Doctor Archive
Thread: What happened to the Hippocratic Oath? GCW ruins the doctor's proffession
Sunakk
Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:03 pm
#14
Ciiv wrote:
what if some sort of safe area was put in place, not like a camp, like a city's hospital, and inside this hospital, no one can fight, and the doctors could heal anyone they want. However as soon as the injuredleave the hospital, they would be able to be attacked again. Seems theres a fine line, you take the fact that you can just go see a recruiter and become on leave, but youre not always in a city and such, sometimes youll be out 5k from a shuttle, killing things with someone, having a blast, and you get just about blackbarred by something, like a giant kimo lets say. You do a search and realise a doctor is nearby and communicate with him to meet to heal you. Granted you could say, why is the doctor out there in the field in the first place? But, its a game, he can do whatever he wants to do, so thats not the issue. So you meet this doctor and he cant heal you cause of faction stuff. And theres no recruiters near you to become on leave, so what do you do? Waste half an hour going to a city to become on leave? Something needs to happen yes, but its going to be a fine line to seperate, and should be very well thought out. There may be consequences on either end.
When you do your search, include your faction. /who Doctor Imperial, for example. You can also do this from the search window on the community window. That would saved you the hassle. Heck, if you only like Twi'lek healers (cuz they're so cool and all), you could search from them as well.
The thing about a "safe zone" is that it just doesn't jive with Star Wars. They have battle in all sorts of settings, and make it obvious that the galaxy is such a wild place that battle can happen anywhere, including Medical Centers. Sure, most people frown upon fighting in Med Centers, possibly even more than patients frown on tumblers, but it fits the Star Wars universe, something the game should try to mimic as close as possible (and is doing a better job all the time).
I_Luv_Wob
Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:37 pm
#15
Just like in real life (ThereI go bringing the dreaded real life into this game) the Hippocratic Oath has consequences.
You can follow your oath, and take the consequences
OR
You can be a coward and choose not to heal.
Harsh? Nope. If you truely believe in the oath (As a character) you'll heal and get shot at. You might even get killed. But you were true to yourself. Or, you could take the coward's way out and whine and cry about how you can't heal Blah blah blah and watch people die because you refuse to help.
No two ways about this. War is harsh, war requires people to make decisions and choices that they normally would never think they had to. But if you choose not to choose you have no right to complain.
I say this after watching my girlfriend (who has NO COMBAT SKILLS AT ALL) healing people in a heated battle against stormtroopers. She managed to heal three people before she was broght down. She did it because it was the right thing to do.
If you decide not to help...thats your choice.
Traigus
Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:38 pm
#16
People will and do run in and out of safe zones... to exploit AI and PVP.. they'd run in... get healed safely and run back out to gank whomever. People wil also camp the exits of a med center, waiting for you to come out again.
It sounds mean to regular players, but you have to design rules with the jerks in mind. 1 person really can ruin it for everybody.
-T
It sounds mean to regular players, but you have to design rules with the jerks in mind. 1 person really can ruin it for everybody.
-T
Jagii
Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:09 pm
#17
When the new GCW changes came, I was also thinking of alternative ways to get doctors back into the healing business. But after doing more thinking, I've come to the conclusion that this system is the best it's gonna get.
I toyed around with the idea of letting the faction status of the city determine who can be healed in the medical center. For example, say an Imperial player (combatant or special forces) comes to the Bestine medical center for healing. Any on-leave Rebels, civilians, or Imperials could heal this player. To me, the idea sounded good in theory...I mean, why shouldn't an Imperial get preferential treatment in an Imperial city? But then I thought about how friggin' exploitive the general player base could be and how players would circumvent the INTENT of this system. And after a while, I had unraveled my own system - I found out how I could exploit it and thus bring PvP and PvE to a new low. This design for medical centers that IS flawed.
