Doctor Archive
Thread: Can somebody explain Poison B vs Poison C Enhancers (and disease)
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Camofrey
Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:37 pm
#1
I have bought (from Ledao, on Valcyn) 1 crate each of Poison Enhance B, Poison Enhance C, Disease Enhance B, Disease Enhance C.
The B's Seem to have a power and a duration.
The C's Seem to have a power, a duration and an absorption.
In my case the Bs had a much higher power and duration then the C's.
So 2 questions?
1. Whats the difference, Bs appear better but Im guessing they are not
2. Do Bs and Cs stack for use at the same time?
I appreciate any help, Thanks.
The B's Seem to have a power and a duration.
The C's Seem to have a power, a duration and an absorption.
In my case the Bs had a much higher power and duration then the C's.
So 2 questions?
1. Whats the difference, Bs appear better but Im guessing they are not
2. Do Bs and Cs stack for use at the same time?
I appreciate any help, Thanks.
Ledao
Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:52 pm
#2
Thanks for the business. 
To your questions, they do not stack, and they're not exactly better or worse, just different...
Absorption is a percentage reduction in the tick -- so if you have 20 absorption packs, a 1000 point tick would be reduced to 800. This helps, obviously enough, bycausing you to take less damage, but it also means that there's less poison to be cured -- which could be especially helpful if you're using area cures, which don't have the (roughly) 2x modifier on their power...
For absorption, you lose power and duration... The power of the resist pack makes a check against the potency of the poison or disease. I don't know of any real testing of the specifics of the check, but the devs have said that there's always a 5% chance for the DOT to stick. CMs have to experiment quite a bit on potency to get it into the 160+ range (which they must do at the expense of effectiveness...), so I shoot for a bit more than that on the Cs...
At any rate, I could go on, but I'll cut to my feelings on it:
If you're doing group PvP and using area cures, Cs are the way to go. That 20-ish percent reduction in the tick might mean one less time you have to apply the cure. And, of course, with power in the 170s, even 200+ potency poisons are going to be resisted enough of the time to make the CMs angry.
If you're solo-PvPing, then probably Bs. You'd be using single cures, and assuming you're buying 'em from me, someone would have to stack at least 3 venom poisons on you before you'd have to cure twice. Although, Janta Cs are really sweet too, since then you get the power of a B and the absorption of a C (for like 10 times the price, of course).
And PvE... Well... Bs I suppose. But the great benefit is the time that resists make CMs waste. 4 seconds per throw, and rooted to the ground for all of 'em. In PvE there's no similar benefit, since whatever you're fighting probably can't damage you anyway, and may well spam it's DOT attack 200 times over the course of the fight.
And I think that about covers it. Doc Griggs seems to feel somewhat differently than I do about these, so perhaps he'll come along and chime in as well. I haven't done any real combat in... A long time (although I was once a dedicated pvp'er!)... So my feelings are just that, and not based on any testing.
Obata
Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:44 pm
#3
Ledao wrote:
Thanks for the business.
For absorption, you lose power and duration... The power of the resist pack makes a check against the potency of the poison or disease. I don't know of any real testing of the specifics of the check, but the devs have said that there's always a 5% chance for the DOT to stick. CMs have to experiment quite a bit on potency to get it into the 160+ range (which they must do at the expense of effectiveness...), so I shoot for a bit more than that on the Cs...
I don't know about Valcyn specifically, but on any server where half decent tolium gas and class 1 radioactive have spawned, hitting 160 potency doesn't take much experimentation. My potencies come out over 130 with no experimentation. Two or three experimentation points will get me to 160. Of course, most CMs either go all the way for potency (220ish) or leave it alone and go for effectiveness.
All of your points are still valid though.I just wanted to make that one clarification.
Obata
Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:16 am
#4
Yes. The potency of the DOT on the weapon checks against the effectiveness of the resist buff.
