Doctor Archive
Thread: About the DevChat Area Cures and Innoculations : Feedback Time, Folks
RommiLancaster
Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:19 pm
#66
Last I checked also, one ofour Doctors titles is "Field Surgeon" 
Houdani
Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:54 pm
#67
I recommend against using any sort of argument stating that CMs are the chemical warfare specialists ... therefore CMs should get the /cure commands.
Why? Because by that same token, Doctors are the healing specialists ... would CMs be willing to giveDoctors the ranged and area stimpacks?
Titles are not what matters here. Balance, is what we are really discussing.
H.
ShoDrJoven
Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:31 am
#68
vortexala wrote:
- How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?) hmm, well I see a lot of good ideas here any one of them might help out, but they all tend to break stuff or create busy work for a profession. I suggest we use what we have but add a few new skills to Doc. Basically I believe a doc should start learning how to cure poisons and disease then move up to innoculations at the top of 2 different trees. My proposal is we use the current cure poison/disease packs(a/b/c) add a duration stat to them(like buff you would experiment on effectiveness to effect power and duration), but don't use it until the doc has innoculatePoison and innoculateDisease. To do this we could move Cure Disease down and over to Advanced Doctor Medicine Knowledge, then at the top of Wound Treatment(Master)place the new skill of innoculatePoison and top of Doctor Medicine Knowledge(Master) place the new skill innoculateDisease. Duration should be very short as to avoid the whole buff bot issue 1-5 mins, 10 max. Power should be in ball parks everyone has been mentioning pack A 10-20, B 30-40, C 50-70. The power at the cure level should be a % of chance to cure(this could have a multiplier based on strength of the poison or disease your trying to cure) and at the innoculate level % of disease/poison blocked. I'm not sure if you should have to cure 1st then innoculate or if the innoculate should cut the existing state when applied, I'll leave that up to the group. Also kinda off topic but related I believe state should receive a similar upgrade by way of innoculateState added to the top of the Medicine Assemble(Master) tree and heal state moved from novice to Advanced Medicine Assemble. As there only one pack it should have a limited affect like 10-20% of blocking the state on top of any other modifiers the person has in place. State innoculate and cure should work similarly to the way I described disease/poison cure/innoculate above. Please don't kick the state thing around too much I just put out there to see if there was any interest. Maybe we could start a different thread for it.
- How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?) Area Cures, I don't think I've seen anything that really works, it either lessen doc necessity or nerfs the CM by moving AE to Doc. Now before the CM try to turn me into Mr Hanky, let me throw out this alterative(yes bad pun, get over it). What about a a method to stop the poison or disease from hitting(vs curing it) thats an area effect? I'm thinking like a air dispersal device, thrown in the air before an disease/poison attack happens with a few ticks duration(a few secs maybe a min max) that has chance to stop any income attacks, basically rendering the poison or disease in the air inert. It should only be able to focus on one attack type at a time and have a fairly long reload/lunch time, slightly longer then dispersion it self. You should be able replace dispersion type at will with caveat that timer for each type are in effect(can't repeatedly switch between types) and each new dispersion replacing any existing one that is in affect for that area. I think this add a bit of interesting strategy to the CM profession and stop the macro/pre-programmed attack as you need to counter what your enemy CM are doing or planing, like docs have been for a while.
- And finally... Why should Docs get any of it over Combat Medics? I think plenty people made many great points on why doc should have Innoculations, but my main point would be it gets out of the spaceport and the back of the field/battlefield. It keeps the CGW interesting for us and let everyone play a bit more before they wakeup on their back in the clone center. I think the same could be said for the dispersal device I mention for CM it keep things interesting and adds to the strategy involved in playing the proffesion
just my 2 cents and pocket lint
Aby, MD
taloncard
Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:36 am
#69
vortexala wrote:
- How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
This is definately a doc skill, not sure where to implement it, should be similar to resources as the disease units. Effect is no posion/disease for x min. It should last a min of 30 min and be able to be over written.
- How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
while I don't like the idea of needing a cm to counter a cm this goes to the range of cm, There are siginifent problems with this though. it takes away a Doc skill giving more benefit to being a CM. As much as this idea will be flamed I think a better solution would be to eliminate the area posion/disease and make it a single target effect. Then you would eliminate the need for the inoculations and the area cures.
- And finally... Why shouldDocs get any of it over Combat Medics?
Cure posion and Cure disease are Doc areas of expertise. CM is like doc a support profession. It should not be the be all end all decider for PvP no profession should.
To Roustabout, sorry for taking your thread idea, but wanted to keep it allwith the same format
Callyndra
Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:04 pm
#70
In short: Innoculations - Docs,Area Cures - CMs.
Innoculations should serve as a counter to the CM Potency stat, in terms of calculating whether or not a poison sticks. Rather than being a simple A/B/C buff with respectively longer durations, having it this way would allow for innoculations to have varying degrees of power, and still allow for the chance of a specially-experimented CM poison/disease to slip through. (By doing it this way, you can also give it similar durations as most buff packs....without providing complete immunity on the battlefield.)
