Doctor Archive
Thread: Doctor Surveying
Yeah, but SunCrusherTx, that still doesn't address taht there is a fundamental imbalance in treatment of the heavy interdependency requiremest of the Medical Professions over those of any other profession itn eh game. No other profession relies for so much outside of their profession as we do. Whether it's Artisan resources, Scout resources, healing folks for XP and/or money (Ha! Yeah, right), getting mind healing and buffing fromEntertainers, Smugglers and Chefsor even relying on others in our own profession, as miniscule of a market as it may be, for selling our product to (because, nobody is paying for what we actually do with that product, which is to heal... well other than for buffs which almost require Master Doc to really do well.)
Why are the Medical Professions privvy to such an interdependency burden unlike any other profession? I say that either we should have some portion of such a level of dependency lifted from us OR burder the other professions with more. SomehowI don't think that latter idea would go over too well with most players.
Songe wrote:
/disagree
Artisans are the ones supposed to survey. The last thing we need is to have lots of different professions able to do the same things. Besides, that's the reason why you have 250 points, so you can pick up other skills to complete your character.
I agree with Songe:
What about the armorsmith, weaponsmith and chefs? They all take on Artisen for resources so I think we should to, beside...If you are master doctor and take up another skill you will still have enough for Surveying 1.
Armorsmiths, Weaponsmiths and Chefs do NOT need to take Artisan to get /surveying. They need to take Artisan just to become those in the first place, just like we need to take Medic in order to become Doctors.
It costs them nothing extra to have that ability. For them they can at least get some of their resources from their own skills, for Scouts the same is also true. We are the only hybrid profession with as detailed scehmatics as we have, with as large and specific a set of resource requirements as we have that have this massive level of dependency for both surveyable AND harvestable items and have NO way to actually gain XP in our own profession using our own skills for any of the Organic Chemistry line (and it's a serious hindrance without those crafted packs because of the massive damage from the /tendwound command, which is the only other method to get XP without crafting a pack.)
HealingHands wrote:
Songe wrote:
/disagree
Artisans are the ones supposed to survey. The last thing we need is to have lots of different professions able to do the same things. Besides, that's the reason why you have 250 points, so you can pick up other skills to complete your character.
I agree with Songe:
What about the armorsmith, weaponsmith and chefs? They all take on Artisen for resources so I think we should to, beside...If you are master doctor and take up another skill you will still have enough for Surveying 1.
You see, here's the thing.
First, you have the Acknowledged Crafters.
Artisan, Architect, Armoursmith, Chef, Droid Engineer, Tailor, Weaponsmith. Some of these professions require named/specific resources of high quality, some simply require massive quantities of resources regardless of quality. In either case, they all have the same ability to obtain their resources themselves. They 15pt SP sink is built-in for these professions. It's part and parcel of their advancement path. They would've put the 15 SP into their profession regardless of the presence or absence of the ability to survey and sample, it's simply a bonus to them.
Then there is the hybrid crafters.
Rangers/Scouts have built into their profession, at the novice box of the novice profession, the ability to harvest meats, hides and bones. These are resources they require to craft their own goods. As they advance in their profession and are able to obtain more of these resources, they can use them in trade/sale to obtain the few bits of other resources necessary to craft their advanced craftables. None of their resource requirements is overly specific, extremely rare, nor required in an abundance at specific qualities.
Smuggler needs to obtain all their resources from others, yet none of their schematics requires anything truly specific beyond a general type of resource. And all of their resource requirements are easily met and obtained from the bazaar or from any surveyor easily and cheaply.
Musicians need to obtain their resources for their instruments from others as well, however those requirements for a one time crafted object are nothing compared to the consumables of other professions.
The need for these hybrid/partial crafters to have survey/sample is almost nil. Their resource requirements and specificity is little to none.
And then you have the Medical Crafters.
Medics, Doctors and Combat Medics(BE as well to an extent) are neither Recognized Crafting Professions nor Hybrid/Partial crafters.Our sole ability to gather resources being the /medicalforage command. A command whose original intent was to assist the profession, has become nothing more then a mere line on a skillbox, useful for almost nothing.
