Doctor Archive

Thread: Devs comments and answers from the fanfest

Shadow73
Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:18 am
#1

with interest I read the developers comments and answers from the fan fest. I found this particulary interesting:


We "WANT" the Docs in a group, playing with people, and buffing the players there rather then at the starport or whatever.


I don't understand why they want to force people into a special style of play. Isnt this a Role Playing Game? Where you have a certain amount of freedom regarding your playing style? So many of the other games has more or less a forced play style SWG used to be different. You had the option. You could really LIVE THE SAGA... Unfortunately that freedom is more and more limited.


I am not a doctor. I am a crafter myself. But I know many doctors, and many of them are like myself. We dont like to fight. The reason why I enjoy this game is because you dont have to fight. You can be a crafter and sit in your house and craft items and sell it to others. And those who enjyed healing and fighting became COMBAT MEDICS...


I know many docs that enjoyed sitting in the Hospital and the cantina. They found it very social. Some of them has left the game now, feeling that what they loved about this game, and what had been their style of playing for nearly 2 years were ruined by developers that wanted to tell then 'hey this is how you are going to play this game so get out and hunt!'


Another aspect. I as a pilot, came from many spacefights badly wounded. I always went to a PC hospital or cantina and found docs?.. Isnt it the most natural thing in the world? to find docs in a hospital? Now I cant find them... Aaargh.. Hate the fact that it is more likely to be healed by a Jedi then by a doc....


... btw regardnig buffing. Okay... buffbots and stuff. but it was a machinery. It was a important part of the economy. So many Fighters and hunters made their credits hunting for medical crafters... So many players made money on selling other resources to medical crafting.


This game was so much richer before when it came to freedom and the ability for each player to play the game in their prefered play style. It was a GEM!..


Unfortunately whats happening to MMORPG games is what happened to Hollywood movies.. make a template that works for everyone and follow that receiption.. all the games now are nearly the same. Does not matter if your weapon is a light saber, a sword or a t-21.. they are all the same... Out and fight and grind your xp dude!


*sigh*


Bottom line.


Making doctors.. combat medics and forcing them to group and fight is in my opinion a major mistake and a short minded way of thinking. It reduces freedom a lot.. and it is a part of making one playstyle that fits many players but not all. In my opinion this is poor game design.


Shadow






BadgerSmaker
Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:15 am
#2


Sounds to me like a template of Master Doc, Bio Engineer 0/0/0/4 would suit you. Then you can craft and heal people.


Is your main gripe that you can no longer get medical XP out of combat? If so, why? Were you grinding medical xp for force sensitive skills?


If not, you are not being forced to do anything you dont want to.


Or do you miss being a buff dispenser and making easy money sitting around starports?


We "WANT" the Docs in a group, playing with people, and buffing the players there rather then at the starport or whatever.


I whole heartedly agree with this idea. Doctors and Combat Medics are now an important part of any combat group. There are no more buffbots, no more doctor alts to provide buffs to main chars, if you want buffs you have to bring a doc with you.


It's a much better system than having a 3 hour window in which to get things done and having to return to a doc before your buffs run out.


Maybe I'm not reading your post right, but I cant see what it is that you are missing.



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"BAD NPC SPAWNER IS HERE!, NO ENTRY IN NPC SPAWNERS DATATABLE"
Yun-Yammka
Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:14 am
#3

Badger,


Unfortunately, what the Developers have decreed is simple... We no longer have the OPTION to play in groups... Now we are MANDATED to play in groups...


"You VILL play een thees vay... undt you VILL like it!"


*shudders at the concept of living in a dictatorship*


I hate to be told what to do with my lives... both virtual and real. I permit none to "dictate" how I behave and act (well.. within the boundaries of RL Laws)


Specialists in a field should be "seduced" intoworking with others... not forced into it.


Y'all have a nice day, now. Y'heah?


/bow




===========================
This account "get's the axe" on 09JUN05 :-(
Next on the "chopping block" is a "main Alt"... cancellation to be initiated (pending developments at SOE) in JUN05 :-(
I thank the Force that I had the foresight to buy my subscriptions to SWG on a monthly basis.

"Exercising my vote with my wallet (third account)... elsewhere"
Snooze821
Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:31 am
#4


The Doc's ability to solo is among the highest of any class in the game. Also you still get med xp healing yourself in combat just YOU NEED TO BE IN COMBAT. You only need to heal yourself with bacta jab twice to get the max med xp per kill so I don't see why your complaining. We are get weapon xp numbers not combat xp numbers when you gettting 3-4k xp a pop it's not that terribly long to level a doc.


Also getting no xp for wounds further promotes people actually tipping for our services out of a group. I think what most people see as the problem is they removed med centers from the game through the new mechanics so finding a place where doctors are centeralized it more difficult. Also the med bonus from droids has disappeared also.


