Doctor Archive
Thread: Breaking Down Costs
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ZeroK0ol
Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:54 pm
#1
Here is a comparitive cost scale
With Nutrients
1 crate of brandy 250k
250k/25 volume=10k per set
10k/18 uses per set =555.55 per use of brandy
1 crate of brandy 250k
250k/25 volume=10k per set
10k/18 uses per set =555.55 per use of brandy
1 brandy 555crs to buff 3 Stats
Resources per set of brandy =555units
555 units/18uses=30.83
Resources per brandy 30.83
555 credits per use/30.83 resources per brandy
1 Brandy use = 18 cpu for total resources used in final buying
555 units/18uses=30.83
Resources per brandy 30.83
555 credits per use/30.83 resources per brandy
1 Brandy use = 18 cpu for total resources used in final buying
Without Nutrients
1 crate of brandy 250k
250k/25 volume=10k per set
10k/18 uses per set =555.55 per use of brandy
1 crate of brandy 250k
250k/25 volume=10k per set
10k/18 uses per set =555.55 per use of brandy
1 brandy 555crs to buff 3 Stats
Resources per set of brandy =260units
260 unit of resources/18uses=14.44
Resources per brandy 14.44
555 credits per use/14.44 resources per brandy=38.43
1 Brandy use = 38.43 cpu for total resources used in final buying
260 unit of resources/18uses=14.44
Resources per brandy 14.44
555 credits per use/14.44 resources per brandy=38.43
1 Brandy use = 38.43 cpu for total resources used in final buying
10k per set of 6 buffs
Total Resources for a full SET of buffs
756/6=average resources used =126
Average 19 uses per buff pack
126/19=6.63
6.63x6=total resources used in buffing 1 person (39.78)
39.78 resources approximately per set of buffs.
10k/39.78=251
251cpu to buff 6 stats with Dr Buffs
38.4cpu/18cpu to buff 3 Stats with Brandy
38.4cpu/18cpu to buff 3 Stats with Brandy
Now, if you are Experiamenting up for Charges instead of Power
10k per set of 6 buffs
Total Resources for a full SET of buffs
756/6=average resources used =126
Average 27 uses per buff pack
126/27=4.66
4.66x6=total resources used in buffing 1 person (28)
28 resources approximately per set of buffs.
10k/28=357 to the end user if u are going for charges vs power. I go for power however, usually with janta blood
Total Resources for a full SET of buffs
756/6=average resources used =126
Average 27 uses per buff pack
126/27=4.66
4.66x6=total resources used in buffing 1 person (28)
28 resources approximately per set of buffs.
10k/28=357 to the end user if u are going for charges vs power. I go for power however, usually with janta blood
Message Edited by ZeroK0ol on 08-06-2004 12:59 PM
Nema0879
Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:15 pm
#2
you're experimenting wrong.
Experiment on charges and yr buffs will have a minimum of 27 uses, with +2 mine are 32 uses .... which completely changes all the math in that scenario
(which i don't have the desire to do)
ZeroK0ol
Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:20 pm
#3
i used average if im going for power. which i personally do. u want me to do with other charges? ill see about that.
ZeroK0ol
Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:23 pm
#4
10k per set of 6 buffs
Total Resources for a full SET of buffs
756/6=average resources used =126
Average 27 uses per buff pack
126/27=4.66
4.66x6=total resources used in buffing 1 person (28)
28 resources approximately per set of buffs.
10k/28=357 to the end user if u are going for charges vs power. I go for power however, usually with janta blood
Total Resources for a full SET of buffs
756/6=average resources used =126
Average 27 uses per buff pack
126/27=4.66
4.66x6=total resources used in buffing 1 person (28)
28 resources approximately per set of buffs.
10k/28=357 to the end user if u are going for charges vs power. I go for power however, usually with janta blood
and remember, ur supposed to make approximately 5x what u pay for something to make a relative return in an actual business scale. In photography, you pay 5 cents for a sheet of 8x10 paper, 50 cents for the chemicals, 3 bucks for the man printing it *on average of what he prints out* and thats 3.55 to the creator of the image, why do they charge 60-70 bucks for the 'proffessional' print? *grin*
Message Edited by ZeroK0ol on 08-05-2004 02:28 PM
Nema0879
Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:27 pm
#5
anyone who buffs the public with janta blood for 10k is just well ....
I'll let you finish that sentance.
ZeroK0ol
Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:29 pm
#6
I dont buff the PUBLIC, i dont buff for profit. this is just statistics im listing. I only really buff guildies and friends, they get them free.
