Doctor Archive
Thread: CU Information Concerns
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Jalinsol
Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:44 pm
#1
I want to start by saying I’m not mad, quitting, or otherwise displeased with the future Combat Upgrade. I play many different professions (Doctor happens to be one of the current ones) and largely think that there are several portions of combat that are truly “out of whack.” I support change. I don’t really like rants, conspiracy theories (come on—they released the 30K resource rewards to anger docs???? You can’t be serious!) and I’m not here to debate.
I couldn’t find a good forum to post this to. I looked through the Core Systems boards, but there’s nothing (that I found) that seemed appropriate for posts about the CU. I’m hoping this note gets enough traffic or notice that it’ll get responded to by someone with real information.
First and foremost, I’m having great difficulty finding any solid information on the CU to begin with. I’ve gone with what I’ve found in the forums, including Blair’s introductory message, which seems to be the bulk of the information available to the “unwashed masses.” Even the information from starwarsgalaxies.com is non-existent. The main link (the “Combat Upgrade” link on the main left nav) simply goes to a page with three paragraphs composed of four sentences total that say “it’ll be cool, check back later” (paraphrased, of course).
From what I have seen, doctors, entertainers, and image designers are being marginalized the most. I don’t know that the changes won’t be warranted—I for one think that buffs are way too strong—but with the lack of information provided, who’s to know what will happen.
I’d ask SOE to give us some information. I would have thought that this lesson would have been learned, AND SHARED, by other groups with regards to MMORPGs. Players want information, and they want it now—even if it’s bad news. The average person isn’t expecting a blow-by-blow of exactly what is going to be released, but we need more information than what’s been provided, in this case especially for doctors and entertainers, regarding buffs, healing, etc. Lack of communication regarding this suggests to me (for one) that either there was no real vision for change here, or that the change which was expected “blew up” when someone discovered a problem with it.
What’s the expected timeframe for the CU? If we’re talking months, no biggie. Weeks? Days? I totally understand the concern that if you say April, 2005, and it’s actually May 3rd, there’s likely to be a lot of griping. On the other hand, you’re going to see a lot more griping if 3 days beforehand, all the Docs, BEs, Miners and Scouts discover their resources, while not useless, are no longer useful for buffs, etc. I’m not sure if Chefs and Smugglers will have the same concerns or not. They’re hardly mentioned (if at all) in what I’ve seen.
One of the attractive aspects of SWG has been, in the past, the ability for a player to completely avoid combat altogether. From the information coming from different correspondents, the best I can gather is that they expect doctors will become battlefield medics. One commented that they look forward to being in the field healing their group members. Most are simply saying, “Wait and see; you’ll like it.” Forgive me for being rude, or even obnoxious, but SOE sailed that balloon long ago, and if I recall correctly, the results weren’t terribly good. I’m not convinced that I trust SOE to know what I’m going to like or dislike anymore.
Someone “in the know” needs to help sort through all the misinformation, and offer something that can be pointed to, and say “There. That’s what we’re aiming for.” Posts with 15 pages of replies, with SOE replies mixed in simply aren’t good enough.
To summarize, I would hope that someone could provide some extra information:
- What’s the current timeframe of the CU? I think it only fair that players have the opportunity to know when things will change, as it is affecting the trade economies. And since we don’t have more information about what changes to what, this is vital.
- Is Doctor expected to become front line combat support class? Comments from correspondents strongly suggest this—it needs to be refuted or confirmed.
- Are Entertainers going to be for anything other than BF? I don’t recall seeing anything on BF in Blair’s post, but a correspondent did comment that BF will remain. The question about Entertainer Buffs as well as Mind Wounds hasn’t been addressed at all, though.
- Are Smugglers affected at all? Conflicting reports—not a good thing when you’re trying to win over the masses.
- How does SOE see this all playing out “in practice?” We’re told the Devs play the game. As a former game dev, I know that we had to have a plan long before we began implementing it. Surely someone understands how they expect these changes to interact. Even if the plan is “Docs will be along with combat groups to heal the injured during battle (aka Clerics),” that’s better information than what we currently have.
- Are Image Designers going to be primarily used by the whack-os that want to change their in-game look every 3 days (like my 6 year old son* does with his snow-boarding game)?
As for me, I’m withholding judgment at this time. As a TKM, I’m not thrilled with having to add the second brawler tree, but just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean it isn’t good for the game.
