Doctor Archive
Thread: Dev Response to Recent Enahancement Med Use Issues (12/02/2003)
They say this :
Unfortunately the process of fixing this bug involved fixing how the final Med Use rating was determined on these packs, because it was obviously reversed. In reversing the formula used, so that it was determined correctly again, it also reversed how the Medicine Usage level was determined. In other words EnhancementD Packs are now showing a base Medicine Usage level in the 90s, instead of in the 70s. This is where the Medicine Usage level should have always been on these packs to begin with. So in implementing the
I say thats hogwash - give us the equations before the NERF they are trying to pass off as a fix, and Ill tell you its complete crap - the only way it ends up being higher is if they MADE it result higher thats absolute hogwash and BS - Politics should be the developers line of work - this game is evidence that they arent very good game designers - but they can screw you with fast talk a smile better that any politician I have ever seen
Not sure I can really respond to that. You seem a bit too angry to try to take this one on reasonably. I will only reiterate again that what they fixed was a borked formula. Med use levels is a variable. A distinct difference in the coding world.
As for never getting to 70, according to my understanding that should be complete hogwash. Have you tried using 1000 OQ/PE/UT/DR/MAL resources to make an enhance pack yet? THen tried to only experiment on Med Use?
Yeah, it would make a pretty powerless enhance, but it should be achievable because the formula that allowed us to have that low of a Med Use is the same one that was there before, just reversed.
The part you seem to have missed is where they will be looking at med use levels. Personaly I think at least Health and Action Ds should be in the 80s, instead of the 90s. It screws some folks out from using a particular template, true. I don't know what to say to that. Many other Docs felt such templates were far too strong to begin with and have long felt that we should have a greater range of Med Use levels on those Enhances. So it;s not just the Devs, but other Docs who say Med Use of 70 on those packs was just too low. May as well get mad at all of them, too.
Thanks again Zarlor, u will be missed!
As for never getting to 70, according to my understanding that should be complete hogwash. Have you tried using 1000 OQ/PE/UT/DR/MAL resources to make an enhance pack yet? THen tried to only experiment on Med Use?
The point of this buff being med use 70 and less usefull than a middle of the road C would be ?
I know that every time I have tried experimenting on just med use I run out of points pretty fast - before I have done that many points of effect - either way all it in net effect does is insure that only master docs or very close are using D - whatever I just hate that they basically lie to explain an pretty obvious oversight on their part - either way its insulting that they expect us to believe that there was NO other way to fix them but to change the base rate to 90. What really happened was they realized that 70 was way lo and they needed to up it to keep the balance of the game and who can use what in tact. Thats a long time to take to notice that - but ok ...
Lumache wrote:
[snip]
What really happened was they realized that 70 was way lo and they needed to up it to keep the balance of the game and who can use what in tact. Thats a long time to take to notice that - but ok ...
Well, you can believe they are lying to you if you want. I don't see what the percentage is in it for them to do that and the reasoning for why itt was so screwed up in the first place makes sense to me that the raise in Med Use was not the intended effect, because it wasn't realized it was that low to begin with. (It wouldn;t have been if the formula were correct.) Your arguments are based on the assumption that they just raise Med Use.
Well, if that is what you wish to believe, there is simply nothing to debate here, I guess.
All I will add is that bandying about accusations of lies... well I can't really concieve of a greater insult, but then again I'm a southerner with a firm belief in honor. Won;t make business sense for the Dev team to take offence at that but I sure wouldn;t blame them if they did. Those are really strong and really harsh accusations. You really should be able to back something like that up before making those kinds of statements. That's just my take, though.
All I can say is that I'm sorry your mad about this. I'm sorry that a game is affecting you so strongly. Overall this profession works pretty good and there are a lot of positives in it with very few problems like this one showing up for us. Most everythign we've had have been positive changes. That's what I try to keep in mind.
I dont believe that the act of fixing the issue forced the change as they state. Sorry I dont believe it - not for a second.. I do believe that they actually spent a second to look at it and then decided that 70 was in fact low and rather than open up a debate they pass it off as a result of the fix - read the devs post - it says as a direct result of fixing the issue the base was raised .. I dont buy it - I DO buy that maybe it was lo and maybe it needed to be changed up - I dont like them trying to pass that off on us ...
so do I feel misled? - absolutely and yes the way the devs handle things and the powerlessness I feel about crafting colors and other things being summarily removed from the game leads to great frustration - absolutely - I do feel that tings like removing the city warning feature instead of comming up with a creative solution are not ok. I feel that if just a LITTLE creativity was put into the game where the major problems are concerned that much better solutions to them could be found. I think the game could be TONS more fun.. and so on - but basically to sum it up - they are focused on nerfs and not content and fixes .. I am starting to honestly and seriously doubt that they even PLAY the game they make - they feel WAY WAY out of touch with the gameplay and what belongs where - I speak with many many people that feel the same way everyday.