Our crafted consumables require(and rightly so) high quality resources in order to create the best possible medicines. Our resource needs are also very detailed and specific, with some of our required resources being rarities which are hardly if ever seen. In those ways we not only differentiate ourselves from the Hybrid/Partial crafters and prove that we are more aligned with the Acknowledged crafting professions.
Yet here we find ourselves without the ability to obtain our own resources in the same way the other true crafting professions, and one hybrid/partial crafter, is able to do. We are forced to either give up the 15 SP for novice artisan for these needed abilities or attempt to hire another player to obtain our high-end resources for us, cheaply, instead of simply getting any ore they can find to sell to an Architect for a better profit margin.
So, basically, we're stuck. We're treated as a hybrid/partial crafter in having to spend the SP or hire out while at the same time we're saddled with the resource specificities and quality requirements of the Acknowledged Crafting professions minus the ability to obtain our own resources.
We've all come up with various alternatives and suggestions for ways to give us survey abilities without simply ganking those lines from Novice Artisan, but nothing has ever come of it. And, sadly, it doesn't look like anything will.
The issue here is one of perception...We ARE a True Crafting Profession...it's just that no one else wants to admit it.
You guys seem to be focusing on the /survey ability which is not needed in Medic, Doc, or CM. You can master Doc, and still have the skill points to master a either novice scout or novice artisian. You can switch between the two when ever you want to or have the need to. The problem in Doc, and CM is selling the materials. The Devs need to make it so the merchants or artisians can transfer or add admin to the vendors that they make.
I am part of a PA on ahazi and I do rely heavily on my PA to get the avian meat and Herb meat for the meds but it is possible to get what you need with the skill points that are alloted to you. Everything that I need to make the meds I can get be myself, but I have no way to sell what I make on a vendor unless I give the stuff to the owner of the vendor and hope that they reimbers me when the stuff sells. The has been my problem.
I hope the Devs can think of a solution to theis over a "Pet stim". It just seems that having a way to sell things would be more benifitial to the Doc profession over having the ability to only survey, and or harvest.
Or another interesting Idea would be to give the owner of a hospital a vendor to sell things on. It would not be taking away from the merchant class and would give a obvious Master Doc, or CM the ability to sell meds.
However, I don't think that giving Doctors survey skill is the solution.
The community/economy is not supporting the Doctor profession. Why is there no avian meat, Dolovite Iron, or even Reactive gas on the Bazaar in the entire galaxy? You'd think if some smart Doctor/Artisan got off his butt and starting selling these things, he'd make a load of creds. Is the market too small?
I do like the idea about a "pet stim" for this problem, and I thought of this:
A schematic that artisans get in the survey line. This schem creates a device, called a Auto-Surveyor, that artisans can sell to other professions. This tool takes no skill to use, like Pet stims, and has charges, like pet stims, and gives you the ability to survey for flora or minerals or whatever. I guess different schems for different types of materials.
Essentially its a charged Survey Tool. They can be expensive to make, resource wise, so they will sell for a lot, but I KNOW that people would buy such a tool. They may only work short range too, so master surveyors will still have an edge up.
Its trading your money for skill points, probably points you don't even have. Its good for artisans, becuase its another item they can make and sell easily, like droid packs.
This "pet stim" solution would help out Doc's need for resources (cause you can get em yourself).
Doda wrote:
The community/economy is not supporting the Doctor profession. Why is there no avian meat, Dolovite Iron, or even Reactive gas on the Bazaar in the entire galaxy? You'd think if some smart Doctor/Artisan got off his butt and starting selling these things, he'd make a load of creds. Is the market too small?
I think it's a combination of things. It's too small of a market in terms of independent Docs (many PAs, however, explicitly supply thier Doctors with their resource needs, so it's not an issue for them.) It's also a realtively poor market. Why go through the trouble and expense to acquire Reactive Gas that some Medical Professional will only buy in relatively smaller quantities, of only specific qualities (let's face, many of us Docs are pretty darned picky) and can only pay so much on because overall we're actually a fairlypoor group of professions, when any old Ore will do in massive quantities with a commanding price for Architects, let alon what Armor and Weaponsmiths will pay for their resource needs. /surveyors and /harvestors alike get resources for the professions that will pay them the biggest profit. Toss in hologrinders into mix who will pay prices so far out of the range of what the average Doc could even come close to handling and there's not much of a market for our stuff out there, except to get it ourselves, like we've always done.