Camofrey
Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:05 am
#5
Thanks Ledao,
Its my plan to carry 1 crate of everyusefull med, just to be prepared. But my main use for them is PVE atm, so Ill stick with the Bs until PVP comes my way.
And yes, i did buy you poison cure... and disease cure, and fire blanket, and red, and wound heals, and stims, and buffs, and state cures....... I had quite a shopping spree
Its my plan to carry 1 crate of everyusefull med, just to be prepared. But my main use for them is PVE atm, so Ill stick with the Bs until PVP comes my way.
And yes, i did buy you poison cure... and disease cure, and fire blanket, and red, and wound heals, and stims, and buffs, and state cures....... I had quite a shopping spree
Bermag
Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:21 am
#6
How do you calculate the chance (risk on the recieving end lol) that a poison will stick? Is it something Potency/Poision resist gives you the chance that it sticks or something like that. How about weapons where potency is listed as %, how does that relate to poision resists.
Also do posion buff resist and def vs poison stack or is it two separate rolls?
MataHairy
Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:30 pm
#7
I don't bother making C resist buffs. Someday I'll do a detailed post here, but the short answer is that using the best materials available I can make much better Bs (235 resist/45 min) vs. Cs (223 resist/45min/6% absorption). The 6% absorption is pretty useless, and its not worth it to sacrifice resist strengthand increase the absorption to 20% or so.
Ledao
Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:45 pm
#9
Obata wrote:
I don't know about Valcyn specifically, but on any server where half decent tolium gas and class 1 radioactive have spawned, hitting 160 potency doesn't take much experimentation. My potencies come out over 130 with no experimentation. Two or three experimentation points will get me to 160. Of course, most CMs either go all the way for potency (220ish) or leave it alone and go for effectiveness.
All of your points are still valid though.I just wanted to make that one clarification.
Thanks Obata, that's good stuff to know...
From what I've seen on Valcyn, poisons that weren't experimented for potency at all are around 110. We've only had 1 spawn of tolium with a rating over 800 (it's 50%oq/50%dr, right?), and it was 450+ days ago, so I assume it's in fairly short supply. And I believe our best class 1 is similarly mediocre.
What's the gain like per point spent on potency? 10-15 range?
And, to the poster immediately above: I think Cs are a complete waste of time if you don't experiment them for absorption. You're right -- 6% isn't much, given the sacrifice in power from the gated resources.
Animi
Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:59 pm
#10
Has anyone ever tried applying a C and then overbuffing with a B? Does the absorption stick if you're able to do this? Are you even able to over buff at all?
Ledao
Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:02 pm
#11
As I recall, Bs will buff over Cs due to the higher power, but the absorption goes away.
Marrow1
Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:22 pm
#12
Personally, I dont think even 20% absorption is worth the cost of lower duration and lower effectiveness.
When you look at how long it takes to get a PvP group rolling the short duration can result in a good % of your team loosing thier buff at the wrong time. The additional 15 min or so that a B offers can be a big difference.
Also, the added 25 pts or so in the effectiveness can mean the difference in getting poisoned or not. I would rather push those odds as far into the "not" relm as I can.
Everyone has thier personally preference, mine is max out eff on a B and then spend the rest on duration.
Obata
Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:00 pm
#13
Bermag wrote:
How do you calculate the chance (risk on the recieving end lol) that a poison will stick? Is it something Potency/Poision resist gives you the chance that it sticks or something like that. How about weapons where potency is listed as %, how does that relate to poision resists.
Also do posion buff resist and def vs poison stack or is it two separate rolls?
The buffs add to the resistance modifiers, so it should stack with resistance mods in clothes. I don't think anyone has derived a formula, but we do know that there is always a 5% chance (at least) of resisting and, conversly, a 5% chance of a DoT sticking. It's been obvserved that when the potency and resistance are equal, the DoT will stick half the time. I'm pretty sure that the potency listed on weapons is on the same scale as those on CM packs. The weapons usually have much lower potency, but given that every hit is an attempted application, they will almost certainly get the DoT to stick at some point.
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