Doctor Archive
Thread: Buff Prices Time for an increase I think.
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Eyedun
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:55 pm
#1
ok, follow me on this.
With a generic 2300 - 3 hr buff people are able to make ALOT more money than the modest Dr buffing them at the star port.
30 charges in a set of packs. Set of packs are what.. 20K each ? (packs not crates people). You sit for 3 hours and apply one set of packs every 5 mins lets say (we all know it can be done much faster). Thats 36 people you buff. Congrats, you just got 360K !!. The packs cost you 120K, you make 240K. Wow!! your in the big time !
Mr TKM gets one of your buff's, 3 hours, 2300, bleh.. nothting to write home about. He heads to Dant, messages the person yelling "FORMING SOLO GROUP - PST" and gets his 2 30K Janta Shaman missions and heads on out. He spams his specials, taking on all 5 shamans and even goes to make himself a sandwich while his imortal uber buff'd TKM dispatches the miscreants. He heads back to the outpost 15 mins later, 60K richer. Over the course of his 3 hours he racks up over 600K in credits.. wow.. uber!
mean while our doc packs up, amidst the calls of "d00d bufz0r meh s0z 1 c4n b3 l33t!" and "10K OMG thats robbery.. my friend does it for 8K!!" and the barrage of tells, wrong tips and general grief. he's been staring hard at the screen for 3 hours. He takes his hard earned 240K and heads out to buy more buff packs (cant yet afford the uber crates of buffs).
While he earnt his 240K, the 30 people he buff'd earnt 600K each, 18 Million credits. (yeah yeah not everyone runs mission, ok, 10 million then). You dont think maybe he should charge a little more? Seeing as how supposedly you cant do anything in this game without buff's I think we Dr's deserve a little more of the credits flying around.
Personally my formula is Buff amount * 6 * Number hours-1 . This works well for both uber and novice Drs. (2300 for 3 hours is 2300*6*2=27600 .. or a newbie Dr 1500*6*1.25=11250)
With the uber buff's costing more, there will be much more demand for the novice Dr buffs (ya know, the 1200 for 45 min buffs which is 5400 credits btw).. and Drs wont need to sit idly in the med center healing tumblers and the occasional lost PC.
Its time for us Drs to get a bigger slice of the pie.
Discuss
With a generic 2300 - 3 hr buff people are able to make ALOT more money than the modest Dr buffing them at the star port.
30 charges in a set of packs. Set of packs are what.. 20K each ? (packs not crates people). You sit for 3 hours and apply one set of packs every 5 mins lets say (we all know it can be done much faster). Thats 36 people you buff. Congrats, you just got 360K !!. The packs cost you 120K, you make 240K. Wow!! your in the big time !
Mr TKM gets one of your buff's, 3 hours, 2300, bleh.. nothting to write home about. He heads to Dant, messages the person yelling "FORMING SOLO GROUP - PST" and gets his 2 30K Janta Shaman missions and heads on out. He spams his specials, taking on all 5 shamans and even goes to make himself a sandwich while his imortal uber buff'd TKM dispatches the miscreants. He heads back to the outpost 15 mins later, 60K richer. Over the course of his 3 hours he racks up over 600K in credits.. wow.. uber!
mean while our doc packs up, amidst the calls of "d00d bufz0r meh s0z 1 c4n b3 l33t!" and "10K OMG thats robbery.. my friend does it for 8K!!" and the barrage of tells, wrong tips and general grief. he's been staring hard at the screen for 3 hours. He takes his hard earned 240K and heads out to buy more buff packs (cant yet afford the uber crates of buffs).
While he earnt his 240K, the 30 people he buff'd earnt 600K each, 18 Million credits. (yeah yeah not everyone runs mission, ok, 10 million then). You dont think maybe he should charge a little more? Seeing as how supposedly you cant do anything in this game without buff's I think we Dr's deserve a little more of the credits flying around.
Personally my formula is Buff amount * 6 * Number hours-1 . This works well for both uber and novice Drs. (2300 for 3 hours is 2300*6*2=27600 .. or a newbie Dr 1500*6*1.25=11250)
With the uber buff's costing more, there will be much more demand for the novice Dr buffs (ya know, the 1200 for 45 min buffs which is 5400 credits btw).. and Drs wont need to sit idly in the med center healing tumblers and the occasional lost PC.
Its time for us Drs to get a bigger slice of the pie.
