Doctor Archive
Thread: About the DevChat Area Cures and Innoculations : Feedback Time, Folks
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vortexala
Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:38 pm
#1
Q - is there any chance of making diseases and poisions so that they do not cause as much damage, were it is at now if you run into a cm your dead plain and simple
A - (justG) There are 2 things we want to fix to counter CM's... inoculations and Area Heals. They are in the works.
A - (justG) There are 2 things we want to fix to counter CM's... inoculations and Area Heals. They are in the works.
Alright folks, with Agent away I figured I should come over to this side and see what you all thought about this. This was a question and an answer given during the Dev Chat.
Innoculations and Area Cures are something we've all thought about and discussed a lot in the past. I know a lot of folks think any Area Cure should go to CMs(as the Ranged/Area healing specialists).A lot of folks thinkCMsshould alsoget a piece of the action regarding the Innoculations.
So, if the devs ask whoshould get it,I want to give them the Doctor point of View on this issue as well as the CM side.
So, Docs...
- How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
- How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
- And finally... Why shouldDocs get any of it over Combat Medics?
To Roustabout, sorry for taking your thread idea, but wanted to keep it allwith the same format
Leafthemedic
Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:59 pm
#2
In keeping with the way the two elite medical professions are set up I would think it makes sense to have doctors be able topreform aninnoculation of adisease/poison to provide a percentage chanceof resistance. The effect could last 10 to 45 minutes and offer a percentage chanceof protection and durationthat would vary based on the quality of the crafted med.
For an area cure I would think that would be in the relm of the combat medic, however the chance of a cure would be much less than a doctors cure of disease/poison. I base this on the fact that we doc's inject a needle with the cure and deliver the med directly to the bloodstream, while the combat medic flings the cure in the air and is subject to enviromental effects like wind/rain and such and thus should have a lower chance at a cure.
Took Alot
Master Doctor/Pistoleer on tc1
Houdani
Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:07 pm
#3
I would like to see Innoculations (temporary immunity/reduction) AND Area Cures (not thrown, but point blank)granted to Doctors.
- These should appropriate strength to counter a good, non-spider poison/disease.
- If the Innoculation is an immunity to antimeds, then the duration should be somewhat short (10-20 minutes).
- If the Innoculation is an antimed reducer, then the duration should be longer, possibly as long as a buff.
- I would vote for one new sub-component to go along with the obligatory ABEC and ACRDM.
- This new component would be a Doctor orMedicschematic and require a new resource which is not currently collected by Doctors -- preferrably a resource that can be collected with harvestors.
- Alternately, the new component could be one of the CM components -- for a bit ofcross profession interdependency.
The strength of the cure should be comparable to a Doctor's cure packs.These cure packs are instantaneous use.The new cures should require one new sub-component which requires a new, non-rare resource which CM's do not current collect.
The reason Doctors should be giventhese new meds is simply because CMs need to be countered by some OTHER profession than themselves.
Thanks for the opportunity to be heard, Vortexala.
H.
EDIT: Changed the duration of Innoculations depending on whether theygrant immunity or act as reducers.
EDIT: Revoked my vote for giving the cure ability to CMs ... because curing is a Doctor thing and if you give that ability to CMs, then you should give Docs a couple of theCM skills.
Message Edited by Houdani on 07-15-2004 09:31 PM
Message Edited by Houdani on 07-26-2004 08:50 PM
MasterNerfSlayer
Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:15 pm
#4
I'm also of the same opinion as leafthemedicthat innoculations should be a doc thing with a duration componentanda fairly short timer maybe 10-20 mins max, possibly with a resist chance and effectiveness (indicating a % reduction to the applied dot if you fail to make"saving throw" asD&D would putit).
Area cures being a combat medic thing, with a lower chance to cure or a weaker cure itself. Innoculations should be a short duration to prevent removing combat medics from the equation entirely.A complete role reversal from CMs being FotMto CM's being worthless is not what we want.
As for crafting, the innoculations should be inline with the cure, in that it should need BECs, CRDMs and LSs..
Roustabout
Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:24 pm
#5
vortexala wrote:
Q - is there any chance of making diseases and poisions so that they do not cause as much damage, were it is at now if you run into a cm your dead plain and simple
A - (justG) There are 2 things we want to fix to counter CM's... inoculations and Area Heals. They are in the works.
Alright folks, with Agent away I figured I should come over to this side and see what you all thought about this. This was a question and an answer given during the Dev Chat.
Innoculations and Area Cures are something we've all thought about and discussed a lot in the past. I know a lot of folks think any Area Cure should go to CMs(as the Ranged/Area healing specialists).A lot of folks thinkCMsshould alsoget a piece of the action regarding the Innoculations.
So, if the devs ask whoshould get it,I want to give them the Doctor point of View on this issue as well as the CM side.
