Doctor Archive

Thread: Redesigning Buffs

VemaGara
Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:32 am
#1

Here are the problems with buffs:
- There's no incentive to use lesser buffs
- There's no penalty to using better buffs
- Experimenting in one line gets you both power and duration
- Buffs effectively remove the need for a doctor in a group
- People waiting in line is not fun

With those challenges, here are the stats that I see as important to a redesigned buff. Each of these should be a seperate experiment line:

Duration - how long
Power - how much
Charges - how many
Med Rating - who can use?
Battle Fatigue - penalty
Wounds - penalty

The first move is to seperate both power and duration. You can have one or the other, but not both. Even if this was the only thing changed about buffs, it would make a world of difference. Mathematically, power and duration should be inversely proportional. Increasing one decreases the other.

The next is to create a niche for each buff.

Buff-A - the initial buff. Very few mind wounds or battle fatigue even at max strength. Made with any material. One shot buffs all physical stats. Very quick to administer.
Buff-B - the best grouping buff. Short duration, strong buff. Very little battle fatigue and few wounds. One shot for red stats and one shot for green stats. Moderate to administer.
Buff-C - the best solo buff. Causes some mind wounds and much battle fatigue. One shot for physical red stats and one shot for green stats. Moderate to administer.
Buff-D - the "best" buff. Causes significant mind wounds and significant battle fatigue. One shot for each physical stat. Slow to administer.

This system encourages the following:
- Groups have a reason to include doctors. The buffs with the lowest side-affects are also the ones with shorter durations.
- Lower level buffs are quicker to administer, which means a much shorter wait.
- Players get to choose risk/reward to using each buff.
- Masters players encountering high-end content will want the most harmful buffs because the risk/payoff is worth the penalties.
- The "best buffs" will be avoided as causing too many problems. They won't be as good for grinding missions.
- Players get a choice between power (higher payout) and duration (fewer visits $$$ to the doctor).
- Entertainers get more visits.



Dr. Vema Gara
Master Doctor, Master Fencer
Imperial Ace (solo), Imperial Inquisition
Valcyn
(Sophitia, Trinidad on Test)
iphe
Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:07 am
#2

Good ideas. Good job man.



Iphe--- Ahazi!!!!
Master Swordsman / Master Doctor / Jedi "Class of March 2005"

"why do you want me to buff your dwarf nuna?"
captenjonny
Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:17 am
#3

Good Ideas? Yes.

Way to difficult for the devs though. Easier just to nerf the crap out of them. That's where my bet is.

But good ideas none the less.



Captain Jonny
iphe
Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:29 am
#4






captenjonny wrote:
Good Ideas? Yes.

Way to difficult for the devs though. Easier just to nerf the crap out of them. That's where my bet is.

But good ideas none the less.



thats the truth




Iphe--- Ahazi!!!!
Master Swordsman / Master Doctor / Jedi "Class of March 2005"

"why do you want me to buff your dwarf nuna?"
VemaGara
Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:38 am
#5

Well, I figure, now is the time to speak up. Maybe we can get a good revamp of the system, rather than just a nerf.



Dr. Vema Gara
Master Doctor, Master Fencer
Imperial Ace (solo), Imperial Inquisition
Valcyn
(Sophitia, Trinidad on Test)
Exaero
Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:10 am
#6






VemaGara wrote:
- Buffs effectively remove the need for a doctor in a group

Buff-D - the "best" buff. Causes significant mind wounds and significant battle fatigue. One shot for each physical stat. Slow to administer.

This system encourages the following:
- Groups have a reason to include doctors. The buffs with the lowest side-affects are also the ones with shorter durations.
- Lower level buffs are quicker to administer, which means a much shorter wait.
- Masters players encountering high-end content will want the most harmful buffs because the risk/payoff is worth the penalties.
- The "best buffs" will be avoided as causing too many problems. They won't be as good for grinding missions.
- Players get a choice between power (higher payout) and duration (fewer visits $$$ to the doctor).




Let me play Devil's advocate for a second.


[devils_advocate]


What I have quoted is very silly. I also find the bold section VERY silly. The first bolded problem is that you don't pvp much do you? Doc's are REQUIRED! For pvp, if you don't have a doc in the group you might aswell be done. Jedi use 500 Force to all heal someone and that doesn't even elimnate fire! No one, I mean NO ONE would want lower level buffs. Reason being get buffed beside a cantina? Mind wounds and BF done in what 1 minute at most(depending on how much you want to inflict)? This would do nothing to the game essentially.


