by and large these are subjective skills, not measurable in terms of points. However, one can always start somewhere. The acquisition of titles like "Grand Master of the Four Flowers School of Swordsmanship" can be done through quests, say to prove one's worth in a contest of skill at the school, assuming one has spent enough time there to qualify for the test in the first place. This sort of contest is nice, because it doesn't confer anything but a title and bragging rights, but only one person (presumably) can be Grand Master of any one school. This provides an avenue of competition amongst players that doesn't involve PvP, which is nice for those not inclined toward human conflict. Acquiring the title of Ambassador may require several successful missions to neighboring city-states (although the heuristics determining a successful negotion would be rough indeed), and may confer on that player some extra status in his hometown that could translate into legal flexibility, or even better prices at the market. To gain more standing in the Merchant's Guild might require successful caravans full of needed supplies to dangerous zones, and might confer similar price benefits and a certain amount of credit, plus economic flexibility between regions if your monentary system is realistically diversified. A Master of Lore, accredited by the not-so-local Wizarding College, would have demonstrated a high degree of aptitude in several areas of arcane knowledge, and would maybe gain access to some interesting (though not utterly powerful) incantations, probably of an informational nature, and better availability of ingredients, plus access to restricted tomes and such.”


That quote is something the game designers, or at least the SOE muckettymucks seem to have stepped away from after starting out almost two years ago almost exactly from that place. The monsteritis syndrome of paragraph one could equally now be applied to non-combat oriented characters in SWG who are now the “thing that sits around waiting for real players to help it”. Perhaps the numbers tell them that the artisan/doctor demographic can quickly and easily be replaced by incoming hordes of gamers eager to play a more combat (ie, Killer/Achiever) oriented game and profits will soar. If so, I understand the need to address the shareholders and the bottom line as well as the fiscal responsibilities SOE has in that regard. However, I believe that they also have a responsibility to their customer base. I believe they have a duty to effect change and upgrades that offer equity and opportunity to all player styles. Not equally in every upgrade, of course. Nothing is wrong with a focus here and a focus there in different patches – but it is only the Lord God’s prerogative to giveth and taketh away. SOE urgently needs to address the disenfranchisement they have bestowed on a considerable portion of the player base by a negation of their ability to play within their portion of the needs and expectations matrix in a meaningful and engaging way.


That’s why I believe the CURB fails. That is why I am terribly disappointed by it and those are the issues that I would only hope SOE step up and say “We at least hear and understand your pain. Fixes will not be immediate nor all encompassing but we will work with you all to bring enjoyment to all our players, regardless of your particular playstyle.”



The link where this post was made: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=cudiscussiontemp&message.id=24197#M24197

MrSemi
Thu May 05, 2005 1:22 pm
#2

That's a good read. Thanks for posting the link. I'm bookmarking it reference later when hopefully my brain will be large enough to comprehend all those intricate psyche's.


It hurt my head.





Temper Vale||Alizar||-DFR-||

Ojes
Thu May 05, 2005 2:03 pm
#3

/applaud


Very well stated (and referenced). The non-combat part of the game has taken a huge hit. Hopefully it will recover over time.





while on Flurry, don't visit Ojes Yobe's Liquidation Vendors just 800M from Theed starport on Naboo (neg5219 3419) - cause they ain't there anymore! They are now exclusively located in Mos Athens Mall
UmmonPrime
Thu May 05, 2005 2:32 pm
#4

One of the longest post I have ever seen here. Very very well written and informative. I agree with pretty much all of it. I think SOE had it right the first time and with some minor tweaks, it would had been perfect....



Elood- Trader - Retired AS/SW

Elood'- Jedi- I know, I suck. Bite me

Dark Sword, Naboo 6932 2054 Loots


Nihuacatelco
Thu May 05, 2005 11:28 pm
#5


Great post, and great research, it helped make concrete some ideas i felt about the game.


I had always felt that one of the best aspects of the game was the choice a player had in choosing his path to and how there were unique aspecs of the game that helped people reach certain goals, the politicians and guild leaders who have created massive organizations and events, the people who enjoyed looting every different piece of anything that could be found, crafters who want to make a fortune. And many of the points in that quote were really achieved, crafting is completely the realm of artisans, looted weapons of high quality are rare and many of the best weapons crafted, although with looted components. The other realms of achievement are also possible, through guilds and people that haveachieved fameand are recognized because of achievements that are not as tangible as being a level 80 whatever. Hopefully the CURB will balance out and we can keep the diversity that makes this game so enjoyable.




Osoe
"I plan to live forever
or die trying"

Dark Jedi Padawan
-NRA-
gnn[[[[[[[[[[$nnnWX9gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)

Quemine
Thu May 05, 2005 11:50 pm
#6

I also think this game has taken a serious blow to the crafting/socializing aspect. When this game came out, I started as a medic and was very surprised you could actually gain skills without having to go into combat. This made swg somewhat unique, now it's just one of many.. The combat upgrade was needed, but it leaves many of the non-combat professions less fun and desirable.



Quemine Aweron / Caeron Auger
NWW Ranger
Medical Resources, Components, Supplies, Food & Drinks Vendor
Vesania, Corellia, 4639 -6000
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