The only thing that really is rough about grouping is the lack understanding of our unique "hate" setup and how a group that doesn't listen can kill a doc off fast.





Iw-Ip MD - Doaba, Eclipse

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Please hold and you'll be ignored in the order which you were received.
Dapu
Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:08 am
#5


Badger, you seem to be someone that obviously enjoys hunting and would prefer to be out there doing that instead of just sitting in a hospital healing people. Understandable. You should be able to do that, and it is very nice that the changes we have seen have made this better than before.


However, the big issue is that not everyone wants to hunt. There are many different focuses of people playing MMOGs, but they can very simply be split between hunting/pvp/fighting and social/rp aspects. The problem so many have with these changes the CU brought is that it pushed the focus onto the hunting/pvp/fighting side of the game and took away from the social/rp aspect.


The simplest way to put it is, would you enjoy the changes if they made it so that doctors, combat medics, and medicscould only gain xp in medical centers? This is the exact opposite done to many of us that picked up doctor for the social/rp aspect of the profession. Maybe you still have the ability to heal others while out in combat, but you won't receive any xp for it. To advance in any way shape or form in the profession, you are forced to play in a specific way. The answer to you shouldn't be "Well, if you don't like healing in medical centers you should just change your profession." The answer is to find a common ground so that both playstyles are taken into account.


The bottom line is, we can't do what you keep telling us to do. If someone does not want to hunt, they cannot gain any medical xp. Period. How is someone to get even novice doc without doing so? It is purely impossible. (Okay, so maybe those who could respec could, but that is only a temporary solution. We need to think long-term, not just for today. What of any new players that might want to play SWG as a doctor but don't want to hunt? Should we just tell them to find another game?) So sure, they can take up BE, or some other non-combat profession. Can they heal at all, though? No. Not unless they earn the xp in combat. They need to do that to work their way up through medic, and then get the xp necessary for novice doc.So we cannot do what we want, when it would not just be so simple to implement, buthas been available in the past.


That is what the real problem is. They took away a part of a playstyle, and there is no real substitution for it.




SWDr. Dapu HustaeWS
;capo di tutti capi:
CThe Commission U[Comm]B
A Corleone, Naboo @


BadgerSmaker
Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:32 am
#6

Ahh, I see what you're saying... some players dont want to go into combat at all but want to be Doctors.


Fair point, after all you can be a doctor in real life and never have ever thrown a punch.


Good analogy on the "no xp for combat, xp only in med centres" too... I could imagine my frustration at having to sit in a med centre to gain xp when all my friends are out killing stuff, I suppose the opposite is true for non combat docs, they want to sit in med centres with their friends but they are being forced into combat instead.


The problem is that the Doctors role has been defined as a combat one and no allowances have been made for players that wish to play non combat doctors.


Thanks for taking the time to explain this for me, I'm afraid that my game experience revolves around killing things, and when I talk to friends in game its usually about what to kill next and better ways to kill things.




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"BAD NPC SPAWNER IS HERE!, NO ENTRY IN NPC SPAWNERS DATATABLE"
FFNogoodnik
Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:41 am
#7

Badger,


I am glad Dapu was able to explain it to you. I had typed a long diatribe about it, not at as good as Dapu's and lost internet connection sometime before I subitted so it never went through. /cheer Dapu. I tendto think of it this way, If i wanted to heal but not do combat I would be a doctor, if I wanted to heal AND do combat I could be a combat medic. After all, combat medic is the only proffession in SWG with COMBAT in the name


Dr. Frostbite Nogoodnik




Dr. Frostbite Nogoodnik
Even though in the NGE I am a medic I did not spend
6 years in Evil Medical School to be called Mister,
Thank you very much.
BadgerSmaker
Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:05 am
#8

Yup, I get it now... but have no idea what could be done...


Not that it's any of my business, I always feel that I'm stepping on other correspondants toes when I post in the other professions forums now even though I always have before I had a blue name.


So, XP for wound healing is out, it's too open to exploitation.


How about non combat missions to gain medical xp out of combat? Similar to entertainer missions of "Go to this cantina and play for x amount of people"...


Mission terminals could give out "medical" missions as well as destroy and delivery, you could have NPC's that come into the med centre with different ailments like "Theme Hospital".


I don't know... but someone should come up with some ideas.





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"BAD NPC SPAWNER IS HERE!, NO ENTRY IN NPC SPAWNERS DATATABLE"
Dapu
Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:07 am
#9


Yes, that's exactly it. Glad I helped clear that up some.


Other than I just finished mastering doc last night (and pistols, too - so similar template ), the changes are more of an annoyance to me than a huge hinderance as with many people. I do, after all, hunt somewhat. I really liked how it was set up prior to the CU, as I took pistols for the combat and hunting, and doc for the social aspect. I still can have both, but getting them finished now requires combat for both, so there's only one way to advance now. My rants tend to be more for my fellow RPers that would like to see the doctors have a social aspect back while training, and not just something you do when you have some free time. After all, to me it just seems to make sense that doctors get experience while working in a medical center/hospital.