And southern honor - spare me - ... I live here too .. the simple fact that was left untouched so long is evidenced that they put us lo on the totem pole - which is well - I dont know how to feel since in general the NUMEROUS bugs that doctors suffer from are by comparison to the rest of the game, small and largely unobtrusive. Does this make me feel better or worse about the process and the company ? I have to be honest worse ... 5 months into this games development they are furiously adding new content and piling on bugs that warrant more attention than some that have been in the game for a long time... I really honestly think they have been getting away with murder for a long time- they rushed the game to release - they started taking peoples money before they were really ready to do that... Im supposed to reward them for being greedy and forgive the fact they are now in the pile it on and sort out the best they can scenerio ? I dont feel sorry for them at all.. I dont feel as if that explanation was an honest one at all .. Lets revisit it again -- as a direct result of the fix the base was raised to 90. I dont buy that - they could make the base whatever they wanted to make it - they are the programmers, again what I think is the truth is : in the process of fixing it we took a hard look at the metrics and decided the number that was the base was lo and decided to up it - which is a decision we made and we stand by it - that I would and could respect - but again not much we can do - which leads me back to my anger - thats how I feel- I feel like the dev team is a steam roller and be thee wary about pointing them in your classes direction as once they get started, there is no stopping them and there is little chance of unpaving the roads they plow....
Well, all I can point to is that there have been times when they felt that something was wrong and needed a nerf and they have flat out stated that very thing. They did not state that this time. The variables did not change, the formula did. It was revesed. Instead of going from 70-100 it now goes back to 100-70. I've done a good bit of programming in my life and made more than a few of the same kinds of mistakes myself, on far less complex code. /shrug
I guess I must only be human. The Dev team apparentlyare not allowed tobe. It is your money, after all, however. I think if I felt the way you did I would let my wallet do my talking for me.
And you can scorn my belief in honor, but that is your right. At least it is not my honor you question.
Here is my problem with this whole issue. First I have almost 30 years of programming experiance, most of it VERY complex code. I am talking missle guidance systems, imaging systems, complex AI interfaces.
That being said... If I were to find a simular problem with code I was working with, and after fixing it, found that the values output were very different than what had been coming out in the past. I would have to check how well the old values worked. If they had been working properly I would not consider the problem"FIXED" until the old value range was restored. I would not release the "fixed" code to live until the system was BOTH working properly, using the correct formula, AND outputing the correct value range. And I have seen problems like this. The formula was bugged but the output was correct. Usually this is because the programmer that wrote the original code "fudged" the input varibles to make the output in the correct range. The problem is not REALLY fixed until you un-fudge the input varibles again. The idea here is you DON'Tpush to live until you have fixed both the formula and the varibles. The devs did not do this. They fixed the formula and went on. Never even looking at how that affected the output. Sorry this is sloppy work. If this was the first time they had been sloppy that would be one thing, but this game is just full of sloppy work.
What I want to see is a list of the developers names. No I don't want to bug them. I just want to make a note of them, so that I will never, ever again buy any game they have a part in. Sad but true.
Yep - thats true its not you I question - I question them - I stayed away for a month only to return and find that not much had changed except that I cant enter my house unless Im in first person - lest I be shot into the void of grey heaven like spatial nothingness... etc - my pings after traveling from planet often spike to ungodly levels and require reloading the game... I actually locked up solid in the hospital and had to power cycle to resolve that - I havent had a software lock in months - so that was a nice change ... I do absolutely nothing with this box but play SWG on it - its a SWG box - it must be this way to avoid the myriad of lockups I experienced early on ... so yea I question the motives of the developers - I think its plain to see when they are doing crip crappy - yes crip crappy stuff - like removing colorizing your crafts - they lay themselves open to attack at almost every level - I mean what in GODS GOOD GREEN EARTH was colorizing crafts hurting ? They will NEVER ever be able to explain that to me - its just inane !
I think that last post helps give you some insight into the things that lead me to my thoughts about the development team - but come on - I mean you have to have your own doubts - anyone that looks at the bigger picture must - and again they cold have altered the math in the factoring of the points - but that really doesnt matter - much the way posting here means nothing they NEVER change anything - they do what they are going to do - the customer be dammed -look at the petition to remove the 1% damage its huge - the same with the bring back hex coding as far as I know neither will ever be changed - and dammit I liked being able to color my crafts - most other games didnt force almost every support class to also be crafters and this one has done just that, the coloring was small consolation to that otherwise less then desirable fact. Then suddenly we are hurting the merchants with this simple and very nice feature of the game ? so you must excuse me if I question the devs on every single little thing - I think that change warrants this kind of scrutiny. I mean its utterly insane that colored crafting names were removed - and it lessens my enjoyment of that aspect of the game... and aspect they made more dominant than I would have liked or expected going into this game....
But again me getting upset doesnt matter they are banking on the Star Wars name not my satisfaction level to support the game- other games are already belly up or under new management and development staff after pulling FAR less - in logical order to the above mentioned , Ac2 and Earth and Beyond. Ones Dead - or in the process of closing and EnB is under all new - well close to all new development - after the mass exodus that occured there when much the same kind of tactics were employed ... See Earth and Beyond, AC2 and others dont have the star wars name to rely on to provide the hook --- lucky for these guys they do -
I just think that alot of things, very simple things could be done with the end result of making this a much better game all the way around.. and I think alot of people agree with that statement to one degree or another ...