Morganite
Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:06 pm
#7
Ok, a few misconceptions to clear up. To make a cask, takes 2 identicial trim, which takes a factory run. Even assuming you only run 2 off, the cost is approximately 30 resources for the trim. Now you combine that with 75 crystalline gemstone to make just the cask. I am wondering where you get the 75 resources/unit of brandy when it takes more then that just to make a single cask? I worked it out once, it takes on the order of 8300 units ofresources to make 1 crate of BE'd brandy..
Lets do some math here
(I go with the formula that the crafter mines their own resources you can plaink a harvester on, and purchases the meats, and I will round to make things easier to understand for subcomponents)
110 units of avian could run you 35k.
110 units of reactive gas runs you 110 credits.
22 units of flora 22 credits
22 units of inorganic... 22 credits
Say the 200 units of herb meat cost you 6000 credits.
200 class 4: 200 credits
100 dant berries: 100 credits
100 talus water: 100 credits
200 lok wild wheat: 200 credits
200 tat fiberplast 200 credits
1 stack of bivoli to buff these off, 5k.
We are at a total of roughly 47k cost for 1 pack of each buff set. You have a profit potential of 250k (assuming you get 30 charges/buff kit, not unreasonable)
for 1 stack of brandy:
100 units to make the cask: 100 credits
20 fruits: 20 credits
20 berries: 20 credits
20 units cereal for alcohol: 20 credits
15 units of meat: 750 credits
60 units flora: 60 credits:
15 units water: 15 credits.
For1000 credits, you have something you can sell for 7k.
Looks that the profit potential is only slightly higher for a chef then a doc (7x compared to 5x) The flaw in my formula is that I dont take into account the costs of getting the BE addatives. (I assumed the doc gets artisan just like the chef gets some tailor, to keep costs down.) To those who dont know, non be'd chef's products just flat out dont sell, and the BE's know that and charge accordingly. Simply thru not being a MBE, or having a BE you are friendly with tohat would make you schmetics the chef's profit can easily dip down to below a doctors level
The problem is greedy chef's, and dumb customers who are willing to overpay because credits are fairly easy to come by in the game..
Ledao
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:10 pm
#8
Morganite wrote:
[...]
Looks that the profit potential is only slightly higher for a chef then a doc (7x compared to 5x) The flaw in my formula is that I dont take into account the costs of getting the BE addatives. (I assumed the doc gets artisan just like the chef gets some tailor, to keep costs down.) To those who dont know, non be'd chef's products just flat out dont sell, and the BE's know that and charge accordingly. Simply thru not being a MBE, or having a BE you are friendly with tohat would make you schmetics the chef's profit can easily dip down to below a doctors level
The problem is greedy chef's, and dumb customers who are willing to overpay because credits are fairly easy to come by in the game..
Nice post. Your analysis is good, i think, so far as it goes, and its cool to see some numbers for a chef product.
However, you're comparing a chef who sells crates of things on a vendor to a doctor who sells in-person buffs; each person here operates on a different level of the economic system, so the comparison is flawed in that respect. I think it would be more appropriate to compare a doctor selling buff packs -- which he must do at a level that is the vicinity of half that of the buffing doctor.
Further, you are comparing(as far as I know, at least -- correct me if I'm wrong)one of the Chef's lower-profit items (or maybe mid-range, but certainly not alone in magnitude) withwhat is the Doc's *only* high-profit item, in most cases. A crate of brandy is certainly expensive to make, but how about a crate of Havla? Or Bivoli?
Now, on my server at least, Doc resource prices are generally much higher than Chef resource prices (and I mean extracted resources primarily here -- the difference in harvesting rate between doc and chef meats more or less accounts for the price difference there.).
So, for a Chef, 8300 units for a crate (of 25, right?) works out to 332 units per item. At 7k, 21 cpu.
For a doc, 248 units of resources make 1 enhance D. The packs I sell the most of -- over 700 sets of these or thereabouts -- are 16k per. 64.5 cpu. That's quite a bit higher, but of course the avian meat right now is 210 cpu in shift. Even assuming 150 cpu avian, that's 4200c right there... So, deduct the avian, and you have 220 units for 11.8k, 53.6 cpu.
Of course, you can't really get away with just making enhances when you're a doc. It would be a shame, but other stuff is often much more fun to make. 
So you make some stim Es, say. 192 units for one of those. Sold for 4600, 24 cpu...
