Doctor Archive
Thread: Question about Combat Balance and Buffs..
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Ibicus
Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:31 pm
#1
Hello, first off let me start by giving all you doctors my praise. I know alot of people call you bad names sometimes and accuse you of being greedy sob's and what not, but NOT I. Idepend on every doctor I meet and make overtipping my policy due to the fact that the template I have chosen in SWG has no room for novice medic..which leads to the root of my question..Seeing as how you all probably spend alot of time here where as I don't, have any of you heard to what extent buffs will be lowered in the CB? This is not only detrimental to my future in SWG, but to each one of you as well conserning the use of having doctors on a whole inthe game if your buffs will be relatively low and low duration vrs eating foods all the time to replace you.
Ibicus Nim
RommiLancaster
Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:34 pm
#2
Hi there, sorry but I haven't heard anything concerning how "buffs" will be affected in the combat rebalance, all I presume is that it will be put in the HAM section which is stage 3 of 4. I would like to know even just a little of how things will change, but I won't be dropping Master Doctor regardless of any changes. I like the profession and have stuck with it since I first started
Roustabout
Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:02 pm
#3
Well my guess is a limited nerf if any. The CB will include armor hit, weapon power hit, specials having pools (no more spamming), etc... The problem currently (if you consider it a problem which I don't) is that with armor AND buffs you are very powerful. Look at the jedi now, they are getting torn up without resists on their low level robes. I think that a hit in armor, plus the other stuff I mentioned, and maybe a reduction of buffs to 75 or 80% would be a fair trade.
Honestly if you go under that you're going to see the DWB, Corvette, and even Geo caves be very very tough places to do in a group much less solo.
If nothing else I hope that buffs do not become functionally worthless since I've spent a lot of time collecting resources and I wouldn't appreciate all of that time being for naught.
Billreb
Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:42 pm
#4
But the Geo Labs, Deatwatch etc are suppose to be hard and in all likelyhood should not be soloable. What I would prefer to see is not so much armour taking a hit in the balance but doc buffs in general, Can't begin to think that pushing all players stat pools 3X, is reasonable and is all but killing PVP, thanks to making the mind pool the only real viable target giving rise to CM's and Rifles power in PVP.
tyggr
Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:39 am
#5
Billreb wrote:But the Geo Labs, Deatwatch etc are suppose to be hard and in all likelyhood should not be soloable. What I would prefer to see is not so much armour taking a hit in the balance but doc buffs in general, Can't begin to think that pushing all players stat pools 3X, is reasonable and is all but killing PVP, thanks to making the mind pool the only real viable target giving rise to CM's and Rifles power in PVP.
It is the combination of buffs and armor that is doing this not just one or the other. I usually fight buffed with no armor...and do just fine in normal mission PvE. But, believe me, when I walk into the Geo Cave, the DWB, or the Corvette, that armor goes on! With just buffs in any of those places, your 3000+ HAM would go down to nothing fast. But you put on that nice 80-90% Kinetic 74%Base armor and you are golden.
Both will be adjusted in the Combat Balance, but it is all speculation as to how and how much. I have just adopted a wait and see kind of attitude as far as that goes.
Roustabout
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:00 am
#6
Billreb wrote:
But the Geo Labs, Deatwatch etc are suppose to be hard and in all likelyhood should not be soloable. What I would prefer to see is not so much armour taking a hit in the balance but doc buffs in general, Can't begin to think that pushing all players stat pools 3X, is reasonable and is all but killing PVP, thanks to making the mind pool the only real viable target giving rise to CM's and Rifles power in PVP.
It's unreasonable suggestions like this that kill me. Like the poster above me said it's the combination. I never said that they should be soloable, butmy arguments were a reduction of buffs to 80% plus armor nerfs, weapons nerfs, etc... they won't be soloable anymore and in fact be quite a bit harder. A further reduction to buffs not only cheapens my resources collected, but truly makes places like DWB impossible with just one group.
If you truly think 90% armor shouldn't get hit and doc buffs should then I am just speechless.
You're one of the vocal ppl in the game who want to completely destroy doctor buffs. The problem is you probably do not craft them and so take no hit in this process. I on the other hand will lose tons of money when my resources and final products are devalued. A mild hit to both armor and buffs will produce mid to major results thus alleviating the soloing problem (as some, not I, call it.)
Billreb
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:54 am
#7
What a second I never said that armour should be in the 90's, but the ablity to spam specials does not make anything actually interesting rather turns combat to a mindnumbing spaming of your favorite hotkey. The larger problem with armour is the fact that HAM costs are never taken into account in crafting since no one really considers them in combat since they get buffed to wear it, every AS spends there experimintaion points into purely armour's effectiveness or the occasional durablity. And yes I have spent my fair ammount of time in medic, even if I haven't don't give me that malrkey that since" Your not a Doctor, you can have no opions or dare say anything about anything or anyone." 