Hence we are all still trying to figure out what the big deal is in why anyone would think we could even make a dent in the surveyor pocketbook. How can we put someone out of a job they never did in the first place?
vortexala wrote:The issue here is one of perception...We ARE a True Crafting Profession...it's just that no one else wants to admit it.
It irritates me that we're seen as hybrid crafters because we have a single tree that requires crafting experience. The other 3 trees are required to make that stuff work. without them, it doesn't go. A stimpack B isn't like a deed to a house. It won't magically apply itself to someone who is hurt. There is a skill that goes along with it. Or, more specific to doctors. Just because you can make an enhance pack doesn't mean you can use it. you have to spend the points on /healenhance AND on having the appropriate ammount of medical use skill.
All skills in doctor are tied into the creation and use of medicine, at a greater skillpoint cost than "pure" crafting classes that create items usable by anyone without certification (every crafter but weaponsmith really).
Musicians are in their own special boat too, but since they don't have to churn out slitherhorns for hours to progress through their crafting tree, we'll ignore them
Doda wrote:
...The community/economy is not supporting the Doctor profession. Why is there no avian meat, Dolovite Iron, or even Reactive gas on the Bazaar in the entire galaxy? You'd think if some smart Doctor/Artisan got off his butt and starting selling these things, he'd make a load of creds. Is the market too small?
Absolutely not. Many vendors (on Bloodfin at least) do indeed sell these resources, but they sell out so quickly, many never know they existed. Myself...sadly, I must say goodbye to the profession I have been a part of since I began playing SWG. However, I will going up the Artisan trees, and I have every intention of opening a vendor on Bloodfin dedicated to catering to the needs of doctors. Avian meat, herbivore meat, tat fiber, class 2 LP, dolovite...all will be present and accounted for at reasonable prices. The least I can do for my colleagues..and yes, I am sure I will make a tidy sum off that vendor. I will post here when I get it running.
Well I am happy for Bloodfin then because it doesn't happen most everywhere else.
Also what is needed is the equivilent of survey 2 or 3. Have you ever tried to find a hot spot on a planet with a 64m range? It take hours.
Since doctors keep being undermined because of pet stims, new food, no vendor type we need to be like EVERYONE else and master another profession. And we cannot do that and take survey.
Because they need survey and cannot master a third profession like EVERYONE else because of skill points used in artisan (for survibal) Doctors as a whole cannot even elect to open a holo unless they are prepared to master doctor. Is that fair.
For those that have commented on vendor types that has been on the top 10 for a long time also..but that is a separate subject.
Doctors need survey/sample to make their wares and all other crafters get that. Those very few in a PA that will do this for you I am happpy for you but you are not the majority. All other crafters get the base skills to do their craft like survey and sample. Medic/CM/Doctor do not. And on top of that we are continually undermined on our ability to make money.
Sounds like a major balance issue to me.
I'm not the smartest person in the world, but I do have the day off, so I may as well chime in.
As I read this thread, I can't help thinking that most of the comments here seem to point to the one issue that I have supected to be the problem all along: that the servers are just plain under-populated.
It seems to me that the propoesed fixes to the Doctor profession (better medical forage, a special survey tool, etc,) would all basically serve the same purpose: to make the Doctor more independent of the other professions; less reliant on them for supplies. Why do we want that? Because there are simply not enough Artisans and Scouts who are willing/able to fill the medical supply niche.
Frankly, I think this is a concern for the good people at Sony too (check out the new "Buddy Key" program) and I'm wondering if the recent "Christmas Holocron" give-away wasn't more of an attempt to force people into new professions (in the hopes they might like it?) rather than any token of good cheer.
Maybe we should be asking for a good, old fashioned server consolidation. Though I don't see how that would work with all the player cities overlapping the same popular geography on various servers. . .