Doctor Archive

Apost the other day asking about OQ vs PE issues got me thinking about crafting and I did an experiment with adv. liquid suspensions. I'm curious whether anyone else has similar findings, or something that disagrees with my results. Also I'm sure at least some of this is already common knowledge, but I'm just throwing it all out there. I won't bore everyone with all my math, but if anyone is interested let me know and I'll post. Heres a summary of my results:

1. Crafting station and crafting tool rating make no difference to the stats of the final product. I tried two different tools each on two different stations, in all cases I was able to experiment the same %, as well as raw power number. Also the item always had the same starting stats (% and power number). Crafting stations/tools may affect the crit failure results from what I hear, but I didn't go that far myself, was only testing for the liquid suspension stats.

2. OQ and PE of the resources affect only the starting power number and its %, and the max power number and % you can experiment to. For instance via the OQ - 66% PE - 33% formula one of my resource sets would come to 78.9%. It started with 21% effectiveness for 50 power and capped at 78% effectiveness at 159 power. While another set was 85.6% it started with 23% effectiveness for 55 power, and capped at 85%for 172 power. The interesting point being that regardless of resource stats if you can experiment it 50% it will be the same power as any other resources stats also experimented to 50%.

3. Base value seems to be 11. Math predicted anywhere from 9 - 12 depending on the experiment, however I finally did crit fail the experimentation down to 0 % and it was 11 power, so that seems to be the exact base value.

4. The total variance possible in experimentation seems to be around 190. again different experiments yielded slightly different results, but in the neighborhood of 188 - 192. This also seemed to be unaffected by resource stats. This combined with step 3 seems to indicate a range of 11 - 201 for the final power.

I was most suprised to find that the resource stats only affected the started value (no experimentation) of the liquid suspension and the max possible % effectiveness you could experiment upto, nothing else. Note that there is no malleability on either resource for the advanced liquid suspensions, I've heard that affects experimentation and I wanted to avoid it.

Comments?

---Lyrn

---Scylla

1. Correct. They also may not affect number of crit failures or probably of a great/amazing success. What an experimented crafting station or tool actually does is basically unknown at this point.

2. Also correct. The starting point is simply some percentage of the potential end point. So even if you don't have enough experimentation points to max something out, better resources will still produce a marginally better product since you start a but higher.

3. As a side note - the advanced components appear to begin where the non-advanced components leave off. So a 0% ALS is the same as a 100% LS. This may not hold in all cases, but it appears tobehave like this from a very cursory look. So that ACDRM made with 100OQ herbivore meat and 100OQ class 4 is still better than a CDRM (though it does use a lot more resources).

4.Correct for ALSs. 10-200 seems to be about the range. We've had other threads discussing the ranges of other components.

While the last big patch (the mount patch) was being tested on test center, they had quality of resources affect how much a benefit a great success would yield. Under that system, you needed 10 great successes to max out a line, whether that was with good resources (say 30% start to 100% finish) or garbage resource (15% start to 50% finish). They pulled this code under protest from crafters. So now, a great success seems to yield about 7% every time (up to the max for your resources).

It's important to understand what that pecentage means when you're experimenting. Basically, that's the perctange of "perfection" you've managed to obtain with this particular item. At 50%, you'd have an absolutely average advanced liquid suspension. At 100%, you'd have a perfect liquid suspension, the best there could ever be.

Although it's quite possible to reach 50% with mediocre resources, you'll never reach 100% as it's the quality of teh resources that determines the maximum percentage you can reach (they so also help determine the starting percentage, but not by much).

Therefore, high quality resources might allow you to reach 80% perfection while mediocre resources would only allow you to reach 50%.

Its actually pretty simple to figure out the max percentage you can get. Take the two percentages that the schematic uses say 66% OQ 33% PE and then Resource (OQ * .66 + Resource PE * .33) / 10 = possible %. If you do that on a percentage level with all of the resources as a fraction of a whole you can come out with the actual max percentage. This works better for things that only use one resource, not common in doc stuff, but if you think about it the devs came up with a formula and thats what the program uses. They've proven they aren'tsuper geniuses so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out with a lil math. Yeah and crafting station effectiveness does NOTHING never has and most likely never will...

---

Rutabega wrote:
[snip]

Yeah and crafting station effectiveness does NOTHING never has and most likely never will...

---

That's not true, it's just not a huge modifier and there have been some suggestions that negative tools, at least (and some suggest stations as well) are actually the better ones to use because of a likely bug in the formula. The tools and stations only reduce the overall number of successes you are likely to have and their level, so you are likely to see more Great successes than Moderate ones, for example.

Another thing that a lot of people miss is that the base and max effectiveness on a schematic with subcomponents will be completely dependent on the quality of the subs used. The only thing that the resources used in the final combine affect is what percentage you can get toof the theoretical max that is derived from the subcomponent values. I know it seems obvious, but many people I talk to in-game miss this fact.