Anyway, its hard to quantify the difference in resource prices. They certainly have an effect though -- anyone who's producing on any sort of decent scale (and here I'm speaking of docs, dunno about chefs) has to buy resources at least from time to time. I know there's quite a few people making a solid living off of my needs...
But it isn't the chefs we should be worried about, one way or the other. It's the evil armorsmiths!
Morganite
Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:25 pm
#9
Ledao wrote:
Morganite wrote:
[...]
..
Nice post. Your analysis is good, i think, so far as it goes, and its cool to see some numbers for a chef product.
However, you're comparing a chef who sells crates of things on a vendor to a doctor who sells in-person buffs; each person here operates on a different level of the economic system, so the comparison is flawed in that respect. I think it would be more appropriate to compare a doctor selling buff packs -- which he must do at a level that is the vicinity of half that of the buffing doctor. It's impractical to compare a doc sitting and buffing to a chef selling on a vendor. Anyone can use a chef's product, doc's products are gated by medicine use.
Further, you are comparing(as far as I know, at least -- correct me if I'm wrong)one of the Chef's lower-profit items (or maybe mid-range, but certainly not alone in magnitude) withwhat is the Doc's *only* high-profit item, in most cases. A crate of brandy is certainly expensive to make, but how about a crate of Havla? Or Bivoli? The 3 most expensive things for a chef to make are Vercupti, Bivoli and anything with milk (smugglers delight, blue milk, etc) If of course you dont count the added costs of meats for nutrients. Brandy is one of the chef's biggest profit products out there. Anything over +400 and over 40 minutes duration at 50 filling will sell in reguards to brandy. A chef can make up for lower-grade nutrients with higher quality meat, and vice versia of course. Havla is cheaper, but is alst practically useless now. Bivoli requires carnivore meat in the final combine, and you really need >800 oq/pe to hit +25 or some smokin nutrients. (+116 or above with lower quality carn meat) Vercupti requires insect meat in the final combine that has to have an oq >700 and dr>750 to hit 50 filling. (along with tubers/lube oil that fits the same stat criteria.) The biggest profit is probably brandy and synthsteak/air cake.) Profit is also another thing that depends how much the chef can/wants to charge. I keep my crates of everything that doesnt involve needing milk to 125k/crate or less. Could I get 250k for my brandy? sure. I keep my prices down to ensure buisness without the need to advertise on trade forums, and lets face it. Making 5mill profit a week for probably 5 hours of real life time is plenty. Hell, I wish I could find a job that pays that well in real life.
Now, on my server at least, Doc resource prices are generally much higher than Chef resource prices (and I mean extracted resources primarily here -- the difference in harvesting rate between doc and chef meats more or less accounts for the price difference there.). Heh, there are fruits/berries that generally are only good for chef's that sell for 50+ cpu on my server.
So, for a Chef, 8300 units for a crate (of 25, right?) Correctworks out to 332 units per item. At 7k, 21 cpu.
For a doc, 248 units of resources make 1 enhance D. The packs I sell the most of -- over 700 sets of these or thereabouts -- are 16k per. 64.5 cpu. That's quite a bit higher, but of course the avian meat right now is 210 cpu in shift. Even assuming 150 cpu avian, that's 4200c right there... So, deduct the avian, and you have 220 units for 11.8k, 53.6 cpu.
Of course, you can't really get away with just making enhances when you're a doc. It would be a shame, but other stuff is often much more fun to make.
So you make some stim Es, say. 192 units for one of those. Sold for 4600, 24 cpu...
Anyway, its hard to quantify the difference in resource prices. They certainly have an effect though -- anyone who's producing on any sort of decent scale (and here I'm speaking of docs, dunno about chefs) has to buy resources at least from time to time. I know there's quite a few people making a solid living off of my needs... Same here, but I keep my prices down by buying large (500k+) quantities of a resource that someone mines for me from a single supplier or 2.
But it isn't the chefs we should be worried about, one way or the other. It's the evil armorsmiths! Funny story, back when I was heavily into PvP, I played a md/mcm character, with a chef alt. The only thing I purchased for personal use and not buisness use was my armor. I would go on the raid, and get demands to buff people, rez people, heal people, etc. I got an attitude and stopped pvp'ing due to the thoughtlessness of the general public. It cost me between 130-200k/raid in costs of diseases, poisons, buff's, rez packs, cure state packs, stims, wound packs, etc. It amazed me how people had the balls to show up in armor they bought, using weapons they bought, taking food they bought(all of which except for under very special circumstances would still be around post-fight), and have the guts to stand and demand I buff them for free, rez them, etc. The free part never bugged me as much as the demand part...