So, Docs...
- How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
- How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
- And finally... Why shouldDocs get any of it over Combat Medics?
To Roustabout, sorry for taking your thread idea, but wanted to keep it allwith the same format
No worries.
1. I believe innoculations should be at the 2-x-x-x level of the doctor tree. Reason being that it stands to reason that preventing a disease is easier to do than actually fighting it while it is in the body. This should be an exclusive doctor ability. Doctors would craft the innoculation unit. It should be about 5 minute base with experimentation up to no longer than 15 minutes (maybe even 10). I think resource requirements should be in line with whatever the requirements for a poisonare (forgive my lack of knowledge about CM's). If they require 2 or 3 named resources then we should also have to provide these are we are effectively hurting one of their main moneymakers and also one of their main attacks. Innoculations should be maybe an A, B, and C like disease and poison packs are currently. I guess the higher the level the greater dmg reduced (with a cap of about 35% tops perhaps) and greater the time it lasts.
2. Area cures I believe should be two fold. One a doctor should have to provide some sort of named resource requiring anti-virus unit or something of that nature...perhaps even a poison or disease cure pack. The CM would then insert it into a schematic (possibly with lower resource requirements than their poisons since the doctor has provided the cure pack) and make the area cure.It should be less powerful than the direct application of a doctor cure pack.
I would concede that if it is less powerful than a doc's cure pack then them not needing a doctor would be agreeable. It should definitely be that they need more doses than our medicine since we specialize in the disease and cure healing.
3. I think inoculations by their definition are clearly for doctors. It is a pre-battle medicine much like a buff. As I've stated the area heals would be acceptable to be CM only if they were not as powerful as doctor heals. Perhaps even allowing a doctor cure pack to be inserted as an extra (like a scope for WS) could help tie the classes together (this inserted pack of course would make the cure more powerful than a standard CM made cure).
A step in the right direction all around to be sure.
Message Edited by Roustabout on 07-15-2004 11:25 PM
Houdani
Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:41 pm
#6
I hear what y'all are saying about short duration on the Innoculation ... but I fear that if it's too short, the Innoculation would be lost before the Combatant got to the battlefield. The duration has to be at least long enough for a party to get outfitted before the mad dash to the battle.
Consumable items, such as foodand drink, should be relatively short ... but needles should last a bit longer.
H.
TheWhiteRaider
Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:56 pm
#7
I think that.....
The vacine should not completely stop the poison, but make it some what weaker. It should reduce poison by X% for so many poisons. It shouldn't be more than 75% reduction with realy good stuff. I would say 50% should be the average.
Docs should realy have the area poison cures. No offence CMs.
TenshiHanaKinu
Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:58 pm
#8
vortexala wrote:
Q - is there any chance of making diseases and poisions so that they do not cause as much damage, were it is at now if you run into a cm your dead plain and simple
A - (justG) There are 2 things we want to fix to counter CM's... inoculations and Area Heals. They are in the works.
Alright folks, with Agent away I figured I should come over to this side and see what you all thought about this. This was a question and an answer given during the Dev Chat.
Innoculations and Area Cures are something we've all thought about and discussed a lot in the past. I know a lot of folks think any Area Cure should go to CMs(as the Ranged/Area healing specialists).A lot of folks thinkCMsshould alsoget a piece of the action regarding the Innoculations.
So, if the devs ask whoshould get it,I want to give them the Doctor point of View on this issue as well as the CM side.
So, Docs...
- How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
I'm of the opinion they should be like Buffs. But let's not have some exotic resource requirement here. I also think that this should be Master Doctor cert, why, because we need more incentive to have Master Doctors. Too common right now is the 4040 Doctor Dabbler that can cure all diseases, poisons, and statesand leaves the person capable of mowing through armies of other players.
- How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
Again, DEFINITELY this should be a Master Doctor cert. More MD's on the field. Too many dabblers. This will cut down on the 'elite' combattants and make them 'take one for the team'. I think the resource requirements should just be very hefty versions of the current Poison & Disease cures, and that you can experiment for range and power.
Now, what I believe is different from the others in this thread. I do NOT see this as a Combat Medic feature AT ALL. Why? It's very simple. Combat Medics do not have /curePoison and /cureDisease. These are inheritly Doctor skills. If you give this to Combat Medic, you, in essence, give CM's everything but the ability to buff & revive. What's the point of being a Doctor, then, except to take that one tree?
Some of you say, "Well Combat Medics should have the ranged AoE's". Fine, Don't make it a ranged stim. Lord knows we've had enough of 96m Combat Medic tosses, we don't need that garbage floating over to Doctor. Rather, I think it should be a point blank Area Cure. That is, it heals within a small radius of the doctor's current position. Like /pointblankarea1 for Pistoleer (since pointblankarea2 doesn't work.). This makes a doctor's position on the battlefield pivotal to combat success, and while a Combat Medic can toss from out of the line of fire, a Doctor has to dive into the fray and release the stim to affect allies.