Discuss
Agoln
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
#2
If I can make a profit selling buffs for 8k, I will. I dont care how much the other people make, if I am going to make a profit that I feel is necessary to myself, the I will sell it for what I want to sell it for. Go ahead, you can try and sell them for more, and if you are the only one buffing, then they will sell, but once other people start to buff, then the prices go down.
NerfT3hGame
Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:02 pm
#3
How much I would love to charge 27k for a set of buffs... *sigh* but the stubborn people would say I was robbing them, all the abuse we would recieve... if there was some way we could make it so every Doctor in SWG charged 27k for a set of buffs... But there will always be some Doctor who is happy to buff for cheap....
SethWillson
Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:45 pm
#4
Not trying to flame, just adding my opinions.
First and foremost, the ammount of money achievable by the average player is not 600k in those 3 hours. A large portion of those players are non-master combat professions, the most efficient of the master players are in guild or have friend who buff them anyways.
I myself am almost master TK, and I rarely able to pull in more than a few missions in the buff time frame. You need other players to join the "Solo hunting group" that takes time, then you need to make your way out, solo the lair, come all the way back and find yet another group that will allow you to get the missions, lather, rinse, repeat....
The average player, if doing missions the entire three hours is more likely to pull in between 300k-400k. Still not chump change, but thats if they do it the full three hours. I myself usually only have the strength to do two missions, maybe pick up two more and log, and I know many others who feel the same way. So factor in the normal amount of time one will spend on missions, and that 300k-400k drops to about 60k-160k. Still not bad again, but nothing to warrent a buff price increase.
Another large group of players who make up most of what the mission runners don't, are the questers, or group hunters. The people who just head out to check stuff out. Maybe take on the warren, or a factional base, their credit return is even lower...
Point is, sure it seems like a buff increase is needed when you look at the best possible scenario which rarely happens, because i'd say that out of those 30 people buffed, maybe one or two will be the ones to get 400k or so in their buff time. The others will be in the 30k-200k range. So taking prices up yet again will only cause more problems. People do need buffs to play this game, and it shows because as buffs became more of a need, prices for everything else went up as well. Basically people needed buffs, so they did things for more credits, buff prices go up so do the prices for everything else. Not much gets accomplished without doc buffs.
Then there is the final reason in my opinion not to raise prices, for a short time Buffing Docs will rake in the credits, but then the buff pack makers will think "Hmm the buffing docs are getting X amount out of packs that I sell for much cheaper... where's my slice of the pie" Then packs for buffs go to a proportioned rate similar to what they are now. If you think of it, your getting a great return, you get back double of what you put in, if you still really wana make the big bucks without putting almost any investment in,like your description of the combat profession's ability to bring in credits, take up a master combat profession. But then you'll have to invest in good armor, good weapons, getting buffed, transportation... and the time trying to find a group who you will be able to get 30k missions with...
Songe
Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:49 pm
#5
I see both sides, but really if you only do two missions with your buff it's your own fault, it's clearly not a good example at all, just because people like wasting buffs isn't a valid reason to keep their prices down. And anyone claiming that we need buffs to play the game obviously doesn't know how to play his char, and is good for a surprise after the combat revamp.
SethWillson
Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:26 pm
#6
I know what I do with my buffs is my own choice, but i'm also saying that a majority of the big hunts that people do while buffed are not 3 hours runs for 600k. Most only do 2-4 missions. You can't keep prices down people "waste" buffs, but you also can't raise prices based on what people could earn if they spent the three hours doing nothing but 30k missions.
JediGias
Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:34 pm
#7
Im not yelling for buff price increase, though I would like to see them. What I do yell for is to not decrease the buff prices, this is just stupid. For the longest time 2000 power buffs at 2 hours 30 minuets were 10K, now the average is a little higher, but still that vecinity is what we should be doling out for that money. Now, yes you can make money off of buffing for 8K, but you can also make money buffing for 4001 credits if you buy buff packs that are 4K per buff. Why not only make 1 credit of profit? Because people are WILLING to pay more, can afford to pay more, and DO pay more. If you, for some reason, do not know it, the Star Wars economy is just like the real economy. Economy prices are based on supply and demand. CDEF pistols are amazingly common and have low demand, so they are worth very little. Buffs are needed by all and arent always available, so the price should be higher. Now, unless you buffs are less than 2000 power, you should never charge less than 10K. 8K buffs are fine for 1900- lower power buffs but not 2000+.
