Doctor Archive
Thread: #1 Important PvP prof: Doctor. But Doctor not designed for Combat Support
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black666label
Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:13 am
#1
Yes itw ill help you out in PvP a lot...unless your mind goes to crap before you can heal the poison >.<
Vermicious_Knid
Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:14 am
#2
I don't mean this as a flame but that's the whole point of the skill-based system in SWG. You can tweak your template to have the skills you want, within the limits of the skill point system.
I think it's a big improvement over other games with set roles for combat professions, healers, etc. Everyone can be a mix of things and concentrate on what they like best.
I just posted a thread on Corbantis asking what people liked most and least about Everquest, and almost all of them said they liked the forced grouping and the rigid classes least. However, we get a lot of people here wishing for both of those things. I guess it's kind of a "grass is always greener" thing.
I don't think theres' such a thing as a "real" doctor, or entertainer, or whatever. This game is designed so you can have a mix of skills.
Radar-X
Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:38 am
#3
Ypiana wrote:
In PvP a good squad has at least 50% doctors. 60% is ideal. This is due to the rampant use of mind poison. This is primarily due to the urgent need to keep players clear of mind poison and mind disease. Doctors bring obvious other benefits, but the bottom line is a good PvP squad is based on good docs.
The odd thing here is that when you look at the differences between Doctors and CMs, doctors are much more like entertainers than combatants. It's obvious that SOE wanted entertainers to hang out in the cantinas, and doctors to hang out in the med centers. This is fine for PvE, but for PvP a team must have doctors before they can think about seriously PvP'ing. Yet, docs have no terrain negotiation or area cures or affects.
While hardcore PvP'ers are able to adapt by using more docs, the imbalance limits the accesibility of the GCW to average or novice players. The game is so flexible that PvP realities manifest differently than originally intended, and the developers have to adjust things accordingly. The doctor profession and its role in combat needs to be looked at for improvement.
So when are you going to have your dissertation on PvP finished? I saw your views on our local forum but I really hope your going to use examples outside your guild as well. We have been asking for Doctors to be looked at for....I dunno whose been here since launch? Doc has no combat role. It is a secondary class used to augment a team of combat classes. Terrain Negotiation is fine. Thats a scout skill and if Docs want they in a group they need to get a SL involved. Thats what SL was designed for. Area cures...I could go along with that.
OckVofad
Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:48 am
#4
I would expect alot of things to change with the combat revamp.
The most complaints I see related to PvP are about combat medics. I see them about to be hit hard with the nerf bat. Say good-bye to poison and disease as an effective PvP tactic.
Other professions that may be hit hard: Rifleman, Fencer, Swordsman, Armorsmith, Weaponsmith, Brawler, TKA
Profs that may stay basically the same: Doctor, Commando, All other Crafters, All Entertainers,
Profs that may benefit: Pistoleer, Carbineer, BH, Jedi, Pikeman
I suspect that the "combat balance" is going to be a stealth way to make the game more "EQish" and encourage (force) grouping for PvE. But the removal of the combat medic as a chemical weapons platform would change PvP massively.
Just my feelings from reading Dev and peoples posts.
Ssobe
Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:14 am
#5
Yup. If you want to be in the field, you're going to have to add other professions. That's why they are there. My doc character is purely a support character. If you want to be the best in the PvP support arena, you're going to have to go Doctor/Combat Medic. I spend a lot more time healing and curing that I do tossing disease or poison, although I will do both. Terrain negotiation comes with the Medic Support tree and you end up with a +50 Terrain Negotiation at Master Combat Medic. Most of the time, I don't even carry a weapon. I don't need to be drawing fire from anyone.
These guys are right. Docs are meant to be stationary. That's why there are MASH units in the real world. Medics are in the field. If you want the best of both worlds, you're going to have to mix professions.
Erithil
Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:26 am
#6
There is a deliberate action by the game developers to create situations like this. It is most definately intentional. Classes are supposed to be balanced...not all slight variations on each other. The doctor is supposed to be the pinnacle of wound healing, not a counter class of the combat medic. Look at all of the classes, there are plenty who have an indirect impact on PvP but who are not, by themselves, meant to fight. Entertainers who buff and heal mind, armorsmiths who make armor, weaponsmiths who make the weapons, and even slicers who eek out a little better capability out of equipment are all classes with no real combat ability (except of course the smuggler does have some special attacks). I think it's ill-advised to give doctors combat ability. What they can do in combat is plenty...poison (and to a lesser extent disease) heals, flame extinguishing, damage heals, and resuscitating fallen players.