The biggest strength that the current GCW healing system has is that it shuts down any loopholes. There are hard and fast rules and so far there isn't a way to get around them. (Besides the buffing discrepancy, but that's another topic)
= Andrew
Chilastra.Palacek
I toyed around with the idea of letting the faction status of the city determine who can be healed in the medical center. For example, say an Imperial player (combatant or special forces) comes to the Bestine medical center for healing. Any on-leave Rebels, civilians, or Imperials could heal this player. To me, the idea sounded good in theory...I mean, why shouldn't an Imperial get preferential treatment in an Imperial city? But then I thought about how friggin' exploitive the general player base could be and how players would circumvent the INTENT of this system. And after a while, I had unraveled my own system - I found out how I could exploit it and thus bring PvP and PvE to a new low. This design for medical centers that IS flawed.
The biggest strength that the current GCW healing system has is that it shuts down any loopholes. There are hard and fast rules and so far there isn't a way to get around them. (Besides the buffing discrepancy, but that's another topic)
= Andrew
Chilastra.Palacek
munhihausen
Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:43 pm
#18
I must agree w/the original poster. I really enjoy healing people in the med center be they rebel or imperial, on leave, or special forces. its not a big deal when im in theed. but elsewhere it is a pain to find a recruiter. but that would be cheap to heal w/no tef. i am conflicted
Ciiv
Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:31 am
#19
what if some sort of safe area was put in place, not like a camp, like a city's hospital, and inside this hospital, no one can fight, and the doctors could heal anyone they want. However as soon as the injuredleave the hospital, they would be able to be attacked again. Seems theres a fine line, you take the fact that you can just go see a recruiter and become on leave, but youre not always in a city and such, sometimes youll be out 5k from a shuttle, killing things with someone, having a blast, and you get just about blackbarred by something, like a giant kimo lets say. You do a search and realise a doctor is nearby and communicate with him to meet to heal you. Granted you could say, why is the doctor out there in the field in the first place? But, its a game, he can do whatever he wants to do, so thats not the issue. So you meet this doctor and he cant heal you cause of faction stuff. And theres no recruiters near you to become on leave, so what do you do? Waste half an hour going to a city to become on leave? Something needs to happen yes, but its going to be a fine line to seperate, and should be very well thought out. There may be consequences on either end.
MyT_Chicken
Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:39 am
#20
TheAincient
Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:09 am
#21
I mentioned this in another thread.
How about make healing a nutral activity.
In other words, only nutrals can heal, if you are a CM or a doc and you join a fraction you lose your healing ability.
Fractions should be able to hire doctors, but the doctor remains nutral and recives no fractional perks.
Anyway, I'm not sure myself if this is a good idea or not, but I believe the current situation is wrong.
How about make healing a nutral activity.
In other words, only nutrals can heal, if you are a CM or a doc and you join a fraction you lose your healing ability.
Fractions should be able to hire doctors, but the doctor remains nutral and recives no fractional perks.
Anyway, I'm not sure myself if this is a good idea or not, but I believe the current situation is wrong.
Jenya_Malik
Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:30 am
#22
I personally feel this HAS to be changed, I can deal with not buffing em, they know this and I know this, I can deal with no heals, I can even deal with only healing "civvies" and "leavers" what I CAN'T deal with is not being able to rez WHOEVER, WHENEVER.
I became a doc to help people, not to make money (maybe I'm in the minority) lemme share a story with you....
A long time ago in a galaxy far away... SWG: Eclipse
I was standing in the middle of a hardcore Imp town (I am Imp) and about to use the shuttle to go to my won Imp town, when I get a tell
Corpse "can you rez me?"
Corpse "I'm at -**** -****"
I check my map after creating a waypoint for this location 6km away
Me "How long have you been corpsed?"
Corpse "Just Died"
Me "I'll shuttle over to * and be right there"
I purchase a ticket for the closest town, and off I go
I land in this rebel town and immediately call my AV-21 and get a flash across my screen "BANNED"
I ignore this message and keep going to the target
and what do I find when I get there? A rebel corpse, now I try to rez him, but nothin, try it through the inventory(double click rez pack) nothin
now he's getting decay, and I wasted my time AND got banned from a city!