Now, I have only been talking about places like Coronet and main planets. ALLWAYS add 2K MINIMUM to the price of your buffs when on an outlier planet like Lok, Dantooine, Dathomire and the such. Why? How much are buffs in Coronet? 10K. What is the cost of a round trip ticket to Coronet and back? From 2286 to 4864. Now combine those. The MINIMUM a person would pay is 12286 credits to get buffs from Coronet while on an outlier planet and return to continue hunting. They also waste time and get boared waiting for shuttles. I ALWAYS charge 12K on an outlier planet. Almost no one complains, the few times people have where for these reasons: they had BF didnt notice it and that decreased my buff power (their fault, not mine) and one person complained 12K was too much. I described to him exactly what I stated here, and he changed his tune and implicitly agreed with me. Every customer I tell this to agrees and is HAPPY to pay 12K so they dont have to waste their time going back to Coronet.
Now as I said, I would love to see a buff price increase, but am not clamoring for it. However, I am very displeased with any doc that lowers prices. Especially Undercutters. What the heck is wrong with these people? They are just slime to come in an undercut another Doc. Whenever I see this happen, they go on my bad list, and I have a lot of friends and guild mates so they go on a lot of bad lists. It is one thing to lower your price, which I dont agree with since you can make more money and help other docs to make more money as well if you maintain your prices rather than lowering them, but you are just a jerk is you undercut another doc. I hate these people and hope the burn in a certain place.
If you ever see an undercutting doc, I suggest you post their name on this board and let the rest of us know who to scorn.
Now, I have only been talking about places like Coronet and main planets. ALLWAYS add 2K MINIMUM to the price of your buffs when on an outlier planet like Lok, Dantooine, Dathomire and the such. Why? How much are buffs in Coronet? 10K. What is the cost of a round trip ticket to Coronet and back? From 2286 to 4864. Now combine those. The MINIMUM a person would pay is 12286 credits to get buffs from Coronet while on an outlier planet and return to continue hunting. They also waste time and get boared waiting for shuttles. I ALWAYS charge 12K on an outlier planet. Almost no one complains, the few times people have where for these reasons: they had BF didnt notice it and that decreased my buff power (their fault, not mine) and one person complained 12K was too much. I described to him exactly what I stated here, and he changed his tune and implicitly agreed with me. Every customer I tell this to agrees and is HAPPY to pay 12K so they dont have to waste their time going back to Coronet.
Now as I said, I would love to see a buff price increase, but am not clamoring for it. However, I am very displeased with any doc that lowers prices. Especially Undercutters. What the heck is wrong with these people? They are just slime to come in an undercut another Doc. Whenever I see this happen, they go on my bad list, and I have a lot of friends and guild mates so they go on a lot of bad lists. It is one thing to lower your price, which I dont agree with since you can make more money and help other docs to make more money as well if you maintain your prices rather than lowering them, but you are just a jerk is you undercut another doc. I hate these people and hope the burn in a certain place.
If you ever see an undercutting doc, I suggest you post their name on this board and let the rest of us know who to scorn.
Stainlesss
Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:43 pm
#8
Are you aware just how boring mokk/janta missions are?
You basically ride out, spend under a minute killing the npc's, then attack a pole/kebab stand for a longer time.
Repeat over and over, personally i can't stand it and only do it if I have to.
My experience when doing it is, most people as mentioned above are no where near making 400K+.
When i buff I spend most my time doing other stuff, sometimes it doesn't even pay for the buff, or just a few K extra.
Another thing, most melee Master professions don't need buffs for this.
I can easily spend 30 mins extra doing 4 missions, very limited special use.
These 30 mins are waiting for a buff/shuttle time. If prizes go up, I simply don't buff.
Eyedun
Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:58 pm
#9
Stainlesss wrote:Are you aware just how boring mokk/janta missions are?You basically ride out, spend under a minute killing the npc's, then attack a pole/kebab stand for a longer time.Repeat over and over, personally i can't stand it and only do it if I have to.My experience when doing it is, most people as mentioned above are no where near making 400K+.When i buff I spend most my time doing other stuff, sometimes it doesn't even pay for the buff, or just a few K extra.Another thing, most melee Master professions don't need buffs for this.I can easily spend 30 mins extra doing 4 missions, very limited special use.These 30 mins are waiting for a buff/shuttle time. If prizes go up, I simply don't buff.
yes i am aware - TKM/MD - and i make all my money running missions.. not buffing..
maybe raising the prices and people buffing less would be good for the game.
anyhow i was just trying to spark some discussion, my prices will be going up, but i dont plan on selling buff's to survive.