There are plenty of skill points left to master a combat profession. For the longest time the biggest pain in the butt we had in Dearic was a PvP Master Doctor/Master Pistolier. Now days you see Master Doctor/Master Rifleman or Master Doctor/Master Fencer or Master Doctor/TKM. They are plenty effective in combat.
Ssobe
Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:54 am
#7
If you haven't tried it, just join a group on a big PvE hunt. They'll love you. You can turn a so-so group into a killer group in no time. The same, of course, goes for PvP. If you have docs there thgat are not concentrating on killing things, you have a huge advantage. To win, you have to have dedicated docs and CM's.
HuntinHeads
Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:56 am
#8
Erithil wrote:
There is a deliberate action by the game developers to create situations like this. It is most definately intentional. Classes are supposed to be balanced...not all slight variations on each other. The doctor is supposed to be the pinnacle of wound healing, not a counter class of the combat medic. Look at all of the classes, there are plenty who have an indirect impact on PvP but who are not, by themselves, meant to fight. Entertainers who buff and heal mind, armorsmiths who make armor, weaponsmiths who make the weapons, and even slicers who eek out a little better capability out of equipment are all classes with no real combat ability (except of course the smuggler does have some special attacks). I think it's ill-advised to give doctors combat ability. What they can do in combat is plenty...poison (and to a lesser extent disease) heals, flame extinguishing, damage heals, and resuscitating fallen players.
There are plenty of skill points left to master a combat profession. For the longest time the biggest pain in the butt we had in Dearic was a PvP Master Doctor/Master Pistolier. Now days you see Master Doctor/Master Rifleman or Master Doctor/Master Fencer or Master Doctor/TKM. They are plenty effective in combat.
I agree. I am a MD/TKM and I am deadly at PvP. Mostly due to TKM though. My doc skills get me buffed and ready to go b4 the battle, but while I'm fighting, the only thing I heal is the occasional dizzy. I could pop some havla and heal back to full buffs but, oops, too many rifleman, there goes my mind, and now I'm spamming FOW. I find doctor usefull while not fighting. But you can't give a doctor combat skills. Then he'd be a combat doctor. Who ever heard of that? Combat medics get area stuff and terrain neg, they can get to the people in the fight quick, Docs get the uber healing powers..... but people have to come to him. This can't change, that is just the way it works.
Ypiana
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:16 pm
#9
In PvP a good squad has at least 50% doctors. 60% is ideal. This is due to the rampant use of mind poison. This is primarily due to the urgent need to keep players clear of mind poison and mind disease. Doctors bring obvious other benefits, but the bottom line is a good PvP squad is based on good docs.
The odd thing here is that when you look at the differences between Doctors and CMs, doctors are much more like entertainers than combatants. It's obvious that SOE wanted entertainers to hang out in the cantinas, and doctors to hang out in the med centers. This is fine for PvE, but for PvP a team must have doctors before they can think about seriously PvP'ing. Yet, docs have no terrain negotiation or area cures or affects.
While hardcore PvP'ers are able to adapt by using more docs, the imbalance limits the accesibility of the GCW to average or novice players. The game is so flexible that PvP realities manifest differently than originally intended, and the developers have to adjust things accordingly. The doctor profession and its role in combat needs to be looked at for improvement.
MrChow_Sai
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:21 pm
#10
hehe... I'm a Doc 3440 and i'm one really good pvper. The best in duels. It's hard but if u know what ur doing with doc it's a great for pvp
Dejik
Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:35 am
#11
I totally agree that doc is necessary in pvp. 2 friends and I went down to the dark trooper base on naboo because we were bored and all needed some xp (none of us masters of our current combat profs). Well when we get there we decide to clone, but have to run through a jillion mines to get to the cloning center (city right next to the POI) and were all banned before we could clone. We get to the POI and tell the two people there to expect company. One left from the incoming threat, the other stayed (and I gotta say he was almost useless for combat, even with a geo pistol). After waiting for a minute one guy shows up...then another 3...then another one. So we now have 4 of us non-masters against 5 people (three with master tags up). I go kill 2 dark troopers for my group TEF and the battle begins. They have a commando in the group spraying fire constantly, so I was using med blankets like nothing else. My stim e's also got a good 40 uses as well. Long story short, we mopped the floor with them until the last guy ran in and collected about 40 dark troopers to help him, then it was game over for us 
.
.But definately, doc makes a good squad...without one you're screwed.
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