I genuinely wanted to help him out, I didn't care about money or faction, I hate to die, and I like to help others prevent decay etc...
Why can't I at least RP this side of the Doc? now keep in mind that buffing is bugged with the new system yet, so I can buff all the SF rebels I want even faster than anyone else(fire,fire,fire,fire,fire,fire,done - no delays!!!) but I can't rez em?
Twitchie
Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:26 am
#23
Hm........well, after a week with the new system, then taking a two-week "ISP enforced break" (meaning I couldn't pay the bill..........lmao) I'm not seeing a real problem with it.
First off, you can buff everyone now, where in the previous TEF or Overt system, you'd either get TEF'd yourself, and some idiot would gank you, or you couldn't buff just one person..........God, I got tired of trying to explain that. As long as your combatant, you can buff anyone. Healing follows typical wartime rules now, as far as I can tell.....
You're not Red Cross, you're not given the choice of being neutral anymore. While I enjoy being a doc, I do realize that I've chosen a side, and I shouldn't be healing Imps to go out and kill my own faction. It's a silly complaint, really. What I feel they're trying to do is bring the war to more realistic standards. If you're one faction or the other, you should only heal that faction, not both. If you're neutral, then you've chosen no side, and shouldn't participate in healing either...........doing so would choose your side for you. If anything, I'd like to see a small change. Allow civvies to heal anyone, but give it faction status. After a certain amount of heals to a particular faction, you're pushed to that side, regardless of your choice.
Personally, it doesn't affect me much, as the people I want to heal are either fellow rebels, guildies, or just plain friends, all understand the new rules. Just like in wartime, really...........the medics that can heal battle wounds are bound to one side or the other, but docs that can do surgery or fix major problems are generally allowed by both sides, with some exceptions.
Trust me, I wasn't thrilled with it at first, but after a few days playing around, I like what they've done. It's much more realistic. Besides, talking the Hippocratic Oath, that's only applied to full Master Docs (RL), NOT interns, medics, or even ER techs. An intern can refuse to treat a patient for any reason, but a full doc cannot, if he's chosen to follow that path. SWG is simply following that.
MyT_Chicken
Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:38 am
#24
TheAincient wrote:
I mentioned this in another thread.
How about make healing a nutral activity.
In other words, only nutrals can heal, if you are a CM or a doc and you join a fraction you lose your healing ability.
Fractions should be able to hire doctors, but the doctor remains nutral and recives no fractional perks.
Anyway, I'm not sure myself if this is a good idea or not, but I believe the current situation is wrong.
Healing can not be neutral. If it was made so Every healing would drop faction and just run around healing people that are PVPing or PVEing and never get attacked. There is no better way to explain the justification of restricted healing.
Jenya_Malik wrote:
I personally feel this HAS to be changed, I can deal with not buffing em, they know this and I know this, I can deal with no heals, I can even deal with only healing "civvies" and "leavers" what I CAN'T deal with is not being able to rez WHOEVER, WHENEVER.
I became a doc to help people, not to make money (maybe I'm in the minority) lemme share a story with you....
A long time ago in a galaxy far away... SWG: Eclipse
I was standing in the middle of a hardcore Imp town (I am Imp) and about to use the shuttle to go to my won Imp town, when I get a tell
Corpse "can you rez me?"
Corpse "I'm at -**** -****"
I check my map after creating a waypoint for this location 6km away
Me "How long have you been corpsed?"
Corpse "Just Died"
Me "I'll shuttle over to * and be right there"
I purchase a ticket for the closest town, and off I go
I land in this rebel town and immediately call my AV-21 and get a flash across my screen "BANNED"
I ignore this message and keep going to the target
and what do I find when I get there? A rebel corpse, now I try to rez him, but nothin, try it through the inventory(double click rez pack) nothin
now he's getting decay, and I wasted my time AND got banned from a city!