Thanks. I’d appreciate bumps if you find yourself with similar questions.
*My 6 year old son is NOT a whack-o. He’s also not old enough to play SWG, so if he wants to change his snow-boarders haircut every 10 minutes, more power to his 6 year old concept of fun.
ASL
Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:59 pm
#2
I can't answer many of those as of yet but I can say that the CU is slated for May 1st. I remember seeing a Dev post about it but i'm not sure where, I'll look around though
toothlessviper
Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:01 pm
#3
well one thing is for sure swg track record is not good for infomation..
to be honest that has cost them more than anything else.
anyone else remember the CH balance.. great info there ( not ).....
first bump bro...
UmmonPrime
Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:02 pm
#4
Ya, I'm a little worried they are going to make MD the same as CH.... what's the point to it?
ASL
Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:08 pm
#5
Despite all the things that have happened in the past, the only thing we can really do now is sit back and hope for the best :/
MyT_Chicken
Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:11 pm
#6
Well if anyone remembers the CH "nerf" they will also remember that those changes were to be used with the CU....
The CU was suppose to have happened that long ago. So I'm not worried at all...
Numbers don't scare me....Balance does, and right now the game is far from balanced. We have Jedi and CH tags as "Already CUed" Combat profession coming next....then I assume the remain crafting profession, and then sadly, but most likely the Entertainers / Social classes.
Everyone is getting stuck on the numbers.. OMG I CAN'T BUFF FOR 3k NEMORE!!!!! NOOO.
Well a 10% - 20% may very well give that added boast most people are looking for. Think outside the box, there is more then just Doctors being changed. There is a lot we still don't know, and there is a lot of information people are leaving out, but the Devs have posted on. The CU is more about the game, not this one profession.
Marrow1
Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:07 pm
#7
There is no way your going to tell me that the CH changes 1.5 yrs ago have anything to do with the current CU. Sorry, but the entire CU as changed so much since then or even since the Jedi changes that they can not in any way be thought of as having already been adjusted.
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Well if anyone remembers the CH "nerf" they will also remember that those changes were to be used with the CU....
The CU was suppose to have happened that long ago. So I'm not worried at all...
Numbers don't scare me....Balance does, and right now the game is far from balanced. We have Jedi and CH tags as "Already CUed" Combat profession coming next....then I assume the remain crafting profession, and then sadly, but most likely the Entertainers / Social classes.
Everyone is getting stuck on the numbers.. OMG I CAN'T BUFF FOR 3k NEMORE!!!!! NOOO.
Well a 10% - 20% may very well give that added boast most people are looking for. Think outside the box, there is more then just Doctors being changed. There is a lot we still don't know, and there is a lot of information people are leaving out, but the Devs have posted on. The CU is more about the game, not this one profession.
MyT_Chicken
Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:34 pm
#8
Marrow1 wrote:
There is no way your going to tell me that the CH changes 1.5 yrs ago have anything to do with the current CU. Sorry, but the entire CU as changed so much since then or even since the Jedi changes that they can not in any way be thought of as having already been adjusted.
Actualy yes there is a way I'm gonna tell you that the CH changes had to do with the past CU. Not the on that is currently in development, but the one that was in the works 1.5 years ago. Do some research on it....But yes the CH changes were apart of "A" CU attempt.
vortexala
Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:40 pm
#9
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Actualy yes there is a way I'm gonna tell you that the CH changes had to do with the past CU. Not the on that is currently in development, but the one that was in the works 1.5 years ago. Do some research on it....But yes the CH changes were apart of "A" CU attempt.
Yes, the CH's were part of one of, if not the, earliest iteration of the CU. However, that doesn't mean that they're balanced or will be balanced as part of this current CU.
Marrow1
Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:58 pm
#10
vortexala wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Actualy yes there is a way I'm gonna tell you that the CH changes had to do with the past CU. Not the on that is currently in development, but the one that was in the works 1.5 years ago. Do some research on it....But yes the CH changes were apart of "A" CU attempt.
Yes, the CH's were part of one of, if not the, earliest iteration of the CU. However, that doesn't mean that they're balanced or will be balanced as part of this current CU.
That is exactly my point. To even reference another CU balance attempt that does not pertain to the current one is miss leading in the least. It is simply not relavent. I specifically stated current CU, btw, I know it was part of a long forgotten past CU.
