Doctor Archive
Thread: Proposed Doctor Agro and why it worries me.
TORF_ wrote:
This game is a PVP game, PVE is just to build your character. Sony knows it, you should too.
I don't agree - I think they're trying to balance out both aspects, as not everyone is a mass murderer who plays this game (and not every character is a mass murderer either). Remember that 1/2 of the letters of MMORPG have to do with playing a character, not out-button-pressing your opponent.
You want real pvp action go play an fps. Then you'll see what real skill in shooting someone else is all about.
You want a good balance of pvp/pve, play an MMORPG.
That being said...
I don't think a doctor should ever "just stand there" and heal someone within range. I think it should be a run-and-inject-and-run maneuver. Perhaps this is an attempt to make it as such...that if you are just foolishly standing still and healing your tank/other player, that of course a creature standing 2m away is going to take a swipe at you. Perhaps it will have more to do with how you are moving in (are you coming up behind the person you are healing, carefully keeping their incapped body between you and theangry mob,or are you simply running right into the crowd and hoping not to get hit?)
One of the best examples of this sort of healing is when taking on Krayts. Their area-damage/dizzy effect is a prime example of how you really need to develop this kind of healing. I've seen many times when my tank (I'm also CH) is taking damage from the Krayt, and myself and another doctor friend take turns running in and healing it, hoping we get enough healing in so that the tank doesn't go down while we're right there. You don't just stand next to the tank and heal it - you run in, pop the stim, and desperately run back before the area-attack from the krayt incaps you in one hit.
If this were to be even somewhat implemented, you'd see a lot of people getting incapped at first, and then you'd see better players come out of it who use actual player skill when healing tanks/other players. I don't see too much wrong with it as long as it's not done stupidly (you're standing 40m away healing someone else, and the mob aggros...uh..no).
If they decide to do so, we can and will adapt. If they don't, then oh well.
Last night, just to illustrate a point to my friends about the "standing next to the tank and healing" situation, I sat down and healed the tank pets. Never got hit, and my mind never got too low. Come on. . . .
On the flip side, there are plenty of times when I am running all over an area healing people up, so the "stand and heal" trick really is not all that annoying. You will have situations where you can do that, then situations where it is death for the group (and, therefore,you) to do it.
I am a Master Doctor. I play the game mostly for PvE. I do not enjoy PvP all that much, preferring the "everyone works together" aspect of PvE. Just FYI over the PvE / PvP argument, is all.
IMO, it could be a good thing as long as it's done in such a way that it brings an unknown into combat. By that I mean that it's nothappening 100% of the time.
Right now, pets hold aggro about 100% of the time. Makes combat predictable and repeatable. I send in the pet, and shoot from a distance or melee safely while the pets holds aggro. Variablility brings the excitement into the game. For healers, that would mean that sometimes you would get aggro from a mob when you heal in combat. Not always.
If it always happens there is no element of unknown and the AI looks flat. Combat is unexciting since you can easily predict what the mob will do in response to your healing.Garaunteed agrro swappingalso means that you won't be risking heals all that often in combat (since it'll mean insta-death for you). If the mob had some probablility of switching aggro (say 10-20%) then there is a strategic element to the fight. "Is it worth possible death/incapp to me to keep Bob going and possibly save the group? I may be able to get away with healing him." Instead of "No way I'm running in there and trying to save him, it'd mean my head."
It will also makae every encounter somewhat different and unique if there is a probablilty of the mob switching aggro to the healer.
Great post bpeter. I agree with all of it. This is coming from a heavy, but not exclusive, PvE player.
Helping my friends work their way through brawler illustrates the silliness of the current situation. I stand there, with the monster's breath in my face and it doesn't do anything when I throw the third Stim-C on my friend who is pathetically slapping it.
I fully support healer agro.
Managing the 'hate list' was one of the single most tactical aspects of higher level fights in other games of this nature. Ever played a cleric in a high-end EQ encounter (by high-end, I don't mean guk, I mean NTOV at the very least). If you overheal and make the top of the hate list, you die. If that means your group/raid/whatever is wiped out because you couldn't manage your piece of a tactical fight, then you had to answer for it. That's a good thing.
Full pet agro is silly. No agro management is silly. This isn't about being 'unfair' to healers, it's about healers having to learn how to manage fights. Yep, if the rez'er goes down it's a real pain for everyone.
In EQ, if the click stick/healer died, the group either sat and waited for the healer to get back, or they did a /who in the area and tried to buy a rez for their cleric. This is part of interaction and planning. Obviously it's no more inconvenient for the one running back than it is for the group sitting and waiting.
In order for this to be strong, however, the death penalty needs to be reinstated (no more autoinsure), AND it needs to be harder for dabblers to be effective in healing. If a novice medic using stim Bs can be as effective as a doctor in healing during combat, there is less incentive for the group to protect the doctor.
Make a hotkey like /group Help! Help! Agro on the doctor! and mash it when you make your way to the top of the hate list. Mash it too often and both you and your group will know you have an ANGER MANAGEMENT problem =)
I really hope they do something, because it's boring and very un-thrilling right now. This would be a good step in the right direction, IMO.
Emmy
TORF_ wrote:
This game is a PVP game, PVE is just to build your character. Sony knows it, you should too.
HAHAHAHAHA
This was a joke right?
Binaa
Oh no they are proposing a dr gets attacked, this sounds fun actually hehe. COmbat medics are ment to be the upclose in the battle proff not drs, we (i am a master dr) should be in the background making those who need healed come to us, or risk getting in the combat frenzy. I personaly like to fight as much as i like to heal, so i picked up some combat skills to do just that (tka to be precise) works great for when i have to get in close to heal, and contribute greatly to the fight if need be. If you dont want to pick up combat skills have someone put up a camp near where the fighting will be and STAY there. So i say bring on the agro, will make Drs have to use their heads a lil and make others more aware of whats going on and a focus on team work.
mi'a intrepid
master dr
tka 2/2/3/2
I could be for this change, IF there are some tactics to deal with agro. Like, one possible tactic could be (I tend to use this anyhow, even with game mechanics the way they currently are) to have your tanks go attack the mob, as each tank falls, you /drag the tank to you and heal them, then they run back and get agro again while you /drag the next person and heal them. I think heal agro should be distance related, and also based upon whether the player you are healing is currently the one the mob is engaged with, so that I am much less likely to draw agro if I hold back and heal incapped players, than if I am up healing players who are currently being attacked.
As others have stated, if they are going to have healers start getting agro, they need a way for either the tanks to have a chance to pull the agro off the healer again with some sort of taunt, or give the healers some sort of detaunt.
PVE is to easy, they need to make changes like this..
BUT they then need to add some sort of crowd control so you can pull it off healer.
Not like theres a true healer in this game anyways most people have medic skills and with buffs on them i usuauly never have to heal them