Roustabout
Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:02 pm
#8
Billreb wrote:
What a second I never said that armour should be in the 90's, but the ablity to spam specials does not make anything actually interesting rather turns combat to a mindnumbing spaming of your favorite hotkey. The larger problem with armour is the fact that HAM costs are never taken into account in crafting since no one really considers them in combat since they get buffed to wear it, every AS spends there experimintaion points into purely armour's effectiveness or the occasional durablity. And yes I have spent my fair ammount of time in medic, even if I haven't don't give me that malrkey that since" Your not a Doctor, you can have no opions or dare say anything about anything or anyone."
1. I never said you can't have opinions. However you proved my point that you haven't been a crafting doctor and therefore do not realize what you are asking. Let me nerf all professions profit by about 90% and make their master box useless...ah, now we're on the same page.
2. It is positive that specials will get their own pool points in the revamp...no more spamming specials (which I agree is lame) I also don't know what armorsmith your frequenting that doesn't care about HAM...on Tempest it is of great concern, specially the mind.
3. That's fine that you don't think armor should be in the 90's but the fact remains it can be. It is hand in hand, simply calling for a buff nerf will not fix the problem which ppl seem to think exists.
Hariku
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:30 pm
#9
Speaking as a Doctor who went on a lot of guild hunts before buffs and composite armor became a near-mandatory presence in the high end game, I'm hoping to see both armor and buffs scaled down. I miss the days where rancors, kimos and krayts were creatures even a large sized group feared. However, combat in SWG has become such a complex system to change.
Initially, my feeling was capping armor at 50% (though with a higher cap if sliced) and limiting Doc buffs to a 100% buff (i.e. if you have 600 Quickness, a Doc can give you a total of 1200) would be a great idea -- and, in many hunting situations, it would be just fine. But people have become so accustomed to rancors, kimos, and even krayts being huntable in very small groups (or even solo) that it'd be a very tough pill to swallow to suddenly go back to former days of large expeditions. And the addition of the Geo Caves, DWB, and Corvette (with the infamous smattering of SBDs) only makes it even harder to come up with suitable tweaks.
Clearly, however, Doctor buffs are in for a change, possibly drastic. And, clearly, it isn't without reason. It's just not fair that the largest, most versatile, longest lasting, andbest-selling buff in the game should also be the one buff that has absolutely no drawback (no filling, no downer, etc). Over the past few months, I've gone from feeling like a Doctor of the injured to a Dealer of the addicted.
Hariku, Master Doctor of Eclipse
Oatik-OneShot
Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:42 am
#10
I only worry that all the changesmay go too far. With changes planned for weapons, buffs, armor, and thecombat abilities of the professions themselves, it can easilygo to the point that you can't do much of the interesting areas w/o forming a large party (similar to the early days in the game). Personally, I like the old days and enjoy the group hunting, but not everyone wants that and a balance needs to be made so you can solo some areas and need a group for others.
In my opinion, and similar to Hariku said, put an unsliced max on composite armor and weapons with the max being reached using the high end resources. Set buffs at a reduced level but not to the point of only doubling the stat pools (I can invision the lines at the ID tent already). There has to be an incentive for all the resource gathering that is required so set a max on the buff pack power and lower the casting multiple. I believe it is around 2x power, when not using bivoli or bio-clothes, so lower it to 1.25x or some other appropriate level.
But, overall, let's not go to the point where groups are mandatory and doc buffs, one of our few good money making opportunities, fall drastically in demand.We all know, at least on my server, that no-one tips or pays for heals anymore....they only payfor buffs.
I look forward to the changes and will wait and see what the outcome isbut I've been a doctor from the beginning and will be one in the end.
DragoMusevni
Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:38 pm
#11
I've been here since July of 2003, and I remember the PVE game back in the day. And what they are going to force us to do, is revisit the days of Creature Handler. By increasing melee defense, they made CH unnecesary (like they wanted to) because melees are now the new tanks. Without buffs OR armor, melees will be ineffective in our role as tanks in the high end game, and you will see a re-emergence of CH/bio engineers making creatures with exceptional kinetic resist. DO YOU want to see the creature cluster **edit** that was this game a year ago, I certainly don't.
hambokc7mrp
Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:52 am
#12
just like everquest the power gamers are on a run a way.
all the dev effort was sucked up in an effort to please them.
if the best buff is nurfed to 500 points and the master doc wants 10k for it
then they will still get it.
I am not a buff bot anyhow maybe all thoes docs crafting meds and sitting in town collecting
money may have to find something else to do.
now on the down side I realise the extreem effort that goes into collecting the uber resources to make
great componets then the uber resources to go with the componets to make the uber buff packs
i just want to be able to hit people with resist poison/disease
to be able to heal and buff in side the corvet and the geo cave
i would like to see some content that is not custom designed specificly for the PvP/PvE power gamers
alinko master doc/0444 pistoleer/surveyer
starsider
Songe
Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:31 am
#13
Having buffs will always be better than having none. I'm sure of it.
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