Since CMs need to choose on whether to experiment on Potency, Duration, or Effectiveness between their component experimentation and the assembly of the actual poisons/diseases, some CMs may voluntarily elect to have a much much much lower effectiveness poison/disease with lower durations in favor of a greater chance of slipping through innoculations. It would give CMs a reason to experiment on Potency and add variety to the CM class, as well as usefulness to the Doc profession.
With regard to area "cures", I'd rather not see CMs get equipped with an identical ability to Docs, but perhaps instead receive the ability to affect it in a different way. Docs can cure poisons, and with the addition of innoculations as described above, provide a sort of resistance against CM potency. Perhaps CMs can get some kind of area poison/disease mitigation which reduces the duration of poisons/diseases applied on their group, so even if they do get poisoned/diseased, it won't last as long.
I'd rather not see a doc point blank area cure for the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread: it will cause groups to cluster around their doctor, increasing their value as an area poison/disease target. It's counter-productive to implement it that way. However, I do respect that docs don't want to give away their curing ability to CMs....which is why I propose this type of duration mitigation (for lack of a better term).
GoatsSWG
Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:26 am
#71
Anyone who thinks CM should get cure poison/disease doesn't PVP, Cure poison/disease is the main thing that makes being a doc in PVP fun.
Trichome2
Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:17 am
#72
I have not read all of these posts but i think that whatever you do give the area cures to the doc not the cm and make the inouclations doc too. I think the doc should have to work with a master cm to make the new stuff ie. the fire blankets need a tailor to make the synth cloth.
Kavedawg
Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:50 am
#73
Here are my compiled thoughts on the subject, chew it up if you feel it necessary.
Innoculations (Doc crafted, Doc & CM used)
give doctors the BASE blueprint (resource requirements do not differ between a health poison and a mind poison)of the CM's single (doc version)and Area (cm version) poison/disease and use the same resources and components exceptfor the infection amplifier slot. Repace the IA requirement with a Liquid Suspension requirement with quantity of liquid suspensionsdependenton the innoculation class (A class, B class, or C class) .
- Doctor version
- Long lasting with an effectivness rating less than a single CM poison
- Must be applied in a medcenter or near a droid
- can only protect one pool from poison and two pools/substats from disease
- single target only (like current doc buffs)
- Doctors can not stack the A, B, and C class innoculations
- CM Version
- Short termwith an effectivness ratingless than an area poison duration equal to area poisons of the same class
- can be applied in the field
- point blank AE only hits members in the CM group
- Can be stacked on a doctors innoculation or could be applied to a second pool
- CM's can stack the A, B, and C class innoculations
The above innoculation is ment only to curb the damage of the CM's area poison since that is the paticular poison/disease that would make a MCM look overpowered. CM's are still allowed to stack an area poison and a single target poison countering the innoculation but only on a individual basis. CM's could also throw a area poison effecting a different pool (something other than mind ) to bypass an opponents innoculation but since health and action are healable by anyone with novice medic, these poisons can be countered effectively. Also since the innoculation is based on the CM poison schematic, the innoculation effectivnes will be almost as dependant on resource shifts as the CM poisons. Innoculations, in my view, should be like a medical armor. No armor is 100% effective against every damage type, rarely 100% against one damage type, and often has a vulnarablity
Area Cure (Doc Crafted Doc use point blank)
the same blueprint as the current cures but add a Dispersal Mechinisim requirement dependenant on the Class ( 1 for A, 2 for B, 3 for C) and AE dependant on the Dispersal mech used. but before this you may want to push the issue since doctors can halva cure now and with the innoculation and area cure abilitiesthe devs may want to re-examine the cure effectivnes vs poison/disease effectiveness . Also to one shot cure a single C poison made with a spider venom drop, the cure pack should be required to use a powerful loot drop as well
the only way I see putting a balanced version ofarea curein game is if all doctor cures are changed to follow the same rulesets as CM poisons. As things are now, if a doctor spams /curepoison with one A cure in his inventory, the effectivness of the cure adds with each application. A CM poison receives no additional boost to effectivness when the same type of poison is applied to a target repeataly and if two CM's throw the same poison type at the same target, only the more effective poison is used for damage caculations.
So if the devs are bent on adding an area cure, all cures should act in the same mannor as poison in reguards to stacking. A second application of cure to a target using the same cure pack will not reduce the effectivness of the poison, instead the doctor would be required to use a B pack, or C pack to remove any traces of a poison that were left over from the initial cure attempt. If a second doctor were to come along using the same level cure, no additional reduction of poison damage should occur unless the second doctors cure had a higher effectivness rating than the first doctors.
also the effectivness of cures vs the effectivness of poisons need to brought in line before the change takes place. The effectivness of area cures should be no greater than the best manufactured CM area poisons at each class level. A reapplication of a SAME TYPE CM poison would void the previous cure application (ie CM throws single C poison, single cure a is used, CM throws a second single C poison at same target, singlecure a can be used again, if the CM threw an Area C poison, a different cure would need to be used) this would make it possible for a poison damage tic in a battle if the cures were not made using the same effort CM's put into gathering resources for their poisons.
