Doctor Archive
Thread: This will add a twist
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HoboBilly
Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:52 am
#1
Combat
- Healing actions will now garner hate towards your target's enemies
If we didn't already have enough hatredfrom the devs, now we will get it in game too!! What's next?
miodac
Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:14 am
#3
All I here is Waah Waah Waah Whinge Waah Waah Waah
Message Edited by miodac on 04-15-2005 05:15 AM
Loviza
Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:20 am
#4
Well canceling my subscribtion will be the last I do, Ive worked to hard for to long to just quit now. Sounds more and more like a fantasy game to me tho. Feels like they just took a copy of some EQ code and applied it to SWG.Its very known that healers inespecially fantasy games are considered "aggromagnets". The whole new XPand "level" system should also give the same indication.
The crazyness just keeps adding up.
HoboBilly
Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:11 pm
#5
Loviza wrote:
Well canceling my subscribtion will be the last I do, Ive worked to hard for to long to just quit now. Sounds more and more like a fantasy game to me tho. Feels like they just took a copy of some EQ code and applied it to SWG.Its very known that healers inespecially fantasy games are considered "aggromagnets". The whole new XPand "level" system should also give the same indication.
The crazyness just keeps adding up.
I agree, no need to cancel a subscription (yet), but it will be interesting to see how this works in the high end content. I guess we'll have to choose one of the tank combat classes to compliment doctor now in order to take the damage. I'm sure someone will have a snappy flame on this too, but it kinda feels like the walls are closing in on the professions to choose with doctor IMO. I guess it all depends on how well the group fighters can pull the agros off of you when you anger them. /shrug
SantosL
Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:30 pm
#6
HoboBilly wrote:Combat
- Healing actions will now garner hate towards your target's enemies
If we didn't already have enough hatred from the devs, now we will get it in game too!! What's next?
This makes perfect sense to have. If healing didn't generate any aggro, a doc could sit right behind a tank and heal them constantly while not having to worry about being attacked themselves.
HoboBilly
Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:43 pm
#7
SantosL wrote:
This makes perfect sense to have. If healing didn't generate any aggro, a doc could sit right behind a tank and heal them constantly while not having to worry about being attacked themselves.
I'm not sure I fully agree with this. Who do you kill, the guy beating you in the head with a hammer or they guy healing the guy beating you in the head with the hammer? Personally, i'd try to kill the guy with the hammer, but i guess I'm just stupid like that.
SantosL
Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:51 pm
#8
HoboBilly wrote:
SantosL wrote:
This makes perfect sense to have. If healing didn't generate any aggro, a doc could sit right behind a tank and heal them constantly while not having to worry about being attacked themselves.I'm not sure I fully agree with this. Who do you kill, the guy beating you in the head with a hammer or they guy healing the guy beating you in the head with the hammer? Personally, i'd try to kill the guy with the hammer, but i guess I'm just stupid like that.
You're taking what I said rather literally. An AI setup that ignores healers would be way too simple to beat... have one damage dealer and 10 medics healing them, and you would be able to defeat everything with little effort.
Marrow1
Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:16 pm
#9
I will be interesting to see how this plays out.
In live if the creature is non-agreesive you can heal till the cows come home and not get attacked. However, since most high end creatures are agressive you dont see a lot of folks sploiting this issue.
With the new system the person who does the most damage tends to get the agro. There was some talk about making this a bit more random to all the damage dealers so that the most damage dealers does not keep agro all the time.
IMO it makes a bit of since to have the healer be part of the randomness of the agro as part of the new hate system. They are after all helping to kill the creature.
The interesting part to me will be how much healing counts toward being the "damage dealer". My worry would be that if you have a group of 7 tanks and one CM or Doc that the healer will be healing more damage than any of the tanks and thus be the focus of the agro all the time. That would be a rather larger pain.
My hope is that some balance is achieved so thathealers do not wind up as the constant agro.
SantosL
Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:26 pm
#10
I dunno Morrow, I have to disagree with the idea of NOT having healers constantly aggro'd.
A good "hate" system needs a few things. The highest damage dealers and the highest healers should be the main targets for the AI. The role of the tank is to actively regain aggro by using abilities (the taunt abilities, for example). If there isn't a dynamic shift in aggro, combat will remain as stale as it currently is on live with no specific aggro control.
But at the same time, having TOO much hate generated for healing would be a bad thing - someone who is a pikeman could exploit the healing to gain more hate then they should have, and be TOO GOOD a tank.
So sure, there needs to be a fine line of balance. But attempting to have it so healing generates little to no hate makes combat too simple, and too monotone. The damage dealers and healers need to get a feel for how much aggro they are pulling, and at the same time the tanks are to try to hold the aggro and pull mobs off the more vulnerable players.
In a group of 7 tanks and one healer, as you gave as an example, the healer SHOULD be the one concerned about getting stuck with the aggro. Those 7 tanks are responsible for soaking up the damage, there's a reason why some prof's like pikeman/TK are made for tanking vs. the other combat professions.
A good "hate" system needs a few things. The highest damage dealers and the highest healers should be the main targets for the AI. The role of the tank is to actively regain aggro by using abilities (the taunt abilities, for example). If there isn't a dynamic shift in aggro, combat will remain as stale as it currently is on live with no specific aggro control.
But at the same time, having TOO much hate generated for healing would be a bad thing - someone who is a pikeman could exploit the healing to gain more hate then they should have, and be TOO GOOD a tank.
So sure, there needs to be a fine line of balance. But attempting to have it so healing generates little to no hate makes combat too simple, and too monotone. The damage dealers and healers need to get a feel for how much aggro they are pulling, and at the same time the tanks are to try to hold the aggro and pull mobs off the more vulnerable players.
In a group of 7 tanks and one healer, as you gave as an example, the healer SHOULD be the one concerned about getting stuck with the aggro. Those 7 tanks are responsible for soaking up the damage, there's a reason why some prof's like pikeman/TK are made for tanking vs. the other combat professions.
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