SWDr. Dapu HustaeWS
;capo di tutti capi:
CThe Commission U[Comm]B
A Corleone, Naboo @


Dapu
Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:11 am
#10







BadgerSmaker wrote:

Yup, I get it now... but have no idea what could be done...


Not that it's any of my business, I always feel that I'm stepping on other correspondants toes when I post in the other professions forums now even though I always have before I had a blue name.


So, XP for wound healing is out, it's too open to exploitation.


How about non combat missions to gain medical xp out of combat? Similar to entertainer missions of "Go to this cantina and play for x amount of people"...


Mission terminals could give out "medical" missions as well as destroy and delivery, you could have NPC's that come into the med centre with different ailments like "Theme Hospital".


I don't know... but someone should come up with some ideas.








Actually, that is a very good idea!


I would love to see them find a way to allow xp for wound healing, but to fix it to stop the exploitation. But if not that at least something to give medical xp outside of combat. There should be something they can come up with that people can't exploit, yet keep the professions open for different playstyles.




SWDr. Dapu HustaeWS
;capo di tutti capi:
CThe Commission U[Comm]B
A Corleone, Naboo @


Chesed-Ari
Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:37 am
#11

I have been a doctor since just after launch 2003 and I have picked up combat medic a couple months after that. I have spent time in the medical centers, in the starport buffing and in combat healing others. I prefer the combat role of the doctor, the support role, being in the groups healing and rez'ing anyone that needs it.

The one complaint I have about being in post CU hunting groups, healing, whether I am grouped or not with them, is that when I heal someone, every mob that is currently being attacked starts agro'ing me. In seconds I am incapped, even when I am healing myself with every bacta choice I have and stims. Taunt doesn't work to keep the mobs off me and the mobs don't die quick enough so I usually get incapped 3 times by them and have to clone.

This game is a role playing game. My role as a doctor/combat medic is one of support, not direct combat. It seems a very poor gaming implementation to constantly have mobs tearing up your support people and ignoring your combat people. How is the game improved by this mechanic? I end up dying more than anyone else in the group. Why does every mob have to agro the doctor? Is that really necessary? If red agro mobs attack, that is one thing and that makes sense but when normal non-agro mobs attack just because I healed someone, that really shouldn't happen. A combat role for doctor/combat medic is now impossible without constant visits to the cloner, interrupting the groups hunting repeatedly. This is a very poorly thought out idea that needs to be scrapped immediately so I can go back to playing my role as a support person for our hunting groups.

Chesed-Ari
Noble Legends Guild
Valley of Legends, Naboo
Lowca Server
The_Real_Che
Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:44 am
#12






Dapu wrote:


Yes, that's exactly it. Glad I helped clear that up some.


Other than I just finished mastering doc last night (and pistols, too - so similar template ), the changes are more of an annoyance to me than a huge hinderance as with many people. I do, after all, hunt somewhat. I really liked how it was set up prior to the CU, as I took pistols for the combat and hunting, and doc for the social aspect. I still can have both, but getting them finished now requires combat for both, so there's only one way to advance now. My rants tend to be more for my fellow RPers that would like to see the doctors have a social aspect back while training, and not just something you do when you have some free time. After all, to me it just seems to make sense that doctors get experience while working in a medical center/hospital.





Thats the one part im missing the most. When I first started the game the med center was the place to be if you were a medic/doc. Plenty of wounds to heal, and social interaction, crafted my meds when i was running low, and when I wanted to leave it I could go out and hunt or run missions. Of course we all know how the afk tumbling and uber buffs killed all that.


I dont know too much about how those entertainer missions work (like the ones Badger mentioned), so IM not sure if that will remedy the situation. I think we do need the med centers to be the place for doctors and medics once again, give us an XP boost for being there, and give us xp for healing wounds. As far as exploiting afk healing...(posted this in another thread) Im not sure if its still ingame but about a month before the CU they put something ingame where you couldnt attack while AFK (to prevent the afk loot camping). Why dont they introduce something similar where we cant heal while afk?







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DrendalKahn
Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:10 am
#13






BadgerSmaker wrote:

Yup, I get it now... but have no idea what could be done...


Not that it's any of my business, I always feel that I'm stepping on other correspondants toes when I post in the other professions forums now even though I always have before I had a blue name.


So, XP for wound healing is out, it's too open to exploitation.


How about non combat missions to gain medical xp out of combat? Similar to entertainer missions of "Go to this cantina and play for x amount of people"...


Mission terminals could give out "medical" missions as well as destroy and delivery, you could have NPC's that come into the med centre with different ailments like "Theme Hospital".


I don't know... but someone should come up with some ideas.








Someone start writing a proposal for this to the devs, lol.



DRENDAL KAHN


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