It is my opinion that innoculations alone can be made to balance CM issues AND that combat balance will never be achieved untill mind is properly healable.
Message Edited by Kavedawg on 07-21-2004 02:00 PM
Kavedawg
Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:42 pm
#74
wow...not even a "are you out of your wookiee mind"
kinda thought I would get some response after calling for basicly a "nerf" to doc cures
Gouta
Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:57 pm
#75
Kavedawg wrote: It is my opinion that innoculations alone can be made to balance CM issues AND that combat balance will never be achieved untill mind is properly healable.
I agree that innoculations alone should go in first. They should use components that are made by CM's for class interdepency. Once implemented sit back and see if it is brought back into balance. And sometime next year (or later) when/if they do there combat revamp as its called now and Mind damage is healable that would fix lots of problems not only CM's.
Allah_Killed_My_Kitten
Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:06 am
#76
Making innoculations give a chance to resist is a bad idea. Everyone has seen how versitile crafting can be. Sooner or later the formula for the best possible innoculation will be found and then the CM's will boost potency in an attempt to beat the best innculation that can be made. When it comes to that point, one or the other will always win. The only result is either innoculations will defeat such a high percantage of posions, or high potency posions will defeat such a high percentage of innoculations that one will be made obsolete.
Make innoculatons give a percent reduction in damage.
Area cures are troublesome. Giveing them to docs infringes on the ranged aspect of CMs and giving them to CMs infringes on Docs cure ability.
Give CMs and area pack that will stop damage for a time period, say, two minutes. This gives the victum time to get to the Doc and then the Doc can do what they are supposed to do. You can even put a delay posion pack in mastermedic and expand it to a ranged AoE version for CM's. This will actually make Docs more valuable as they will have more chance to heal the sick. It also fits into what CM's should be doing on a battlefield, keeping people alive through the fight.
Voss
ChunTheUnavoidable
Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:35 pm
#77
I feel that the innoculations should be applied off the woundtreatment timer, and last for some reasonable time period (30min - 60min perhaps). I'm not sure I like the idea of AoE cures for anyone, and especially not for Combat Medics.
Slash_DPC
Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:53 am
#78
Here I go:
Innoculations:
-Doctors only (crafted and applied)
-should last about 30 minutes
-should NOT make someone completely resistant to poison and disease. This will make poison/disease resist tapes and clothing, such as aaukuan robes and belts, useable for a good reason.
-should be crafted w/ at least BEC's, and CDRM's,
Area Cures:
-Doctors only
-AREA OF EFFECT DOES NOT MEAN RANGED!!!! If its thrown from 40 meters away, then its ranged.
-Should hit everyone in a 15 meter radius.
-Example: 10 people are diseased. They all crowd around the doc and he does 1 area disease cure. It might not heal all the disease the first time, maybe significantly reduce the strength, but the second area cure will definatly get rid of everyone's disease. Essentially, this is just a way of using one /curedisease to hit everyone. Lets say it takes the doc enough time to heal 9 of those 10 ppl using single target curepoison packs, and that 10th person's disease ticks. Theoreticly, a cm could keep throwing diseases until everyone of those 10 ppl dies. Just something to think about.
-should be crafted w/ at least BEC's, and Liquid Suspensions.
Area Ranged Cures (my idea)
-CM and Doctor
-Same attributes as an area cure described above except you can throw it 50 meters. This will require you to have both doctor and combat medic. Maybe not master but who wouldn't be master of both by the time you've used so many skill points.
Tell me what you guys think
Innoculations:
-Doctors only (crafted and applied)
-should last about 30 minutes
-should NOT make someone completely resistant to poison and disease. This will make poison/disease resist tapes and clothing, such as aaukuan robes and belts, useable for a good reason.
-should be crafted w/ at least BEC's, and CDRM's,
Area Cures:
-Doctors only
-AREA OF EFFECT DOES NOT MEAN RANGED!!!! If its thrown from 40 meters away, then its ranged.
-Should hit everyone in a 15 meter radius.
-Example: 10 people are diseased. They all crowd around the doc and he does 1 area disease cure. It might not heal all the disease the first time, maybe significantly reduce the strength, but the second area cure will definatly get rid of everyone's disease. Essentially, this is just a way of using one /curedisease to hit everyone. Lets say it takes the doc enough time to heal 9 of those 10 ppl using single target curepoison packs, and that 10th person's disease ticks. Theoreticly, a cm could keep throwing diseases until everyone of those 10 ppl dies. Just something to think about.
-should be crafted w/ at least BEC's, and Liquid Suspensions.
Area Ranged Cures (my idea
)-CM and Doctor
-Same attributes as an area cure described above except you can throw it 50 meters. This will require you to have both doctor and combat medic. Maybe not master but who wouldn't be master of both by the time you've used so many skill points.
Tell me what you guys think