I genuinely wanted to help him out, I didn't care about money or faction, I hate to die, and I like to help others prevent decay etc...
Why can't I at least RP this side of the Doc? now keep in mind that buffing is bugged with the new system yet, so I can buff all the SF rebels I want even faster than anyone else(fire,fire,fire,fire,fire,fire,done - no delays!!!) but I can't rez em?
Look, frankly I don't understand the slightest why I can buff Imperials that are anything exceptOn-Leave. It doesn't make sense to me at all, and personally I think it's stupid. I personally feel that everything we do should have the same restrictions. And as I said to TheAincient above, if we run around, unrestricted, then SOE may as well put TEF's back in the game.
And one more thing...if a person is dumb enough to run around SF without a Doctor on his a$$, he deserves a trip to the cloner. It's really that simple. We are not responsible for people being retards. I understand the ploy of everyone wanting to help people all the time, but it's not realistic. We are in the midst of the GCW, and there are punishments for being stupid and then expecting Doctors to pick up the slack.
Message Edited by MyT_Chicken on 03-11-2005 09:44 AM
Obata
Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:54 am
#25
Twitchie wrote:
As long as your combatant, you can buff anyone.
You don't hve to be a combatant. Anyone can buff anyone.
Jiz
Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:30 pm
#26
A long time ago in a galaxy far away... SWG: Eclipse
I was standing in the middle of a hardcore Imp town (I am Imp) and about to use the shuttle to go to my won Imp town, when I get a tell
Corpse "can you rez me?"
Corpse "I'm at -**** -****"
I check my map after creating a waypoint for this location 6km away
Me "How long have you been corpsed?"
Corpse "Just Died"
Me "I'll shuttle over to * and be right there"
I purchase a ticket for the closest town, and off I go
I land in this rebel town and immediately call my AV-21 and get a flash across my screen "BANNED"
I ignore this message and keep going to the target
and what do I find when I get there? A rebel corpse, now I try to rez him, but nothin, try it through the inventory(double click rez pack) nothin
now he's getting decay, and I wasted my time AND got banned from a city!
I genuinely wanted to help him out, I didn't care about money or faction, I hate to die, and I like to help others prevent decay etc...
Why can't I at least RP this side of the Doc? now keep in mind that buffing is bugged with the new system yet, so I can buff all the SF rebels I want even faster than anyone else(fire,fire,fire,fire,fire,fire,done - no delays!!!) but I can't rez em?
Crap, I don't know how you guys do the 'quote' thing....but I like this story with only one twist...
If you REALLY want to role play this.....being able to communicate when dead...kinda ruins it....I mean....you died....ok...guess what, yer dead....clone, move on....rather then doing a search for a doctor or anyone that can potentially rez you.. beg for an hour to get a rez...i think that's kinda out of role-playing...i don't know..not right.....I get tells all the time from dead people...any popular POI like nightsisters, tusken fort, dathomir in general...."can you rez me?"..i give no response for some time...."I'll pay you X amount of credits..."...when it hits 6 figures...hey...i'm all for it I guess, everybody has a price....I don't know, but I feel like the powers of the rez should be reserved for the doc that is with you and sees you go down....or you are able to make a distress call to a doc BEFORE you die....then the doc now has to try to answer the distress call and save the victim...that'smore like role-playing thatI think would be interesting...but i strongly feel that when you become a corpse...you can do nothing but clone....stick tight and hope someone finds you....or just clone. Maybe the player could have a device made by docs that transmits a distress call when you become a corpse...and any docs within a certain radius or whatever, get a system message.....
Not to flame you in anyway Jenya, I respect all role-players, I do know where you are going with it, yes I've come across a corpse without a /tell and yes I do want to help them regardless of faction or profession. I all I can say as doctors in this dilemma....we need to come up with a fair system to allow what we think is right. with pros and cons stated...the devs might listen to what have to say if it's legitimate, or not........but ...yeah I think I've typed enough....