The thing with a chef is, the costs are actually much higher as you go thru a ton more resources in a week say as a crafting fewl of a doc. My chef can use with ease 400k of resources a week, 1/2 of which are grind quality, the other half I either have to mine myself, or pay as high as doc's resources. A crate of each enhance pack, while costly to produce, lasts longer then the chef's products I can make in the same time-frame in 10 factories.
Message Edited by Morganite on 08-05-2004 11:36 PM
ZeroK0ol
Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:07 am
#10
ok, to clear things up, THIS WAS KNOCKED DOWN TO ONE USE OF EACH. what it takes to buff. not for a full cask of 18 uses. point 1. this goes to the final cost to the customer buying a crate and using 1 hit of brandy vs a customer going to a dr and getting 1 hit of each buff pack. that was the only cost i was looking at in the cpu and usage. so i believe my findings to be correct in that aspect. im not looking at anything but the facts, as for the amount of resources used, i got those tallies STRAIGHT off of swgcraft.com so thats where im going to use as my quotes for numbers.
Damn it jim, im a dr not a chef.
later
Morganite
Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:24 am
#11
You have to make a drink container, or else you cannot make brandy. I compared the resources required to make something that would actually sell. sure, I could have compared brandy made in a small glass, but nobody would buy that unless I was the only chef on the server,
I am a chef, I am also a doc, I am telling you what it takes to make brandy that will sell. So you want to compare a brandy that wouldnt sell to a buff that would? I am trying to figure out why you are arguing with me. if you inculded the cost of a small glass in your thoughts, then you didnt take into account the Addatives needed to make it something people will buy. Why take into account high quality avian meat then?(the resource to make high quality buff packs that is generally the limiting factor) It takes 95 resources to make 1 nutrient.
If you want to compare non be'd brandy to high quality buff's, then the docs make a higher profit margin then chef's. Non BE'd brandy you are lucky to sell for 50k.
Morganite
Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:27 am
#12
ZeroK0ol wrote:
Here is a comparitive cost scale
1 crate of brandy 250k
250k/25 volume=10k per set
10k/18 uses per set =555.55 per use of brandy
1 brandy 555crs to buff 3 Stats
Resources per set of brandy =75units
75 units/18uses=4.16
Resources per brandy 4.16
4.16 resources per brandy/555 credits per use
1 Brandy use = 133cpu for total resources used in final buying
This is completely inaccuriate, then SWGcraft is wrong. Hell, even I was wrong, it takes 150 gemstone and 2 identicial trim to make 1 cask.(I had my mind fixed on the 75k of gemstones it takes to make 500 casks)therefore your 75 units of resources is already horribly wrong, therefore making the rest of your excercise also wrong, and innaccuriate..
ZeroK0ol
Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:31 am
#13
ok, if ur gonna flame, do it right.
1-i took no costs into effect, otherwise i would have posted the buff price as 20k, not 10.
as for the brandy components, i took them straight from the site, just as i did with the enhance packs, otherwise id have added in the cost for Janta blood and removed the resources required for the bio effect controller.
troll somewhere else, im putting up comparative pricing. for the units used. and as for the pricing, brandy buffs 3 stats, enhance packs buff 6, adding in the casks as you say would only increase the cpu for the brandy and thus proving that buffs should cost even more than listed.
i didnt go for buffs that would SELL, i just listed the cost per unit used at 10k for how much people DO pay for 10k buffs. these buffs could be buffing 1.5k for 2 hours for all i care, i didnt list quality of anything used. my reference to the 300cpu for avian meat was thrown in AFTER the comparisons, if your going to take that into effect, i just laid out a ton of Ikyb dath carn meat (very nice spawn on bria) which made my nutrients at a power of 26, this stuff was going for up to 50cpu.... rancor meat. So i KNOW that chefs also have times when they pay through the teeth for things. u came in here with a bad attitude when all i was doing was listing how much a user pays per unit of resource, not any specific resources used. U found the door on the way in, u know where it is on the way out?
ok, all that aside, im just kidding, america, u know i love you.
ps-Morganite, come up with what you consider comparative pricing, i will edit my original post with a paste of what you come up with if its feasible with all acknowledgements for it going to whom created it. Better yet, i do see what you said, and its valid. ill do it over too.
Message Edited by ZeroK0ol on 08-06-2004 12:36 PM
Message Edited by ZeroK0ol on 08-06-2004 12:36 PM
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