So in the end, there's no throwing (which we have decided is Combat Medic specialty) and the Combat Medics don't geta Doctor skill. Right now Doctors are one of the only "combat" professions without an AoE. EVERY other Combat profession has one in some way or another. It's Doc's turn.
- And finally... Why shouldDocs get any of it over Combat Medics?
Because Combat Medics can't /curePoison and can't /cureDisease. If' it's implemented as above, it's a fair compromise to the two. Combat medics issue AoE poo, Doctors issue AoE cure-poo.
Doctors and Combat Medics are supposed to be antitheses of one another. If you give CM's AoE Poo Cure, that means that you need to counter a CM with a CM... where you should counter a CM with a Doctor. The ratio should be 1:1. Right now it isn't.
OMGStarsiderisdownagain
Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:10 pm
#9
Give doctors the innoculations, make them only available to master docs, aka 98 med use, have them on a timer like a buff and have a base bonus to resist poison/disease, maxing out at +100 resist poison/disease. Make them really a pain in the arse to craft, but even if you do get poisoned/diseased, you only take 25% damage.
As for area cures, make them Master Combat Medic usuable only by having a really high med use, and do them exactly like doc cure poison/disease but with an AoE effect like ranged stim's.
You guys wouldn't ever have to change anything ever again with CM's, and this would balance out the system.
I really really hate uber solo template dabblers so def make it so that only masters of each prof could use them.
Real simple solution, and prolly too simple for the devs to bother using, but hopefully someone will give a rats ass and my voice will be heard..
Syn Hun'atar MD <CFM>
Master doctor since July 12th, 2003
cheserna
Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:15 pm
#10
well I'm not going to go crazy with an anti-cm post, but given how long the combat medic has stood on top of the PvP realm, I'd actually liked to see the innoculations lower their level of dominance to the level of another long forgotten "support class", the creature handler.... but with that I'll answer your question:
innoculations: master doctor only, top of the line being 15-20minutes, 80-90% decrease in poison or disease strength
(and yes that will cripple combat medics.. but DOT's cripple PvP.. anyone who can't see that is either a combat medic, a pikeman, a lier, or someone who doesn't PvP)
area cures: master combat medic, I'd say half the strength of a doctor's cure since it's being applyed to so many so quickly
innoculations: master doctor only, top of the line being 15-20minutes, 80-90% decrease in poison or disease strength
(and yes that will cripple combat medics.. but DOT's cripple PvP.. anyone who can't see that is either a combat medic, a pikeman, a lier, or someone who doesn't PvP)
area cures: master combat medic, I'd say half the strength of a doctor's cure since it's being applyed to so many so quickly
TenshiHanaKinu
Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:16 pm
#11
Yes, let's give CM's a Doctor Skill. THAT'll really balance out the CM / Doctor issue.
MasterNerfSlayer
Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:22 pm
#12
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Yes, let's give CM's a Doctor Skill. THAT'll really balance out the CM / Doctor issue.
And just what are you referring to?
TenshiHanaKinu
Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:26 pm
#13
MasterNerfSlayer wrote:
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Yes, let's give CM's a Doctor Skill. THAT'll really balance out the CM / Doctor issue.
And just what are you referring to?
/curepoison
/curedisease
You can't use an item without having the skill to use it. I can get a Master CM's Area Poo. Can't toss it without /applyPoison ? I can have buff packs but I can't use themunless I have /enhanceattribute.
So, how do you expect to give CM's an AoE Poison cure WITHOUT giving them Doctor 2000 and Doctor 4000 ?
---
What I'm trying to say is that Doctors COUNTER Combat Medics. You want to Heal Poisons, you go Doctor. You wanna dish them out, go Combat Medic. It should not be, "Hey, what's the point of going Doctor. The only thing they can do that CM's can't is Buff & Revive". Might as well only be 0440 Doctor. No balance.
It just simply shouldn't be thrown. Keep Doctors from getting something that is CM only (throwing) out of the hands of doctors. Keep something that is Doctor only (Curing Poo) out of the hands of CM's.
Each class has their own role on the battlefield. Right now you're trying to make one class have more of a role than another. That's why we have Riflemen beating up on everyone else Point blank, Mid Range, and at Max Range (pet peeve, sorry).
---
Then there's the Mind Stim I am hearing about. Well to my knowledge it goes under Medic, but Doctors will be most proficient with it. Well, CM's have a 0-delay Mind heal. They don't need to be gods with it.
I'm just saying. Balance.
Message Edited by TenshiHanaKinu on 07-16-2004 01:47 AM
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