SethWillson
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:59 pm
#10
I totally understand just wanting to spark up conversation... which is why I wana stress i'm not fanatical about this and I was not trying to flame at all. But I still stand by my thoughts, if only for the fact if buff prices were raised, then the non master docs who buff, and have to buy packs. Or any docs who buy packs will still get the short end of the stick, when the new buff rates become standard and the docs crafting the packs raise their prices as well. Eventually it'll be an endless ping pong match. Although I myself would like to see people buffing less, it's hard to do since money is a driving factor in this game, it's like a line from the movie Basketball... "First you get the job, then you get the Khakis, then you get the girls..." You want nice armor and weapons? Gotta have nice credits, need nice credits? Gotta slave on missions, or hope you can grab some uber loot. Then sadly again the cycle begins again, and the best way to make sure your not wasting time after dying is to buff, cause 10k-15k for buffing is the rightprice to not have to really worry about healing wounds/BF after dying and heading back out to finish the mission.
Also while i'm not for raising buff prices, I am most totally not for lowering them either, in the current economy I feel the 10k-15/16k range is just right. Though master ID's charging 15k-20k for a stat migration since they now have no wait time, I do not feel is "just right" 
Talk about greedy, us docs at least have to use resources we pay for, ID's have totall profit, and people will always need stat migrations. But i'm getting off subject...
Talk about greedy, us docs at least have to use resources we pay for, ID's have totall profit, and people will always need stat migrations. But i'm getting off subject...
Darghan
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:31 pm
#11
I was the only doc in coronet buffing for much of the afternoon. I started at 10k for 3200 buffs.. 3 hours 20 mins. My line didn't drop below 15 people for an hour. I went to 14k and my line dropped to 6 people for about 2 hours .. even when another doc sat down next to me charging 12k for 2450 buffs. People still came to me for buffs, my line never got to the end.
I finally cleared my line after 4 hours when several docs showed up in coronet and dropped the prices to 10k. I stayed at 14k, and went to eat some dinner finally.
People complained about 14k, but sat down and tipped. Is 2k-4k REALLY that much money? Seriously .. you pay more for a shuttle ride.
Personally, I would love to charge 20k+. I almost raised my prices to that today, but I only hit 14k. I might go higher next time, who knows.
I think we could handle a price increase in buffs on Ahazi.
Songe
Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:29 am
#12
Well after reading this it's even more obvious to me that we should increase prices so people stop using buffs to kill kreetles and wasting them. How hard is it to make 20k back? If you really won't run 10k+ missions with them, why do you even need buffs in the first place?If it's for PvP, it's your own choice to do PvP, why should the doc payfor the difference?If people don't want to make money while buffed it's their choice, why should the docs suffer from it? 20k is nothing. The docsshould be spending that time doing janta missions themselves in this case, and they will make more money than buffing people who are too lazy to bother getting the money back then complain about buff prices. We have spoiled them.
droid327
Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:07 am
#13
Keep in mind, too, the fact that the people out there on mission are actually DOING something....they have to sift through the mission terminal, get on their bike, fly out there, kill everything, fly to the next, kill everything, return to the outpost, and repeat. Its a lot of downtime, a lot of boringtime that you cant go AFK at because either you're in combat or you're in transport. Docs buffing arent at risk of dying, all we really need to do is sit in town, and every 2 mins or so target a new player, hit our buff macro and collect our bank tip =) Sure, we COULD try to squeeze our clientele for a little more, but what for? 12k as a base price for buffs is fair enough, when there'scompetition. If the server just reset and you're the only doc on world, then sure charge 25k. Someone in Dantooine today was shouting he'd pay 40k for a buff when there was no doctors around. The profit is there, if you want it that bad =)
edit: another thought, if we start charging more than a mission's payout then people might start deciding not to buff. I know a lot of people log on but arent ready to commit to 3 hours of hardcore grinding; if getting a buff becomes a commitment to run 2-3 mission sets just to break even, a lot of people may decide they'll just wait till tomorrow.
Message Edited by droid327 on 07-07-2004 05:10 AM
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