[/devils_advocate]


In a summary Doc's are in pvp groups as it is neccessary (I would know). I don't see how these penalties will do anything towards hardcore people. Thats my opinion on this matter. Flame me if you want but I've participated in PvP that contains 2 full groups(40 people).


Note: I do like how you to the initiate, and I mean every word typed out of sheer respect for youand from the point of view I believe a Dev would have.




Jedi toon -- ?

coD retsaM\namelfiR retsaM -- oreaxE

The opinion in this post in no way reflects the opinions of any member of FIGHT Club (excluding me) or its leaders.

TheRockStar
Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:12 am
#7

By addressing your points I think I can express what I would personally like to see happen with buffs:

- incentive for lesser buffs: Longer duration

- penalty for better buffs: Shorter duration

- Experimentation - yes needs to be split somehow to accomodate the above


Not really interested in the other two points, I have a great time as a doc in groups, and I'm not a buffer (and never will be) - and by that I mean the kind of person who sits there for hours on end in Coro spamming buff macros. Not that I'm against anyone who does it, but that I have much more fun out playing the game with my friends... so queues? I buff my guild and group and they wait as long as it takes!


However, back to the point, I'm hoping that will be how buffs change - great stats = short duration, e.g. maybe up to 1k stat buff for 60 mins, ranging to 400 stat buff to 180 mins, or something along those lines... with the experimentation lines reflecting this



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VemaGara
Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:24 am
#8



Exaero wrote:


VemaGara wrote:
- Buffs effectively remove the need for a doctor in a group

Buff-D - the "best" buff. Causes significant mind wounds and significant battle fatigue. One shot for each physical stat. Slow to administer.

This system encourages the following:
- Groups have a reason to include doctors. The buffs with the lowest side-affects are also the ones with shorter durations.
- Lower level buffs are quicker to administer, which means a much shorter wait.
- Masters players encountering high-end content will want the most harmful buffs because the risk/payoff is worth the penalties.
- The "best buffs" will be avoided as causing too many problems. They won't be as good for grinding missions.
- Players get a choice between power (higher payout) and duration (fewer visits $$$ to the doctor).

Let me play Devil's advocate for a second.

[devils_advocate]

What I have quoted is very silly. I also find the bold section VERY silly. The first bolded problem is that you don't pvp much do you? Doc's are REQUIRED! For pvp, if you don't have a doc in the group you might aswell be done. Jedi use 500 Force to all heal someone and that doesn't even elimnate fire! No one, I mean NO ONE would want lower level buffs. Reason being get buffed beside a cantina? Mind wounds and BF done in what 1 minute at most(depending on how much you want to inflict)? This would do nothing to the game essentially.

[/devils_advocate]

In a summary Doc's are in pvp groups as it is neccessary (I would know). I don't see how these penalties will do anything towards hardcore people. Thats my opinion on this matter. Flame me if you want but I've participated in PvP that contains 2 full groups(40 people).

Note: I do like how you to the initiate, and I mean every word typed out of sheer respect for youand from the point of view I believe a Dev would have.






Thanks for the complement.

You are correct. I did not think about PvP. I just don't KNOW. But as everyone has had a tough time balancing for PvP, it's no surprise that I missed on those counts, too.

Here are the main problems that I hear about PvP (past and present):
- Unbuffed PvPers die too fast.
- You need buffs to compete.
- Duals take forever.

I have no idea how to address those. Where's the middle? This takes us to meds. This takes us to armor. This takes us to the way weapons and specials are used. Ouch! No wonder this rebalanced turned into a full revamp.

- How do you design a good PvP buff that doesn't imbalance PvE or PvP?
- How do you design a buff that leads players to use it for PvP over PvE?
- How do you design a buff that leads players to use it for PvE but not PvP?
- How do you design a buff that the players view as useful and worth their time?

Thanks for the good criticism.



Dr. Vema Gara
Master Doctor, Master Fencer
Imperial Ace (solo), Imperial Inquisition
Valcyn
(Sophitia, Trinidad on Test)
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