CH was the second elite prof I mastered after doc. I was a CH at the time of the nerf and lived with it for many months after it. It was very painful to watch a great prof crumble. I suspect it was this experience that makes me so passionate about the doc changes. I don't want to see a wonderful prof go the way CH's did. I do not want them to be as rare as tamed Bloodsucker Mite Queen.
Message Edited by Marrow1 on 03-28-2005 03:59 PM
MyT_Chicken
Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:57 pm
#11
Marrow1 wrote:
vortexala wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Actualy yes there is a way I'm gonna tell you that the CH changes had to do with the past CU. Not the on that is currently in development, but the one that was in the works 1.5 years ago. Do some research on it....But yes the CH changes were apart of "A" CU attempt.
Yes, the CH's were part of one of, if not the, earliest iteration of the CU. However, that doesn't mean that they're balanced or will be balanced as part of this current CU.
That is exactly my point. To even reference another CU balance attempt that does not pertain to the current one is miss leading in the least. It is simply not relavent. I specifically stated current CU, btw, I know it was part of a long forgotten past CU.
CH was the second elite prof I mastered after doc. I was a CH at the time of the nerf and lived with it for many months after it. It was very painful to watch a great prof crumble. I suspect it was this experience that makes me so passionate about the doc changes. I don't want to see a wonderful prof go the way CH's did. I do not want them to be as rare as tamed Bloodsucker Mite Queen.
Message Edited by Marrow1 on 03-28-2005 03:59 PM
Well the key thing is we aren't the only ones being "nerfed" this pass. And your right the CH thing is not very relavent to the CU today. Armor is changing, Weapons are changing, Food is changing, Spice is changing...I mean its all changing. I just don't think its going to be as bad as some people are making it out to be. Sure stuff is changing, and no one likes change, but we will adapt or we will move on to something else. I really don't see the need for Doctors decline just because we aren't getting what we want. I don't see the need for Doctors changing just because we wont be "Crafters".
Infact even right now most people don't look at us as "Crafters", they look at us as Buff Bots andbazillionares. They look at us like all we can do is buff. Which is why I think the current direction is a good one for us because we can do more then buff. I mean the people that are so passonate about crafting need to just wait and see how the skill trees are adjusted. Medics can still craft, so I don't see what the big deal is I guess. I would much rather spend my time playing in a group and healing people then craft and make schematics to tend to factories.
I really don't think that the CU is going to be the downfall of Doctors. I don't think it is going to be even remotely close to what happened the CH's. I mean leaving the crafting part out, the changes sound great to me with what I know.
Darksfallen
Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:52 pm
#12
Considering they have to rebuild all the mobs, that includes all pets and make them correct for this new system, meaning damage, resists and all that, consider the CH nerf version 2 in there tooas people will see it.
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Well the key thing is we aren't the only ones being "nerfed" this pass. And your right the CH thing is not very relavent to the CU today. Armor is changing, Weapons are changing, Food is changing, Spice is changing...I mean its all changing. I just don't think its going to be as bad as some people are making it out to be. Sure stuff is changing, and no one likes change, but we will adapt or we will move on to something else. I really don't see the need for Doctors decline just because we aren't getting what we want. I don't see the need for Doctors changing just because we wont be "Crafters".
Marrow1
Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:03 pm
#13
I dont know, CH could come out of the CU smalling like a rose. It could put them back in a very powerful possition. If all the players abilities are nerfed (HAM, specials, weapon damage, buffs, etc) then a nice pet could be the key for any hunt group just as it was back in the day. Heck, those 10k lvl 10 pets could be the bomb.
Darksfallen wrote:
Considering they have to rebuild all the mobs, that includes all pets and make them correct for this new system, meaning damage, resists and all that, consider the CH nerf version 2 in there tooas people will see it.
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Well the key thing is we aren't the only ones being "nerfed" this pass. And your right the CH thing is not very relavent to the CU today. Armor is changing, Weapons are changing, Food is changing, Spice is changing...I mean its all changing. I just don't think its going to be as bad as some people are making it out to be. Sure stuff is changing, and no one likes change, but we will adapt or we will move on to something else. I really don't see the need for Doctors decline just because we aren't getting what we want. I don't see the need for Doctors changing just because we wont be "Crafters".
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